Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

[mdb_talon]

I suspect that Vibrant is simply a form of carbon dosing considering it has vinegar in it.

But the tests that analyze what is in it indicate that is not the case. In my mind whether it actually has bacteria, carbon sources, amino acids, etc is all irrelevant if the test show that it is largely composed of algaecide and UWC has been dishonest about it. I mean if I took a strong antibacterial like chemiclean and bottled it with some bacteria and sold it as a magic bacteria to eliminate cyano that would be pretty darn dishonest.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

See the old thread. Also per their actual claim they have stated that there’s no bacteria in the product as they filter it out and only leave the byproduct. ( this isn’t true either since it is clearly just algae fix but by their own admission you will never find bacteria).

That filter is what gets me. I am in no way smart in this subject.

How would one filter bacteria out, leave a byproduct, but not leave any spores. Correct me if I am wrong in that, but isnt some bottled bac spores and not active/live bacteria? Wouldnt the filter have to very very "fine". Would that process not be expensive? How do they control it to make sure nohting gets past via containination?

You see where I am going here. Not being "sciency" at all, it just seems way far fetched that all of this could actually be done without some serious equipment being needed.

I could be wrong, and probably am lol, but my mind is now turning, as I am off work and have switched from coffee to a more clear liquid.

 

[Atrumblood]

But the tests that analyze what is in it indicate that is not the case. In my mind whether it actually has bacteria, carbon sources, amino acids, etc is all irrelevant if the test show that it is largely composed of algaecide and UWC has been dishonest about it. I mean if I took a strong antibacterial like chemiclean and bottled it with some bacteria and sold it as a magic bacteria to eliminate cyano that would be pretty darn dishonest.

Yep, I admit I didn't read that post before making my own statements.

That is interesting that the bottle states that it contains vinegar and bacteria when there is in fact none in there.

The NMR results are certainly compelling.

 

[Atrumblood]

Just read the linked thread in the first post. There is no carbon source and there is zero bacteria found in Vibrant. It is rebranded API AlgaeFix at twice the cost.

No problem using an algaecide if you so choose. Just know that is what you are using. Then go save some money and buy AlgaeFix instead.

Yea I admit I didn't read that post. I just finished it now though and as a result, I am rethinking my choice to use Vibrant.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Then would Poly Filter also work.

I don't want to suggest so because I'm not sure. I'm a chemist in amateur nature only. I would defer to Randy Holmes Farley or someone with a better grasp on the chemical nature of the quat algaecide. My gut says something like chemipure blue would be a good bet if you want additional safeguards. It contains carbon and DI resin. If you don't normally use it monitor your nutrients. Beyond that I don't feel comfortable speculating how much would be removed.

 

[Atrumblood]

That filter is what gets me. I am in no way smart in this subject.

How would one filter bacteria out, leave a byproduct, but not leave any spores. Correct me if I am wrong in that, but isnt some bottled bac spores and not active/live bacteria? Wouldnt the filter have to very very "fine". Would that process not be expensive? How do they control it to make sure nohting gets past via containination?

You see where I am going here. Not being "sciency" at all, it just seems way far fetched that all of this could actually be done without some serious equipment being needed.

I could be wrong, and probably am lol, but my mind is now turning, as I am off work and have switched from coffee to a more clear liquid.

It is 100% possible to filter out bacteria. We do it all the time in the lab I work at. We use filter membranes that have a pore size of 0.45 micro meters. The average size of a bactierium is about 2 micro metres.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Does vibrant by any chance kill coraline algae

In my experience, it retards its growth and definitely robs it of color. It takes a long time to pummel the coraline down but it's possible.

 

[Wasabiroot]

It works because bubble algae is an algae and Vibrant is an algaecide?

Can I just say, if I came across as snarky I meant no disrespect. One thing I like about this hobby is it's constantly challenging our knowledge from curious minds. Great work @taricha and thanks @Randy Holmes-Farley for using your platform to promote honesty in the products we use. Happy reefing indeed.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

It is 100% possible to filter out bacteria. We do it all the time in the lab I work at. We use filter membranes that have a pore size of 0.45 micro meters. The average size of a bactierium is about 2 micro metres.

What about spores though? Would those not be smaller than the living bacteria? Provided this special bacteria has spores?

Also, How do you ensure no contamination? I get a lab can do it, but as much as Vibrant was selling out in the past, that would be a big lab, would it not? What about bottling? How do they prevent bacteria from entering there? Clean facility?

The cost to do all of this, the facility needed, the amount sold, I just cannot see how the price it is sold at would pay for all of that.

Again, I may be wrong in this, but just trying to understand what is actually needed to get all form of bacteria out of the equation.

 

[BanjoBandito]

BRS was one of the last major retailers to pick it up and sell it. They were very hesitant to bring it in. Don't let the facts get in the way though...

They literally did an investigates on it and showed it work. Where exactly did they go wrong? Because they believed a manufacturer? Might as well take 99% of the items off their site right now. I mean we are all trusting what manufacturers tell us is in their products. This goes for everyday life too, not just our hobby.

It’s just a joke. BRS still owes me a 401k contribution. I occasionally think I’m funny.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

It is 100% possible to filter out bacteria. We do it all the time in the lab I work at. We use filter membranes that have a pore size of 0.45 micro meters. The average size of a bactierium is about 2 micro metres.

So if bacterium is two micrometers, wouldn't the spores get through and create new bacterium?

 

[a.t.t.r]

Oh it

That filter is what gets me. I am in no way smart in this subject.

How would one filter bacteria out, leave a byproduct, but not leave any spores. Correct me if I am wrong in that, but isnt some bottled bac spores and not active/live bacteria? Wouldnt the filter have to very very "fine". Would that process not be expensive? How do they control it to make sure nohting gets past via containination?

You see where I am going here. Not being "sciency" at all, it just seems way far fetched that all of this could actually be done without some serious equipment being needed.

I could be wrong, and probably am lol, but my mind is now turning, as I am off work and have switched from coffee to a more clear liquid.

It is all far fetched. The response has continuously been pushing the goal post or coming up with excuses why the test are the way they are.

 

[Atrumblood]

What about spores though? Would those not be smaller than the living bacteria? Provided this special bacteria has spores?

Also, How do you ensure no contamination? I get a lab can do it, but as much as Vibrant was selling out in the past, that would be a big lab, would it not? What about bottling? How do they prevent bacteria from entering there? Clean facility?

The cost to do all of this, the facility needed, the amount sold, I just cannot see how the price it is sold at would pay for all of that.

Again, I may be wrong in this, but just trying to understand what is actually needed to get all form of bacteria out of the equation.

The average bacterium spore size is 0.8–1.2 micro meters in size. So pretty much everything but molecules are filtered out.

 

[a.t.t.r]

So if bacterium is two micrometers, wouldn't the spores get through and create new bacterium?

If there were spores it would be very few as they did not impact the nmr at all.
So let’s assume they do add some special magic spores. They also claimed they do not reproduce in saltwater so in order for those spores to do anything they would have to be a measurable quantity.
None of that is the case.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

If there were spores it would be very few as they did not impact the nmr at all.
So let’s assume they do add some special magic spores. They also claimed they do not reproduce in saltwater so in order for those spores to do anything they would have to be a measurable quantity.
None of that is the case.

They also claim it's not an algaecide right,?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

The average bacterium spore size is 0.8–1.2 micro meters in size. So pretty much everything but molecules are filtered out.

So, that coincides with the testing showing no bacteria is present at all.

Yet, UWC says right in their ingredients "Cultured Bacteria Blend".

The testing shows same as AlgaeFix when ran through a NMR (think that is what it was called)

Previous testing of QUATS (again, thinks thats what they were) shows the same as AlageFix

So in order to wrap my head around this, all that is left is the below.

UWC stated they used a byproduct of the bacteria. What possible byproduct could that be? An enzyme, a protein, etc?

What would it take to filter that out? Would it be filtered out by any of the previous ones to remove spores and live bacteria?

 

[Cell]

I believe UWC's claim is that the product they are selling is the byproduct of bacteria and so it's a naturally produced algaecide.

 

[LRT]

I doubt they knew

I've watched way to many videos of those 2 reef loving BRS hippies to think any different haha
Seriously though I look at BRS like I see Ace hardware selling paint. Distributors rely on the information being provided by manufacturers. Not sure if it would be reasonable to ask them to run lab tests on all the products they sell. But I wouldn't be surprised if they do have tighter control moving forward to make sure something like this doesn't happen again.

 

[Cell]

BRS isn't the offender here, UWC is.

 

[Jekyl]

@Bulk Reef Supply
Maybe they can chime in on the subject?