Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

Atrumblood

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So, that coincides with the testing showing no bacteria is present at all.

Yet, UWC says right in their ingredients "Cultured Bacteria Blend".

The testing shows same as AlgaeFix when ran through a NMR (think that is what it was called)

Previous testing of QUATS (again, thinks thats what they were) shows the same as AlageFix

So in order to wrap my head around this, all that is left is the below.

UWC stated they used a byproduct of the bacteria. What possible byproduct could that be? An enzyme, a protein, etc?

What would it take to filter that out? Would it be filtered out by any of the previous ones to remove spores and live bacteria?
The byproducts are going to likely be as you have stated proteins and enzymes as these are all much smaller than the bacteria that produced them. To remove those things you would likely need to use a charged vehicle that would bind to said proteins and enzymes and then filter them off as a larger aggregate of molecules.
 

trevorhiller

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It is 100% possible to filter out bacteria. We do it all the time in the lab I work at. We use filter membranes that have a pore size of 0.45 micro meters. The average size of a bactierium is about 2 micro metres.
This is true. We use 0.22 micron bacterial filters in the hospital on IV fluids that are prone to growing bacteria.
 

Eagle_Steve

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The byproducts are going to likely be as you have stated proteins and enzymes as these are all much smaller than the bacteria that produced them. To remove those things you would likely need to use a charged vehicle that would bind to said proteins and enzymes and then filter them off as a larger aggregate of molecules.
But those would react in the NMR (again I think I cam calling it the correct thing lol)? My understanding was anything even slightly organic would make it go haywire.
 

Atrumblood

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But those would react in the NMR (again I think I cam calling it the correct thing lol)? My understanding was anything even slightly organic would make it go haywire.

Nah, it wouldn't make it go haywire, but it would produce a lot of mixed signals as proteins and enzymes are gigantic in molecular terms with lots of hydrogen and carbon bonds to make peaks in the graph. NMR or nuclear magnetic resonance (same tech they use to do a brain scan. MRI anyone?) usually requires pretty pure samples to get usable data. The fact that the NMR is so clean means that there isn't likely to be much if any of those things in the samples they ran.

I am by no means an expert in NMR however. I am sure someone out there with an advanced degree could explain things better.
 

Eagle_Steve

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Nah, it wouldn't make it go haywire, but it would produce a lot of mixed signals as proteins and enzymes are gigantic in molecular terms with lots of hydrogen and carbon bonds to make peaks in the graph. NMR or nuclear magnetic resonance (same tech they use to do a brain scan. MRI anyone?) usually requires pretty pure samples to get usable data. The fact that the NMR is so clean means that there isn't likely to be much if any of those things in the samples they ran.

I am by no means an expert in NMR however. I am sure someone out there with an advanced degree could explain things better.
Thanks for explaining it though. If this was related to transmission rates of copper or fiber and you needing a full network built for you massive global company, I would be all up in it lol.

I am just looking to actually understand all that has been done and how it stacks up. For giggles, I was thinking of throwing some small tanks up, dosing Vibrant, algaefix, nothing and some bottle bac to see how each tank reacts and report on it. Looks like the bottle bac can be taken out and just do 3 tanks. Easy for me to do, as I have 3 tanks, spare macro, triplicates (if not more) of all equipment and lights.

More just to feed my curiosity into this than anything, but would at least add another data point.
 

Atrumblood

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Thanks for explaining it though. If this was related to transmission rates of copper or fiber and you needing a full network built for you massive global company, I would be all up in it lol.

I am just looking to actually understand all that has been done and how it stacks up. For giggles, I was thinking of throwing some small tanks up, dosing Vibrant, algaefix, nothing and some bottle bac to see how each tank reacts and report on it. Looks like the bottle bac can be taken out and just do 3 tanks. Easy for me to do, as I have 3 tanks, spare macro, triplicates (if not more) of all equipment and lights.

More just to feed my curiosity into this than anything, but would at least add another data point.
Indeed. More data points = more better
 

mdb_talon

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I have created a solution that will reverse the vibrant you've added. It's 0% bacteria, 0% vinegar, 0% rodi water, 0% amino acids and 100% B. S. Low low price of $30.00

Only worth the $30 if you started with bacteria but then did something to strain it all out.
 

jda

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This is an actual post from UWC in a response after I posted that it had no bacteria and was an algaecide. Nobody can make sense out of this... it is just stupid to try. They flat out say that it has flash frozen bacteria. It does not multiply in our tanks but you can culture it.

When people started to check for the bacteria, that is when the narrative switched to enzymes... but it cannot be more clear below that they said flash frozen bacteria, right?

I just want to caution that anybody who tried to come up with a reason why they might be telling the truth has looked a fool so far.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this as I already have once before, but I will say you are spreading a lot of false information and I have seen you do it multiple times across the forum.

There is a shelf life, three years. The bacteria are processed by flash freezing and are dormant. They are not live bacteria and because of the way they are processed for bottling, they bottles can have a long shelf life. They are processed this way to be able to handle extreme high and low temperatures throughout the year.

It does not multiply in our tanks and does need to be added in increments, this is standard for many bacterial products ( AF, Probidio, Zeovit, Brightwells, Red Sea, Etc. just to name a few ).

You can find it under a microscope, You just need the right gear. This is not some brown gunky type, stinky bacteria that most people think of when they they think of bottled bacteria. I never said anything to you about culturing in our tanks, what I did say to you was, culture the bacteria and see what you end up with. This will give you a better idea of what bacteria strains are present. A few people have studied Vibrant pretty extensively and there are videos on YouTube showing the cultures, etc. Jason2459 Did some pretty extensive studies with it here on R2R in his biology thread with videos, etc. as well.

As for the dosing instructions, 1ml times x amount whether it be 10 gallons or 25 gallons is pretty much the gold standard for aquarium additives and dosages. As for snails and urchins dieing, that is just not true from Vibrant. What can cause snails and urchins to die are toxic strains of dino die off or the release of heavy metals, toxins, etc. being released into the water as the algaes are being consumed. This is like a one and ten thousand usage case, far from common.

I would love to see these essays if you would be so kind to put me into touch with this gentlemen :)

 

LRT

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@Bulk Reef Supply
Maybe they can chime in on the subject?

I'm sure they will once this all gets sorted out.

UWC did contact me just now. Once I understand better what they are proposing, I'll report back here what I can.

FWIW, I suggested the key experiment is, IMO, the NMR. If that reproduces, the game is over. If not, then there's some confusion to understand.

That is a possible interpretation, and there certainly are bacterial algaecides, but if the NMR is accurate, it is not a bacterial product. That material is not a natural product produced by any bacteria. Perhaps they were told that by a supplier, but that's random speculation.
 

Haacheew

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First and foremost, dishonesty is bad, either from the moral or legal standpoint. Moral dishonesty and the product efficacy against gha/bubble algae are different subjects to me. You can far cry or boycott all you want.

Vibrant DOES help me clean up green hair, bubble algae and no side of effect of that I aware in my mixed reef tank, besides destroying my chaetos (it was my fault for I forgot to remove it before dosing). Have been using it for more than 2 years. As long as it gets the job done, I personally don't care its algaecide, snake oil, voodoo magic, or whatever. It works and that's all it matters. I will keep using it when the time calls for.

Btw, coralline algae grows fine in my tank during all these Vibrant applications, just you know.
 

Eagle_Steve

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First and foremost, dishonesty is bad, either from the moral or legal standpoint. Moral dishonesty and the product efficacy against gha/bubble algae are different subjects to me. You can far cry or boycott all you want.

Vibrant DOES help me clean up green hair, bubble algae and no side of effect of that I aware in my mixed reef tank, besides destroying my chaetos (it was my fault for I forgot to remove it before dosing). Have been using it for more than 2 years. As long as it gets the job done, I personally don't care its algaecide, snake oil, voodoo magic, or whatever. It works and that's all it matters. I will keep using it when the time calls for.

Btw, coralline algae grows fine in my tank during all these Vibrant applications, just you know.
That is awesome it works for you with no ill effects.

It is also you're right not to care, but it is also our right to care. So we have to agree to disagree here. They lied to us, or at least it looks that way. Some used it as it was not "chemical" and they like a natural approach, but turns out it looks not to be. Its cool you do not care about it possibly being a chemical. But I care, as do others.

End of day, they lied to customer, possibly broke numerous federal laws and all we want is the actual truth. Doesn't seem like too much to ask here.

I see the fact that people were possibly lied to, the story changed, no reply from them after they stated they would, is just shady and not what this hobby needs.

But again to each their own and am truely happy it works for you and has not had any ill effects.
 

GARRIGA

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First and foremost, dishonesty is bad, either from the moral or legal standpoint. Moral dishonesty and the product efficacy against gha/bubble algae are different subjects to me. You can far cry or boycott all you want.

Vibrant DOES help me clean up green hair, bubble algae and no side of effect of that I aware in my mixed reef tank, besides destroying my chaetos (it was my fault for I forgot to remove it before dosing). Have been using it for more than 2 years. As long as it gets the job done, I personally don't care its algaecide, snake oil, voodoo magic, or whatever. It works and that's all it matters. I will keep using it when the time calls for.

Btw, coralline algae grows fine in my tank during all these Vibrant applications, just you know.
If it’s AlgaeFix with new labeling then wouldn’t one save half and go API? I believe that’s part of the issue. Not just that a manufacturer lied but that they are charging double for the same product.
 

lion king

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After my experience, this is what I thought. I would never have used an algaeside in my lion's tank. If you read through my thread, you can see I never got any of the vibrant advocates to engage in a conversation.

 

Sean Clark

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After my experience, this is what I thought. I would never have used an algaeside in my lion's tank. If you read through my thread, you can see I never got any of the vibrant advocates to engage in a conversation.

You basically spelled this out in 2020.
 

Doctorgori

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not to take advantage of this terrible situation, and before things implode, I can refill your old bottles for a mere pittance :rolleyes:
 

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Sean Clark

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not to take advantage of this terrible situation, and before things implode, I can refill your old bottles for a mere pittance :rolleyes:
Hey now. I am trying to sell my skimmate. Too many chefs in the kitchen.
 

Making themselves at home: Have you intentionally done anything in your aquarium to enhance the natural behavior of your fish?

  • I planned my tank to encourage natural fish behavior.

    Votes: 27 26.0%
  • I did some things to encourage natural fish behavior.

    Votes: 37 35.6%
  • Anything that encourages natural fish behavior was a byproduct of the aquascaping.

    Votes: 18 17.3%
  • I did not do anything to encourage natural fish behavior.

    Votes: 19 18.3%
  • Other.

    Votes: 3 2.9%
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