What am I doing wrong?

[Joe Batt]

Hi All

I have a Red Sea Reefer 350 and its been running around 2 years. I feel like I have a good grasp of what I should be doing and how to deal with most common situations but I am struggling to get my reef to take off. The corals dont show great colour and grow very slowly if at all.

I am pretty dedicated to the task of keeping the reef and I am a person who likes to understand what he is doing and do it well. I am a bit OCD with anything like this and as such I have taken great care with the reef.

My parameters are
Salinity 1.026
Temp 25.6-26.2 C

Ca 430-445 (variation around 5 a day maximum, with Salifert, tested daily)
Kh 9.2dKh (variation around 0.1 dKh per day maximum, with Hanna, tested daily)
Mg 1300-1350 (tested weekly)
---I dose 24/7 using DOS for Ca, Kh, Mg

No3 steady at 2ppm
Po4 steady 0.03
---I dose Nopox at 3.4ml per day for No3 and Po4 control

My water is from RoDi unit with canisters last changed 6 weeks ago and Di resin same time. Water tests at 0TDS

My flow is via 2x Gyres and the total flow is approx 35x volume.

Lighting is 2x Hydra 52HD with a photoperiod of ramp up 9:30-13:00 peak with respiration cycles till 18:30 and a slow ramp down till off around 22:30. I supplement with 2x T5 between 11:00 and 19:00. PAR at the peak at the top of the rocks is 275 and at the bottom of the tank around 175.

The tank is stocked with 8 fish around 4-6 inches each (very healthy) and various inverts.
They are fed in the morning with 1 cube of defrosted, drained mysis and in the evening with a good pinch of fish pellets. I also put a seaweed clip in the tank in the afternoon for 20 mins.

The corals are fed with 5ml of both Reef Energy A&B pretty much daily and once or twice a week with Reef Roids.

Weekly cleaning, and vacuuming the shallow sand, plus turkey basting the rocks to get rid of any sediment. Bi weekly 10% water changes. All done without fail on schedule.

Any tips as to where I might be going wrong? I put a lot of effort into my tank and have done for 2 years with not great results.One thing I seem to not have a problem with is algae, scrape the glass every few days but that's normal. The most annoying thing is I know friends who seem to do nothing to their tanks and have amazing growth and colour even though their levels are off when I have tested their water.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Hi All

I have a Red Sea Reefer 350 and its been running around 2 years. I feel like I have a good grasp of what I should be doing and how to deal with most common situations but I am struggling to get my reef to take off. The corals dont show great colour and grow very slowly if at all.

I am pretty dedicated to the task of keeping the reef and I am a person who likes to understand what he is doing and do it well. I am a bit OCD with anything like this and as such I have taken great care with the reef.

My parameters are
Salinity 1.026
Temp 25.6-26.2 C

Ca 430-445 (variation around 5 a day maximum, with Salifert, tested daily)
Kh 9.2dKh (variation around 0.1 dKh per day maximum, with Hanna, tested daily)
Mg 1300-1350 (tested weekly)
---I dose 24/7 using DOS for Ca, Kh, Mg

No3 steady at 2ppm
Po4 steady 0.03
---I dose Nopox at 3.4ml per day for No3 and Po4 control

My water is from RoDi unit with canisters last changed 6 weeks ago and Di resin same time. Water tests at 0TDS

My flow is via 2x Gyres and the total flow is approx 35x volume.

Lighting is 2x Hydra 52HD with a photoperiod of ramp up 9:30-13:00 peak with respiration cycles till 18:30 and a slow ramp down till off around 22:30. I supplement with 2x T5 between 11:00 and 19:00. PAR at the peak at the top of the rocks is 275 and at the bottom of the tank around 175.

The tank is stocked with 8 fish around 4-6 inches each (very healthy) and various inverts.
They are fed in the morning with 1 cube of defrosted, drained mysis and in the evening with a good pinch of fish pellets. I also put a seaweed clip in the tank in the afternoon for 20 mins.

The corals are fed with 5ml of both Reef Energy A&B pretty much daily and once or twice a week with Reef Roids.

Weekly cleaning, and vacuuming the shallow sand, plus turkey basting the rocks to get rid of any sediment. Bi weekly 10% water changes. All done without fail on schedule.

Any tips as to where I might be going wrong? I put a lot of effort into my tank and have done for 2 years with not great results.One thing I seem to not have a problem with is algae, scrape the glass every few days but that's normal. The most annoying thing is I know friends who seem to do nothing to their tanks and have amazing growth and colour even though their levels are off when I have tested their water.

Just a thought and I must admit I've not experienced it myself, but the salifert po4 test reckons that a po4 reading of over 0.025 can inhibit calcification in corals... might be worth getting them down a bit and seeing if that makes a difference?

 

[Jeremy Luke]

Are 2 hydras enough for a 4 for long tank?

When I was thinking about LED again for my new build I was told I needed 3 52s for my 4' tank.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Oh, and maybe let it get a little dirty :)

We all like it dirty every now and then ;)

In all seriousness, my DT is pretty clean, but my sump is filthy. I'm an advocate of the natural way, part of that is to let stuff get dirty...

Ease off the turkey basting, don't clean the sump out and if you can, do a decent 30 or 40% WC using NSW. Honestly, it's made a massive difference to my corals... sps (only montis, granted) are growing solid at about a half inch per month now. Like you, it was much less before.

 

[zachxlutz]

Really sounds like you're testing the right parameters and aiming for good goals.

Did you start with dry rock? Have you seeded the tank with any live rock or live sand in order to help increase the biodiversity of the zooplankton/microfauna in your system?

What happens if you don't dose the No3Po4x? Do you see a drastic increase in NO3 and PO4 numbers? I wonder if you're suppressing the nutrients too much with the carbon dosing and starving your coral even with the feedings. I would guess that the PO4 is actually bottoming out at zero (even with your testing showing .03). My Red Sea test kit falsely reads .03, while my Hanna ULR checker will show 0, if that's what the system is reading.

Are 2 hydras enough for a 4 for long tank?

When I was thinking about LED again for my new build I was told I needed 3 52s for my 4' tank.

His par levels of 175-275 is more than enough lighting. I doubt this is the case.

Just a thought and I must admit I've not experienced it myself, but the salifert po4 test reckons that a po4 reading of over 0.025 can inhibit calcification in corals... might be worth getting them down a bit and seeing if that makes a difference?

There's evidence pointing towards that not being the case. Lots of well known established tanks have high nitrate/phosphate numbers with beautiful coral and tons of growth.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

H.I.T.S (hands in tank syndrome)?

 

[zachxlutz]

H.I.T.S (hands in tank syndrome)?

LOL. I think this might be the case!

 

[Gweeds1980]

Really sounds like you're testing the right parameters and aiming for good goals.

Did you start with dry rock? Have you seeded the tank with any live rock or live sand in order to help increase the biodiversity of the zooplankton/microfauna in your system?

What happens if you don't dose the No3Po4x? Do you see a drastic increase in NO3 and PO4 numbers? I wonder if you're suppressing the nutrients too much with the carbon dosing and starving your coral even with the feedings. I would guess that the PO4 is actually bottoming out at zero (even with your testing showing .03). My Red Sea test kit falsely reads .03, while my Hanna ULR checker will show 0, if that's what the system is reading.



His par levels of 175-275 is more than enough lighting. I doubt this is the case.



There's evidence pointing towards that not being the case. Lots of well known established tanks have high nitrate/phosphate numbers with beautiful coral and tons of growth.

Re the po4... yep, mine is usually higher than po4 and I haven't suffered lack of growth... as I said just a thought.

 

[Jeremy Luke]

I would think the lighting challenge would be more on the consistent spread side rather than max PAR readings utilizing 2 52s over a 4 for tank... But I'm certainly no expert. I personally struggled with LED only lighting solutions on my previous tank.

 

[Gweeds1980]

I would think the lighting challenge would be more on the consistent spread side rather than max PAR readings utilizing 2 52s over a 4 for tank... But I'm certainly no expert. I personally struggled with LED only lighting solutions on my previous tank.

The OP is running 2 x T5s too... what we don't know if what type etc.

 

[zachxlutz]

I would think the lighting challenge would be more on the consistent spread side rather than max PAR readings utilizing 2 52s over a 4 for tank... But I'm certainly no expert. I personally struggled with LED only lighting solutions on my previous tank.

I wonder if OP @Joe Batt has found PAR to suffer in certain areas of the tank. Even if that's the case, I'd still surmise that the low nutrients in his system are probably the cause of the slow growth and poor coloration.

 

[Jeremy Luke]

The OP is running 2 x T5s too... what we don't know if what type etc.

Whoops, missed that.

 

[Jeremy Luke]

Low nutrient levels have certainly been problematic for me at times. I find PO4 in the .05-.08 range to be the sweet spot for my tank.

 

[Bdog4u2]

Iow nutes are fine as long as you keep your dkh close to nsw and manually feed your corals every once in awhile.
My nutes are undetectable with red sea test but my corals are very colorful because I keep my alk below 7.5 because when it hits 8 colors go bye-bye. I find it easier to lower alk than to play with nutrients

 

[zachxlutz]

Iow nutes are fine as long as you keep your dkh close to nsw and manually feed your corals every once in awhile.
My nutes are undetectable with red sea test but my corals are very colorful because I keep my alk below 7.5 because when it hits 8 colors go bye-bye. I find it easier to lower alk than to play with nutrients

It's all about finding the balance that suits your individual tank.

 

[Joe Batt]

Really sounds like you're testing the right parameters and aiming for good goals.

Did you start with dry rock? Have you seeded the tank with any live rock or live sand in order to help increase the biodiversity of the zooplankton/microfauna in your system?

What happens if you don't dose the No3Po4x? Do you see a drastic increase in NO3 and PO4 numbers? I wonder if you're suppressing the nutrients too much with the carbon dosing and starving your coral even with the feedings. I would guess that the PO4 is actually bottoming out at zero (even with your testing showing .03). My Red Sea test kit falsely reads .03, while my Hanna ULR checker will show 0, if that's what the system is reading.



His par levels of 175-275 is more than enough lighting. I doubt this is the case.



There's evidence pointing towards that not being the case. Lots of well known established tanks have high nitrate/phosphate numbers with beautiful coral and tons of growth.

I started with live rock and RedSea Carib sand (I think it was RedSea sand...a while back now). My reading of 0.03 was with the Hanna Phosphate checker. From my understanding of it, if I am getting a reading of 0.03 then I definitely have Po4 because it isn't sensitive at the lower levels even reading 0 when it is actually 0.03 or slightly higher.

 

[Bdog4u2]

It's all about finding the balance that suits your individual tank.

Yes but you still need some sort of guidelines to go by to send you in the right direction

 

[Joe Batt]

I wonder if OP @Joe Batt has found PAR to suffer in certain areas of the tank. Even if that's the case, I'd still surmise that the low nutrients in his system are probably the cause of the slow growth and poor coloration.

I get a pretty even spread with the 2x 52HD and the 2x T5 running. At the sides of the tank it's a little lower but I use those for corals requiring lower light.

 

[Joe Batt]

If I 'dirty' up the tank a little as is suggested, what am I aiming for?

My understanding was that No3 of 2 isn't exactly ultra low and Po4 in the order of 0.03 seems to be what most of the reef experts recommend.

Should I just feed the fish more mysis and fish food to get more poop? Plus maybe more ReefRoids in the tank?

 

[zachxlutz]

If I 'dirty' up the tank a little as is suggested, what am I aiming for?

My understanding was that No3 of 2 isn't exactly ultra low and Po4 in the order of 0.03 seems to be what most of the reef experts recommend.

Should I just feed the fish more mysis and fish food to get more poop? Plus maybe more ReefRoids in the tank?

I would suggest manually dosing up your levels through commercial or DIY additives so you can really dial in what works for you. Feeding more heavily is an option, but it's harder to chase a target nutrient level with that. Lots of folks have luck dosing Stump Remover for NO3 and Seachem Flourish Phosphate or Aquavitro Activate for PO4. Considering you don't have a nuisance algae problem, I don't see where feeding more or dosing the tank up with additives will cause any damage.

I've had really good luck target 10 ppm NO3 and .10 ppm PO4. After battling Dinoflagellates and realizing I had been starving my tank I'm seeing HUGE benefits to manually dosing up both nitrates and phosphates.

On second thought, In your case, maybe back off the carbon dosing and let the nutrients rise on their own while you observe the tank and see how that helps.