When am I ready for a Mandarin?

[ThRoewer]

I added a huge amount of tigger pods a few months back they alway hid out near the back overflow and the clowns picked them off one by one and the Mandarin got nothing

It's better to add them in smaller portions frequently as they don't survive long term in a reef system (too many competition and predators).

 

[ThRoewer]

One suggestion: since you have pod cultures to sustain the mandarins (I would suggest to get a pair) in a small tank you should try to condition them first in a 10 gallon to also take frozen food. Easiest is to start with live adult brine shrimp (can be raised just like the pods). Oñce they take the live brine shrimp you can start adding some frozen. It shouldn't be long until they take those as well. Once they take the frozen brine shrimp you can start offering also frozen mysis. They should get the hang of it pretty quick. Adding live pods during this "training" helps the process as the pods will also sit on the frozen food which often leads to accidental ingestion of the frozen food when the mandarins go after the pods.
Once they recognize frozen brine shrimp or better even, mysis as food they are good to go into the display tank.

 

[najer]

Nice culture, yes you are ready, what wrasse do you have in QT?

 

[D E N I N O]

Nice culture, yes you are ready, what wrasse do you have in QT?

Silver belly wrasse.

One suggestion: since you have pod cultures to sustain the mandarins (I would suggest to get a pair) in a small tank you should try to condition them first in a 10 gallon to also take frozen food. Easiest is to start with live adult brine shrimp (can be raised just like the pods). Oñce they take the live brine shrimp you can start adding some frozen. It shouldn't be long until they take those as well. Once they take the frozen brine shrimp you can start offering also frozen mysis. They should get the hang of it pretty quick. Adding live pods during this "training" helps the process as the pods will also sit on the frozen food which often leads to accidental ingestion of the frozen food when the mandarins go after the pods.
Once they recognize frozen brine shrimp or better even, mysis as food they are good to go into the display tank.

They will be going through black molly quarantine for at least a month, I'll have lots of opportunity to get them conditioned and hopefully on prepared food.

 

[najer]

Silver belly wrasse.

Remember this is also a pod monster.

 

[ReefRDY]

Try to get one that is already eating, QT and try to get it to eat before dropping it in, they are very slow when it comes to chasing after food... but amazing fish! Good luck

 

[Coralsdaily]

Just buy a captive bred one. Both ORA's and Biota's will eat frozen foods. That way if they're not getting enough pods, they're still getting enough.

+1 on getting a captive bred mandarin! Not only they are much hardier and ready to eat prepared food, but just altogether more sustainable solution. You may think you are paying more, but the higher survival rate in the captive ones is totally worth the extra buck.

 

[living_tribunal]

Hey all,

I've been thinking about a Mandarin for a long time but always steered clear of them due to them being rather specialist.

About a year ago I started two outdoor 30 gallon pod cultures knowing I wanted a Mandarin. I upgraded my tank from a nano to a 50 gallon display in May.

Since then I've been dumping copepods into this tank every week which got it's first fish (4 Anthias) a few weeks back. From May until now it's stayed mostly fishless, I did add two clowns which had Brook so I ended up going fallow and I cycled it for 8 weeks before that... I also put Anthias through QT for a month which has left my pods with no predators since the tank was set up really.

As you can imagine, their populations are booming. They are everywhere on the glass, sand, rock. They are in my sump, there's a lot of them and I still have 60 gallons of pod cultures in my back yard which are doing well.

To me I "think" I'm ready for a Mandarin, but I guess I'm hoping for a second opinion first. I have two clowns and a wrasse in QT now so I'm at least a month away from buying a Mandarin and it will go through QT itself but is there a surefire way to know when a tank has enough pods to support these fish?

Thanks

You're ready when you support ~1,500-3,000 pods a day. That is about how many my mandarin consumes. He is an absolute animal and even after supplying ~30,000 copepods to my system every week for 6 months, I don't know if I have enough. He wipes them clean every week. It's non-stop compared to other fish like wrasses, pipefish, or other active hunters.

While there is merit to getting them to eventually eat frozen, you should start by feeding them pods. I have a fat mandarin and don't worry about if he's getting the nutrition he requires.

 

[living_tribunal]

It's better to add them in smaller portions frequently as they don't survive long term in a reef system (too many competition and predators).

It's best to go with tisbe or apex pods from the start. They primarily consume detritus and will hold up best in a reef tank. Fish love tigres, primarily given their large size/how they swim in the open water but they go real fast in tanks.

I view tigres as a delicacy and tisbe/apex as continuous sustenance. Tigres are very easy to culture however so it's worth dumping them in every week.

 

[ThRoewer]

It's best to go with tisbe or apex pods from the start. They primarily consume detritus and will hold up best in a reef tank. Fish love tigres, primarily given their large size/how they swim in the open water but they go real fast in tanks.

I view tigres as a delicacy and tisbe/apex as continuous sustenance. Tigres are very easy to culture however so it's worth dumping them in every week.

I use Tigriopus primarily as acclimatization feed for finicky eaters like pipefish or mandarins and also as transition feed for fish larvae between Artemia and dry feeds. They are easy to culture outside year-round (at least here in California) and are large enough to provide a lot of nutrition per bite.

I seriously doubt that Apex pods (Apocyclops panamensis) will reproduce well in a reef tank. I culture those in tubs and they and their nauplius stages are primarily planktonic and very slow-growing.
Tisbe on the other hand should do well enough in a reef system with a refugium and reproduce there. But likely not enough to sustain mandarins.
The Isopods you often find on live rock and the front glass are the best feeds for mandarins.
Amphipods, especially young ones, are also good mandarin food and it is nearly impossible to keep them out of a reef tank.
Mysids may also be a good feed but the ones I have in my tanks are way too fast for mandarins.

 

[Paul B]

Sorry, I don't think that tank can support a mandarin long term and they live over ten years. I have been keeping them continuously since they have been imported and IMO if you have to buy food for them, it will eventually starve.
A Mandarin is one of the easiest, least maintenance fish we normally keep and they need no special feeding. But your tank must be able to self produce it's food with no help from you.

You can probably buy thousands of dollars worth of pods every month but the pods you are buying are not the ones that normally grow in your tank (I don't think so, but I am not sure)

I keep and spawn mandarins for 10 years and I have never bought a pod in my life.
An "old " tank, "of the proper size" that is fed sufficiently will support multiple mandarins with no help from you.

You can of course add a PaulB (thats me ) feeder but you would have to hatch brine shrimp every day like many people do.

I wish you luck whatever you do.

 

[living_tribunal]

I use Tigriopus primarily as acclimatization feed for finicky eaters like pipefish or mandarins and also as transition feed for fish larvae between Artemia and dry feeds. They are easy to culture outside year-round (at least here in California) and are large enough to provide a lot of nutrition per bite.

I seriously doubt that Apex pods (Apocyclops panamensis) will reproduce well in a reef tank. I culture those in tubs and they and their nauplius stages are primarily planktonic and very slow-growing.
Tisbe on the other hand should do well enough in a reef system with a refugium and reproduce there. But likely not enough to sustain mandarins.
The Isopods you often find on live rock and the front glass are the best feeds for mandarins.
Amphipods, especially young ones, are also good mandarin food and it is nearly impossible to keep them out of a reef tank.
Mysids may also be a good feed but the ones I have in my tanks are way too fast for mandarins.

While I agree with you regarding Tigre pods, I can’t say the same for apex.

I culture apex, tisbe, and tigre pods. My apex culture grows just as fast as my tisbe culture. I have the apex on a similar diet as the tisbes with a rotifer based detritus blend. I find them to be very hardy in a reef tank and they reproduce well. Since they are slightly larger than tisbes, my pipefish and mandarin get to them first every week.

I agree with you overall about not being able to have the tank self-sustain enough pods with a mandarin present. I keep a h. Chrysus, pipe fish, and mandarin. They consume all 30,000 pods I add in every week. I watch my mandarin and he just consumes so many every day, 5-10 every minute.

 

[living_tribunal]

I use Tigriopus primarily as acclimatization feed for finicky eaters like pipefish or mandarins and also as transition feed for fish larvae between Artemia and dry feeds. They are easy to culture outside year-round (at least here in California) and are large enough to provide a lot of nutrition per bite.

I seriously doubt that Apex pods (Apocyclops panamensis) will reproduce well in a reef tank. I culture those in tubs and they and their nauplius stages are primarily planktonic and very slow-growing.
Tisbe on the other hand should do well enough in a reef system with a refugium and reproduce there. But likely not enough to sustain mandarins.
The Isopods you often find on live rock and the front glass are the best feeds for mandarins.
Amphipods, especially young ones, are also good mandarin food and it is nearly impossible to keep them out of a reef tank.
Mysids may also be a good feed but the ones I have in my tanks are way too fast for mandarins.

Forgot to mention, I have tens of thousands of amphipods in my system. My mandarin tends to avoid them as they are too large. He might be getting to the juvies though that I think are pods.