Why don't algae control writers/advisors do live time work threads in the nuisance algae forum?

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BeanAnimal

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I also want to add something here...

You recently use the words "invasions" or "invaders" a lot. You also (a page back) told somebody that in a matter of hours (following your method) that they could have crystal clear water and no nuisance algae, as opposed to listening to anybody else's "control" methods that will take months.

1 - "nuisance algae" is not an invader, but rather a natural part of a marine ecosystem. You can't fully get rid of it, but rather you need to learn to control it.

2 - your "rip clean" method is nothing more than aggressive mechanical removal, it is not a "real time" control method, it is a one-time act that needs to be combined with REAL, long-term "control" methods and/or regularly repeated.

While some people may be willing to tear down their reef once a year and scrub the rock and use tweezers and a microscope to remove "invaders" and wash or replace their sand- most of us would rather work spend the time to provide an environment where that does not need to happen, especially every year or two.
 
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brandon429

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@BeanAnimal lets include real world work examples along with myriad critiques

show me a link of any work thread, that's one example requested, for an outbound job you did to completion. any reefing topic, any forum, awaiting your link. I want to see what mechanisms you used.

I'm not talking about installing plastic overflow grates for someone.

a challenge of some type you honestly closed out, link that pls.



one example of an outbound tank challenge you saw to completion, if I'm not being specific enough let me know.

its truly a challenge to get examples for others of completed works, am legit curious to see how you personally fare in those attempts.

a pattern here: critiques never, never come with a work link showing the better way.

all harsh critics are outside the work threads, if we click to read inside them, the entrants are happy in mine. I haven't received any feedback like that from anyone who's tank was fixed that's for sure. just from the jeering crowd, in the stands, but never on the actual playing field.
 
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brandon429

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the point of this thread is to request teachers to do teaching live time so we can watch them respond live time to challenge tank situations.

it's ok to fill up the thread with critiques but be sure and add something relevant

be a live time teacher

@BeanAnimal

would you be open to a live time test> I'll redirect one of my private message jobs for you to work here, to completion of course, and no rip cleaning allowed :)

you'll do the work here live time vs me in chat, sound ok?

that's relevant to this thread vs trolling because you'd be doing some live time work without any preps, using opposite means I use, it's work in someone else's tank and you won't control the evaluations

we'd learn options from that work on file from you don't you agree?

that's a standing offer for any reader here. as soon as you're feeling ready to fix a challenge/invasion/ however you want to term it we can do that live here.
 

BeanAnimal

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@BeanAnimal lets include real world work examples along with myriad critiques
No thank you :)

show me a link of any work thread.
I participate in conversations and provide my insight, opinion and experience. Take it or leave it. I do not track my conversations, catalog them or view them as “work threads” and do not plan to… ever.

More importantly, I do not seek, need or wish to have your stamp of approval regarding my methods, advice or participation in this hobby.

This is not a contest. There is no conspiracy. I don’t care about ‘likes’ and my participation in this hobby is not monetized. I participate for the enjoyment of the hobby.
 
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brandon429

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being put on the spot draws out best practices in the best way viewers can see, it's no fun doing at home jobs where the outcome is always relayed as perfect/see my way is best etc.


I've asked a few times for Taras to respond I'm thinking it's probably not going to get a response.


one of these days, two years from now most likely, a reef sage is going to accept the challenge and that will be great for the hobby and all readers of reefing material. I have unending jobs we can send to anyone ready to roll. those reefers are awaiting legit help, they're willing to run the actions you tell them to run, a huge source of free work is ready and waiting in messages/help threads posted daily on the site.
 

BeanAnimal

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My way is not best, Brandon. It is simply my way and what works for me. Some of it learned from other’s and some of it from my own trial and error. In the world of open information exchange, you or any other viewer or participant are free to evaluate my advice in any way you wish. ‘Real time’ or not.
 
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brandon429

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ok

now how about @Roadkillstewie and @fish farmer

ya'll open to some jobs, or you were just reinforcing BeanAnimal? lemme know. if you have six reasons you're not actually here to help/contribute work we can study I fully 100% understand

my view on rip clean legitimacy:

we keep using it until something better is shown, that's a large reason for posting this thread. to bring out the evolution of handling tank invasions or challenges or whatever euphemism feels best when describing this condition:
1ap.jpg


I call that an invasion, we can term it any other way though, as long as the outcome looks like this:

2ap.jpg



that's the same tank, 24 hours later after our work.


we are meeting a niche demand that nobody else is meeting (a known completion timeframe, nothing is open-ended wait, we aren't buying dosers that kill one organism then send the tank on a 24 month cyano GHA nightmare, we aren't introducing fish and inverts as disease vectors only for them to not work, we prevent tank crashes we save corals and $ for people asking for help) so I'm having trouble digesting critiques on the limitations of rip cleaning.

I figured asking article writers, teachers, and reef sages and video bloggers tucked comfortably in a studio somewhere behind an editing PC would get us such results that we wouldn't need to scrape from rip clean threads.
 
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ok

now how about @Roadkillstewie and @fish farmer

ya'll open to some jobs, or you were just reinforcing BeanAnimal? lemme know. if you have six reasons you're not actually here to help/contribute work we can study I fully 100% understand

my view on rip clean legitimacy:

we keep using it until something better is shown, that's a large reason for posting this thread. to bring out the evolution of handling tank invasions or challenges or whatever euphemism feels best when describing this condition:
1ap.jpg


I call that an invasion, we can term it any other way though, as long as the outcome looks like this:

2ap.jpg



that's the same tank, 24 hours later after our work.


we are meeting a niche demand that nobody else is meeting (a known completion timeframe, nothing is open-ended wait, we aren't buying dosers that kill one organism then send the tank on a 24 month cyano GHA nightmare, we aren't introducing fish and inverts as disease vectors only for them to not work, we prevent tank crashes we save corals and $ for people asking for help) so I'm having trouble digesting critiques on the limitations of rip cleaning.

I figured asking article writers, teachers, and reef sages and video bloggers tucked comfortably in a studio somewhere behind an editing PC would get us such results that we wouldn't need to scrape from rip clean threads.
Is that a rabbit in that tank? Was it in there before? If there's a link to that tank it would be great, I can look myself, ta.
 
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brandon429

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thats my top seven rip cleans thread. I use that as a link when I solicit jobs from people who post for invasion help in threads

I send them that link and ask them if they're ready to fix their tank, the serious ones respond with a yes/when can we get started.

WVU never did come back on the site it seems, I asked for his updates a time or two last year. still, his work was shocking good as the opening volley from that thread. the other tanks cover a usual spectrum of invasion challenges we see and I listed those as best of the best for rip cleans. That's WVU's tank from the pics in post #47
 
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brandon429

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what if:

we used the collective power of readers here to reach out to writers, bloggers, authors, sages, teachers, macna speakers and aim them here in the hopes they'll run a few live jobs for us??

we could spend time dissecting rip cleans/ten years running on the site/ or we could make use of this thread in a different way: getting our teachers up off their bums.

they don't do it, because consumers of their material don't require it. we pay them to do the lazy stuff which is rehash their own material over, and over, and over, and over and over


the best use of this thread would be to link someone, anyone, taking on a new reef tank rehab job preferably at the start, before it's done so we can see how the fixer guides the whole process and how long that process takes and how it sustains



any guitarist wants to see their favorite players do live time work, they don't just go off what studios produce and arrange as flawless tracks

the number one thing I was thinking at every concert I've been to was: how well can you replicate what I bought from the studio


the point of this thread is to find the reefing version of that work standard and ability. we want to see live time reef algae fix concert examples in this thread.
 
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fish farmer

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ok

now how about @Roadkillstewie and @fish farmer

ya'll open to some jobs, or you were just reinforcing BeanAnimal? lemme know. if you have six reasons you're not actually here to help/contribute work we can study I fully 100% understand

my view on rip clean legitimacy:

we keep using it until something better is shown, that's a large reason for posting this thread. to bring out the evolution of handling tank invasions or challenges or whatever euphemism feels best when describing this condition:
1ap.jpg


I call that an invasion, we can term it any other way though, as long as the outcome looks like this:

2ap.jpg



that's the same tank, 24 hours later after our work.


we are meeting a niche demand that nobody else is meeting (a known completion timeframe, nothing is open-ended wait, we aren't buying dosers that kill one organism then send the tank on a 24 month cyano GHA nightmare, we aren't introducing fish and inverts as disease vectors only for them to not work, we prevent tank crashes we save corals and $ for people asking for help) so I'm having trouble digesting critiques on the limitations of rip cleaning.

I figured asking article writers, teachers, and reef sages and video bloggers tucked comfortably in a studio somewhere behind an editing PC would get us such results that we wouldn't need to scrape from rip clean threads.
My thoughts are similar to @BeanAnimal regarding rip cleans. Does this quick reset really fix the problem long term or do "reefer habits" regarding overstocking, overfeeding, under exporting bring the tank back to the same place needing a deep cleaning every year or two? What if your rocks are saturated with phosphates which we all know will contribute to algae? I'm not criticizing the method, just using critical thinking about other factors going on in the aquarium.

I have no desire to flip through pages and pages of links, could you summarize briefly well documented rip cleans into an article, with before and after pictures, preferably with extended years of service like several years later and modifications in maintenance like additional rip cleans or other algae control methods employed on said tanks, additional stocking, coral growth, etc.? I think this would be very valuable information, but it needs to be simple to access.

I personally don't have the desire to be a teacher/guiding light on this forum...I don't think people listen to me anyway. I'll just put my experience with the hobby where I see fit.
 

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"now how about @Roadkillstewie and @fish farmer

ya'll open to some jobs, or you were just reinforcing BeanAnimal? lemme know. if you have six reasons you're not actually here to help/contribute work we can study I fully 100% understand "

If you fully understood, you'd not have made the comment you made... nor am I arrogant / delusional enough to even begin to consider myself a 'sage' or expert in regards to the mass of things reef or aquarium related.

I lack the time/energy/interest to take on what amounts to more 'work' in addition
to my current job, which amounts do 'troubleshooting/teaching' others not considering
what it would take timewise from my other hobbies/interests/projects.


As others have stated, we comment based on our own experiences...take it or leave it.


What I will TRY to do however, see how long this Biocube setup of myne goes w/o a subsequent 'invasion' of dinos/cyano etc al.

In return, keep track of the 'rip cleans' and show them 6, 12, 18 months (etc) later as being still as pristine w/o subsequent 'cleanings'.
 
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brandon429

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I wanted to hear what you both had to say aside from Bean’s rip clean critique to see if there were independent thoughts on the matter, thanks for posting.


I was called out for a work thread live time. savory vittles

How many excuses did I come up with to try and get out of it

How long did i take to thank BR for the opportunity

In any way did my response seem unhappy for the challenge or was it like I'd been waiting and waiting for that post

I want my macna speakers, best practices authors, algae control posters and reef sages hungrier than that, they need to write from a really practiced and able and can I see it in a link perspective
 
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brandon429

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The number one poster on this entire site who should do a work thread, is @jda

I noticed Jay H from the disease forum took on twenty new public work threads in the last two days, I wish he'd give a macna speech. I'd be glued to paying attention to see how he ran all those live time jobs where other people's tanks were worked, and the example was never his own reef with pictures rehashed the last 15 years, and all his evaluations come from other people and they're 100% positive

If he writes an article on the matter, I'd read it because of what he does for other tanks live time. It's not because he ran a zoo and writes articles what he took from that

He's responding live time with specific disease control steps and we can see our own updates from the tank owners to discern best practices from results.

Articles and books don't give that perspective. Only work threads do
 
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I wanted to hear what you both had to say aside from Bean’s rip clean critique to see if there were independent thoughts on the matter, thanks for posting.


I was called out for a work thread live time. savory vittles

How many excuses did I come up with to try and get out of it

How long did i take to thank BR for the opportunity

In any way did my response seem unprepared or unhappy for the challenge

A past macna speaker should have the same zest, or they should give up their title, then re earn it with live time work, then give a redemption talk :)

Reef teachers and algae control authors are excuse factories.
Have you taken the chap in that link to a private message consultation? He's gone a little quiet on that thread.
 

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Brandon why do you seem to take it so personally that there are people out there with methods other than yours? You take this forum full of helpful people with different ideas and methods and make it rather clear you seem to look down on them if they’re not willing to conform to how you believe interactions or methods should be. This entire thread is basically dedicated to you calling people out for doing things differently than you.
 

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...
1ap.jpg


I call that an invasion, we can term it any other way though, as long as the outcome looks like this:

2ap.jpg


that's the same tank, 24 hours later after our work....

thats my top seven rip cleans thread. I use that as a link when I solicit jobs from people who post for invasion help in threads...
Since that user is gone, do you have photos of other tanks and how they look at various times after a rip clean? Months latter, years latter.

That example has what the tank looks likes right after a rip clean (24 hours latter), but noting after that. Would be great to see what that tank looks like today (four years latter), if it's still running.
 
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brandon429

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Fair request. Subscribe to the OP of the example link from post #53 that’s one starting right now. We can check their outcome against mine and JDA’s predictions. He specifically said they’ll get dinos now, let’s see.

A pattern that emerges from rip clean work threads: when it works you never hear from them again. If it doesn’t work, expect daily accountability posts in the threads.

Take the examples worked from the linked work threads here so far and select the find all posts section of their avatar



Read the updates that came after for the answer

It takes work, because nobody fails at our rip cleans. We don’t hear back because the method works to preserve their tank. Here’s 300 more to trace out:)
 
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brandon429

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Accurate positioning of Rip Cleans in the post verse:

The problem begins when someone posts a wrecked reef caused by anything. Before rip cleans the millions of posts exist where the responding public would go tens of pages with help recommends and each page still shows a form of wreckage (pick any dinos challenge work link that doesn’t use rip cleans, each page is continual wreckage and low degree turnaround testimonials)




Even in BChat’s dinos article linked prior, go see the updates. They’re saying it’s not working

**see how the article, when paired with public work tests, becomes incongruent?**

He gets my respect for running his claims through public tanks even if the outcome is a work in progress. I don’t have a way to fix dinos other than rip cleans, so there’s no judgement from me for sure on his work. He’ll get there one day, then we won’t need rip cleans at all.


Rip cleans give the reefer exactly what they want.


I never told a living soul that one rip clean fixes you forever this is why nobody reports back a fail to me in the auditable examples above. Do we see any dinos outbreaks above in the giant work thread? That’s why JDA’s skepticism is never ending: not being on the playing field makes the stands a fair place a person can do jeers and taunts from. But don’t ever actually get on the field of play to test your advices…

I give wrecked tank, invaded tank owners a skip cycle reef that looks brand new: if they fail to change approaches thereafter, the old adage applies.

That’s not on me. guiding those after pics never using my own tank as the proof and giving them exactly what they asked for was the task.

How someone reefs long term is on them. If they have a wrecked algae tank in 4 mos after, then passivity won out and they didn’t change the right variables. They allowed algae vs all my readable works which show active prevention attitudes.



I traced out hundreds of reefs long term, rip cleaning helps any reef and yes it’s the primary way I grew my own pico reef out to be Gandalf level old. If someone can reef without rip cleans they should


And if an article writer can control nine years of random work examples to gain as many sharp after pics, they should be writing in the articles how they did that: and we should get to see the links. But they’re not going to do it


My entire thread here is baiting action from reef pros, over a thousand readers have seen this, yet only one taker / Gregg ADP. I’m buying him a digital beer and emailing it to him. And when a new algae control article comes out by a wilted writer, I’m in the stands jeering/irony
 
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brandon429

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How long have I been trying to hold teachers, speakers, influencers, retailers accountable for their teachings? Years

Greg is the only taker in years. There’s mass wiltage in effect:


@BRS / wilters

Isnt that amazing: BRS is an authority figure in our hobby but they hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide hide when summoned for a job if selling some mb7 can’t fix it


Five years ago I made this same thread:

Wilters is all I see pretty much. Jeers from the crowd, but the crowd doesn’t really have a better way that’s the hidden truth (and neither do the teachers sages and article writers, they know they can’t do outbound work)

Work threads are the best claims filters possible. They don’t allow b s because I don’t control the updates.

Articles, blogs, constantly using only our own examples stifles reefing evolution and makes for weak teachers who always dodge experience demonstrations.


I will eventually be able to use raw pressure + baits to get a reef teacher to do some live time work which only benefits them + our hobby

Until then: reef tank algae pros who give macna talks and write articles without work threads and make cash on YouTube teaching vids are safety-seeking wilters. :)

We secretly all know you can’t work a live time job, so, take pics of your own tank and write us some more articles!
 
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