Zoa and Green Star Polyp troubles

Nasabeau · Jan 28, 2021

hello everyone. so, I will start with my corals are all extending fully and have a moderate flow and are about middle of the tank. I've noticed recently the green star polyp has started to brown slightly and the purple middles have become white. I have also noticed that the purple part of my Zoanthids is slightly browning as well (the tendrils), but the colour sections look fine on them. all of them still glow normally under actinic lights. the most concerning part however is one of my Zoas has started becoming very slow to close at night. my hand goes in the tank for any reason and they close up fast, but the lights have been off for a few hours now and its still open. its only one of the zoas doing this, the other closes up at night like normal. any ideas what might be going on? these coral have been in the tank maybe two weeks and these are my first corals, so please forgive me if this is something obvious I'm doing wrong

PBnJOnWheat · Jan 29, 2021

Nasabeau said:
hello everyone. so, I will start with my corals are all extending fully and have a moderate flow and are about middle of the tank. I've noticed recently the green star polyp has started to brown slightly and the purple middles have become white. I have also noticed that the purple part of my Zoanthids is slightly browning as well (the tendrils), but the colour sections look fine on them. all of them still glow normally under actinic lights. the most concerning part however is one of my Zoas has started becoming very slow to close at night. my hand goes in the tank for any reason and they close up fast, but the lights have been off for a few hours now and its still open. its only one of the zoas doing this, the other closes up at night like normal. any ideas what might be going on? these coral have been in the tank maybe two weeks and these are my first corals, so please forgive me if this is something obvious I'm doing wrong

Pictures could help and it makes it fun to put some words to image!! Also, as far as closing at night, when they stay open at night it means they’re pretty happy. Idk how true to fact that is but, I use that judgement on acropora or SPS, and other corals. Most of the time if I put my hand over my corals or mess with them they’ll start to close also. One concern would be what’s on your hands when you put them in ur tank!! I myself hve had close calls thinking, “lemme wash my hands before I put them in the tank” except that soap, could be a bigger problem than say dead skin or oils. So what’s on ur hand when u put it in I would be wary.

When it comes to browning corals they could be shifting colors. Without pics I’d guess something is growing on them that’s brown but if the corals themselves are changing color that’s normal and sometimes good for their price when it comes to corals.

Parameters might help others, but I think pictures would be awesome!! Hopefully this helps some, if they open up fully your more than likely okay.

Nasabeau · Jan 29, 2021

PBnJOnWheat said:
Pictures could help and it makes it fun to put some words to image!! Also, as far as closing at night, when they stay open at night it means they’re pretty happy. Idk how true to fact that is but, I use that judgement on acropora or SPS, and other corals. Most of the time if I put my hand over my corals or mess with them they’ll start to close also. One concern would be what’s on your hands when you put them in ur tank!! I myself hve had close calls thinking, “lemme wash my hands before I put them in the tank” except that soap, could be a bigger problem than say dead skin or oils. So what’s on ur hand when u put it in I would be wary.

When it comes to browning corals they could be shifting colors. Without pics I’d guess something is growing on them that’s brown but if the corals themselves are changing color that’s normal and sometimes good for their price when it comes to corals.

Parameters might help others, but I think pictures would be awesome!! Hopefully this helps some, if they open up fully your more than likely okay.

I guess I should have said this, I plan to add pictures in the morning. I noticed this and forgot to take a picture when they were still open and the lights have been out for a few hours now. the one coral is almost all the way closed, the other two are closed up for the evening, so I will be posting pictures as soon as I can get them. I have a feeling you need to see the polyps for it to be helpful XD. I also will test my parameters in the morning. I always do it in the morning so that fluctuations throughout the day aren't recorded (IE, small pH change or nitrate/phosphate going up right after feeding before its had time to get filtered out, etc). I will say my tank has had some issues with cyano/GHA that are mostly under control now that I'm running some GFO and denitrate, although the sand bed is still purple, but not like, slime level, just a tad purple. I know my calcium is probably still around 430ish, that rarely changes in my tank and I just tested a couple days ago, but as far as other parameters, I will find out in the morning.

Side note: when my hands go in the tank, I wash them in old tank water first. no soap just water and rubbing to get off anything that might be on there. I try not to reach into the tank if I can avoid it, but it happens every now and again. I doubt the corals close up because of something getting into the water, I think they sense the disturbance and don't want to get touched. I mostly added that part to say "the coral staying open can close, its just choosing not to"

PBnJOnWheat · Jan 29, 2021

Nasabeau said:
I guess I should have said this, I plan to add pictures in the morning. I noticed this and forgot to take a picture when they were still open and the lights have been out for a few hours now. the one coral is almost all the way closed, the other two are closed up for the evening, so I will be posting pictures as soon as I can get them. I have a feeling you need to see the polyps for it to be helpful XD. I also will test my parameters in the morning. I always do it in the morning so that fluctuations throughout the day aren't recorded (IE, small pH change or nitrate/phosphate going up right after feeding before its had time to get filtered out, etc). I will say my tank has had some issues with cyano/GHA that are mostly under control now that I'm running some GFO and denitrate, although the sand bed is still purple, but not like, slime level, just a tad purple. I know my calcium is probably still around 430ish, that rarely changes in my tank and I just tested a couple days ago, but as far as other parameters, I will find out in the morning.

Side note: when my hands go in the tank, I wash them in old tank water first. no soap just water and rubbing to get off anything that might be on there. I try not to reach into the tank if I can avoid it, but it happens every now and again. I doubt the corals close up because of something getting into the water, I think they sense the disturbance and don't want to get touched. I mostly added that part to say "the coral staying open can close, its just choosing not to"

Lol gotcha gotcha, they are new and the first ones so maybe they are sensitive or something not sure. I know with an old old tank, something about the time, and having lots and different types of corals makes them more relaxed if u will and I’ve picked one up before and it didn’t close. Still take pictures of it while moving it even. Honestly I’m not sure maybe someone else has some insight but yes pics tomorrow sound great just tag me or quote me or something so I get the notification

good stuff

namfuak · Jan 29, 2021

PBnJOnWheat said:
Pictures could help and it makes it fun to put some words to image!! Also, as far as closing at night, when they stay open at night it means they’re pretty happy. Idk how true to fact that is but, I use that judgement on acropora or SPS, and other corals. Most of the time if I put my hand over my corals or mess with them they’ll start to close also. One concern would be what’s on your hands when you put them in ur tank!! I myself hve had close calls thinking, “lemme wash my hands before I put them in the tank” except that soap, could be a bigger problem than say dead skin or oils. So what’s on ur hand when u put it in I would be wary.

When it comes to browning corals they could be shifting colors. Without pics I’d guess something is growing on them that’s brown but if the corals themselves are changing color that’s normal and sometimes good for their price when it comes to corals.

Parameters might help others, but I think pictures would be awesome!! Hopefully this helps some, if they open up fully your more than likely okay.

I would agree with them not closing at night. I notice that some do and some don't and it's random between them. I wouldn't take zoas not closing at night as a sign of trouble.

When you say that you put your hand in the tank and they close up, is this just from putting your hand in or currents caused by your moving hand?

I have most of my zoas in decent flow and they're used to be touched my a cleaner shrimp, fish, and snails and seem to be very used to disturbances. When fragging several zoas, I have noticed that it's extremely hard to get them to close all the way. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Nasabeau · Jan 29, 2021

namfuak said:
I would agree with them not closing at night. I notice that some do and some don't and it's random between them. I wouldn't take zoas not closing at night as a sign of trouble.

When you say that you put your hand in the tank and they close up, is this just from putting your hand in or currents caused by your moving hand?

I have most of my zoas in decent flow and they're used to be touched my a cleaner shrimp, fish, and snails and seem to be very used to disturbances. When fragging several zoas, I have noticed that it's extremely hard to get them to close all the way. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

The green star polyp doesn't care at all, moved him today cause he was looking the worst so I wanted him at a higher position, thought maybe it wasn't getting enough light (on an island near the sand bed, moved up to the top of my main rock) and I could not for the life of me get it to close all the way while trying to get it's plug unglued from the rock. the zoas will close up when I just stick my hand in at all, but in doing that I am disturbing the current because the only way to reach into my tank is directly in front of a power head. they also close up when a snail gets too close, when my cleaner shrimp moves too close to them, and when I put in food for the cleaner shrimp. they seem to be very shy little guys. actually had to adjust my flow for one because it was too strong and he wouldn't open fully. turned down the PHs until he opened up all the way. I'm guessing as time goes they'll get more used to it and be less shy, they've only been here a couple weeks now

namfuak · Jan 29, 2021

Nasabeau said:
The green star polyp doesn't care at all, moved him today cause he was looking the worst so I wanted him at a higher position, thought maybe it wasn't getting enough light (on an island near the sand bed, moved up to the top of my main rock) and I could not for the life of me get it to close all the way while trying to get it's plug unglued from the rock. the zoas will close up when I just stick my hand in at all, but in doing that I am disturbing the current because the only way to reach into my tank is directly in front of a power head. they also close up when a snail gets too close, when my cleaner shrimp moves too close to them, and when I put in food for the cleaner shrimp. they seem to be very shy little guys. actually had to adjust my flow for one because it was too strong and he wouldn't open fully. turned down the PHs until he opened up all the way. I'm guessing as time goes they'll get more used to it and be less shy, they've only been here a couple weeks now

Sounds like your hand is directing the current from the powerhead directly towards them and they're just reacting. It's completely normal. You'll find that they're all very different in what they tolerate or excel in. Some prefer different flow, light, and so on. They are susceptible to algae, cyano, and detritus build up. One thing that I do on occasion is use a small makeup brush and just lightly brush between polyps, on the exterior, or anywhere you might see it.

GSP is also very susceptible to the same and I'll take a turkey baster and lightly blast them with some current to close them up and then blow away any buildup around the polyps.

Nasabeau · Jan 29, 2021

namfuak said:
Sounds like your hand is directing the current from the powerhead directly towards them and they're just reacting. It's completely normal. You'll find that they're all very different in what they tolerate or excel in. Some prefer different flow, light, and so on. They are susceptible to algae, cyano, and detritus build up. One thing that I do on occasion is use a small makeup brush and just lightly brush between polyps, on the exterior, or anywhere you might see it.

GSP is also very susceptible to the same and I'll take a turkey baster and lightly blast them with some current to close them up and then blow away any buildup around the polyps.

yeah, my saying they close when I stick my hand in... well I assumed that was normal, I just meant to say that the coral can close up it just doesn't sometimes and I was concerned there might be a problem. I will definitely look into getting a clean makeup brush and baster to try cleaning them up a little bit. hopefully since my nutrients are getting under control I won't have a severe problem with any of that

namfuak · Jan 29, 2021

Nasabeau said:
yeah, my saying they close when I stick my hand in... well I assumed that was normal, I just meant to say that the coral can close up it just doesn't sometimes and I was concerned there might be a problem. I will definitely look into getting a clean makeup brush and baster to try cleaning them up a little bit. hopefully since my nutrients are getting under control I won't have a severe problem with any of that

Yeah, don't even sweat it. Like I said, I'll frag some or go to dip and they still won't close out of the water.

Are your nutrients out of control right now? What are your tests registering at? How new is the tank?

Nasabeau · Jan 29, 2021

namfuak said:
Yeah, don't even sweat it. Like I said, I'll frag some or go to dip and they still won't close out of the water.

Are your nutrients out of control right now? What are your tests registering at? How new is the tank?

tanks going on 4 months I think, had a problem with fish dying back in December (brook). its fallow right now. last I checked the nitrates were about 5 and the phosphate was about 0.25 that's why I threw in some GFO. should be gone by now, but I typically check on the weekends unless something it going wrong. plan on checking tomorrow morning to update (always check in the morning just for consistency). they were a lot higher, I used some nopox and large water changes before adding the corals to bring them down.

namfuak · Jan 29, 2021

Nasabeau said:
tanks going on 4 months I think, had a problem with fish dying back in December (brook). its fallow right now. last I checked the nitrates were about 5 and the phosphate was about 0.25 that's why I threw in some GFO. should be gone by now, but I typically check on the weekends unless something it going wrong. plan on checking tomorrow morning to update (always check in the morning just for consistency). they were a lot higher, I used some nopox and large water changes before adding the corals to bring them down.

With the small amount and type of coral that you've added, I wouldn't put in GFO. They should be just fine with the NO3 and PO4 levels you have. I would let these grow, continue to monitor and see where you're at down the road.

There is a lot of information out there about getting nutrient levels (Nitrate & Phosphate) down to zero, but it's really not a place that you want to be. All corals need some NO3 and PO4. Soft corals like you have prefer nutrient rich water and stripping those nutrients can lead to a host of other problems.

That being said, what does your tank look like? You said that it's fallow. Do you have inverts? Do you have any updated pics (I didn't see any on your build thread)? If you don't have any immediate issues, I would leave it where it is. What does your testing trend look like?

Nasabeau · Jan 29, 2021

namfuak said:
With the small amount and type of coral that you've added, I wouldn't put in GFO. They should be just fine with the NO3 and PO4 levels you have. I would let these grow, continue to monitor and see where you're at down the road.

There is a lot of information out there about getting nutrient levels (Nitrate & Phosphate) down to zero, but it's really not a place that you want to be. All corals need some NO3 and PO4. Soft corals like you have prefer nutrient rich water and stripping those nutrients can lead to a host of other problems.

That being said, what does your tank look like? You said that it's fallow. Do you have inverts? Do you have any updated pics (I didn't see any on your build thread)? If you don't have any immediate issues, I would leave it where it is. What does your testing trend look like?

testing has been trending down on nutrients for a while now. I have a lot of snails and I have a cleaner shrimp. calcium is fairly stable, pH has been staying in to 7.9 range for a while now, and salinity stays almost dead constant 1.025. I do water changes at 1.024 to make up for not having an ATO, and its been working very well for me. I'm not trying to get the nutrients to zero, I've just found if I don't run GFO, when I feed the phosphate levels will go up fairly quickly, and I am feeding the shrimp, so I'm just trying to not let that get out of control. the high PO4 (at its peak it was almost 2) is what lead to my cyano and GHA problems which I think are starting to go down now that those are lower. since I run a canister and not a sump for space reasons, It can be kind of a trap for food which is a good way to get a lot of nitrate and phosphate in the tank if I'm not removing it.

and yeah, sorry, I kinda started neglecting my build thread after the fish all died, because I was making a lot of changes and wanted to kind of wait till I was done with that before updating. changed the light, changed the filter, changed the powerheads... its been an experience. added my first corals. If you want to see those about 4 days after bringing them home I believe I have some pictures up in Copper treatment in a DT, Documented | Page 5 | REEF2REEF Saltwater and Reef Aquarium Forum. I'll have new pictures of them now up here in the morning (and side note, yes, the first thing I did when I saw they weren't looking the same was check the copper, and its still zeroed out and I am still running cuprisorb in case a rock decided to hold on to some copper)

namfuak · Jan 29, 2021

I'm sorry, I can't help you on the canister side of things, though I've heard that they can be a bit of a nutrient trap.

Update your build thread when you get a chance. I'm not sure what kind of a log you keep personally, but the build thread I feel, is more of an opportunity for you to log your progress and changes, even if it feels like you're talking to yourself.

Nasabeau · Jan 29, 2021

namfuak said:
I'm sorry, I can't help you on the canister side of things, though I've heard that they can be a bit of a nutrient trap.

Update your build thread when you get a chance. I'm not sure what kind of a log you keep personally, but the build thread I feel, is more of an opportunity for you to log your progress and changes, even if it feels like you're talking to yourself.

I have a notebook I keep next to the tank. feel its easier to just write it down real quick. I use the build thread mostly to keep other people who are interested updated

Nasabeau · Jan 29, 2021

and in my experience they can be nutrient traps but that can be pretty easily overcome by filtering the intake and then running things like GFO and denitrate. seems to be working for me, it doesn't hit zero but it stays well controlled