★I am ALIVE★ (PLEASE READ) ★Tank almost ★Electrocuted★ me★ ( GFCI never Tripped ...MISSING GROUND PROBE) Passing on Lesson to All Reefers
- Thread starter WallyB
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OP
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WallyB
REEF Techno-Geek
Excellent!!
Hoping other folks do the same.
At LEAST A GFCI outlet for those that don't have one.
OP
OP
WallyB
REEF Techno-Geek
That's a story worth sharing. Thanks.
So since I have only one broken Titanium Heater (broken), it doesn't have 3 Prong. Just two.
With a two prong heater (100% no grounding).
Does you titanium heater have a 3 Prong plug?
Yes, I'm running dual finnex titanium 300w heaters. I'm pretty sure they would do the same as my grounding probe but I added one anyway just in case. I almost got knocked off my feet again the other day while working on my 4 way light switch in my living room. I turned off the breaker to the room and was unscrewing the wiring when sparks shot out, ha. Turns out two of the switches go to my back patio and even though all 4 switches are in the same box there are two circuit breakers running to it.
My dad is a retired electrician and he keeps telling me to get a live wire checker before I mess with electrical stuff in my house. I've ran 220v and 110v wiring and even installed a mini split at my house and I don't have a clue what I'm doing, ha.
My dad is a retired electrician and he keeps telling me to get a live wire checker before I mess with electrical stuff in my house. I've ran 220v and 110v wiring and even installed a mini split at my house and I don't have a clue what I'm doing, ha.
OP
OP
WallyB
REEF Techno-Geek
I need to get one of those. My Ehiem Glass, like I showed in the Video, Flooded. One other Glass one cracked while moving rocks.Yes, I'm running dual finnex titanium 300w heaters. I'm pretty sure they would do the same as my grounding probe but I added one anyway just in case. I almost got knocked off my feet again the other day while working on my 4 way light switch in my living room. I turned off the breaker to the room and was unscrewing the wiring when sparks shot out, ha. Turns out two of the switches go to my back patio and even though all 4 switches are in the same box there are two circuit breakers running to it.
My dad is a retired electrician and he keeps telling me to get a live wire checker before I mess with electrical stuff in my house. I've ran 220v and 110v wiring and even installed a mini split at my house and I don't have a clue what I'm doing, ha.
Plus the Grounding. Did you ever test the Ground to the Outer Metal of the Heater for conductivity with a Multi-Meter? 99.99% sure it's just like a ground probe.
And as far as you wiring spark Story. Only those that Survive, can tell or joke about it.
I've had that happen at least twice. Once it was working on the Cottage Water Pump in basement. Metal Pliers touched the other Terminal and KABOOM!! Spark flew. Things went totally dark when Fuse blew in the No Window Basement.
For a sec, I thought I was blind.
I still have those pliers, with a Chunk of metal missing from Side. Reminds me to turn off power on Electrical work.
OP
OP
WallyB
REEF Techno-Geek
I am about to order the same Finnex you have. There seem to be two kinds. And what's weird is the less expensive one has a Temperature control unit. The other one doesn't. Wonder why (The more advanced one is less)?Yes, I'm running dual finnex titanium 300w heaters. I'm pretty sure they would do the same as my grounding probe but I added one anyway just in case. I almost got knocked off my feet again the other day while working on my 4 way light switch in my living room. I turned off the breaker to the room and was unscrewing the wiring when sparks shot out, ha. Turns out two of the switches go to my back patio and even though all 4 switches are in the same box there are two circuit breakers running to it.
My dad is a retired electrician and he keeps telling me to get a live wire checker before I mess with electrical stuff in my house. I've ran 220v and 110v wiring and even installed a mini split at my house and I don't have a clue what I'm doing, ha.
I want one that stay always, on an my Apex will control when off.
These Finnex unit seem to also have overhead protection. I like that.
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I use two of the heaters above and two of these controllers. I have them plugged into my apex and only set to turn off by the apex if the temp rises above 82. Otherwise the finnex controllers control the temp.
In the past two weeks my temp has stayed under a degree of fluctuation which is fine by me. Especially since I have 4 t5 lights and 5 kessils that put off alot of heat.
In the past two weeks my temp has stayed under a degree of fluctuation which is fine by me. Especially since I have 4 t5 lights and 5 kessils that put off alot of heat.
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swiss1939
Active Member
Will a ground probe work on a gfci outlet in a really old house where there is not actually a ground wire connected to the outlet? GFCI outlet is wired point of sale/neg no ground wire and the only functionality is the internal breaker in the GFCI outlet? I am setting up a tank in the only place I have available in my livingroom and I live in a really old apartment building with ancient fiber wrapped wire. There is only one outlet in that whole side of the room along that wall which was a two prong outlet. I have replaced that outlet with a GFCI one in prep for setting this tank up to at least get that basic level of protection but am curious if a grounding probe is still going to do its job in that wiring configuration?
OP
OP
WallyB
REEF Techno-Geek
hmmmmm.
I'm not an expert on doing stuff like this.....
Interesting question. BE CAREFUL, what you are saying sounds like it WILL NOT work for Safety.
Not if GFCI is not Grounded to TANK and vise versa. Your Ground probe AND GFCI Ground Terminal has to be connected to some common ground.
So what you are saying is:
- You will install a GFCI outlet, and run a Ground probe to Tank connected the the GFCI ground
- However the GROUND for both the (Outlet and Ground Probe) will not be connected to a Real House Ground.
------> The Reason is your old wiring is just two Wires and no House Ground Wire available at the location.
- NOTE: If the ground probe falls out of the Tank, you have ZERO SAFETY.
My gut feeling is (this isn't safest thing), but (technically it may work to trip the GFCI, since you created what's called a CHASSIS Ground, which means the GFCI will sense a Current Leak into the Tank Ground, Not House Ground ).
Everything you plug in must be plugged into GFCI outlet. No other Un-Protected outlets!!
I'm not expert, so don't do this unless you ask a qualified individual. (No Electrician would allow you to do that, based on ELECTRICAL CODE).
I am not giving you advice, just a warning, to stop your from doing something DANGEROUS.
Best to ask @Brew12 (he may or may not have an answer)
swiss1939
Active Member
This is exactly my thought. Technically it is not really grounded as there is no common house ground in these old buildings. But I am hoping that adding a GFCI outlet will at least provide some level of protection through the outlets internal breaker. After reading your thread though this makes me question if even with this GFCI outlet, but no common house ground, there is any level of increased protection from the GFCI outlet wired without house ground. Not a fan of electrical and this is a perfect example of why! Unfortunately there is no way my landlord will rewire the electrical in this building. I would say that 70% of the buildings i've lived in over the past 16 years in NYC all do not have 3 wire systems with an actual grounding wire to a ground stake or what not, and in my opinion, it should be required for them to upgrade their electrical as that stuff running through walls is ancient fiber wrapped electrical cable. God knows how much of that fiber wrapping has decayed or been chewed off by pests and has left open wires creating electrical hazards.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Thanks for the invite!
Two parts to this. First, yes, the GFCI will offer protection. It isn't ideal, but it will still work as intended. Fault current doesn't have to go through you to a building ground to trip a GFCI, it only has to go somewhere other than between the hot and neutral.
The ground probe will serve no purpose if it is not connected to a ground. It doesn't sound like this is an option for you, so I see no reason to use one.
Does that help?
swiss1939
Active Member
Not the ideal setup, but better than if I hadn't added the GFCI outlet. I stumbled upon the ground probe topic and wondered about if that was an additional level of protection I could use, but wasn't sure if it would do anything in my circumstance. Thanks for the straightforward answer!
OP
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WallyB
REEF Techno-Geek
THanks @Brew12
Just to clarify....Since I like to ensure people get ACCURATE FACTS.
My comment below (stated in post above) was WRONG!!
- NOTE: If the ground probe falls out of the Tank, you have ZERO SAFETY.
This explains GFCI nicely (and that Grounding isn't needed) https://www.mytechreviewer.com/how-does-a-gfci-outlet-work/
I personally like Ground Probes since I hate getting the Non-Life Threatening Zaps (if GFCI is functional)
Downside is it can trip your GFCI when you are away.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I run a ground probe to protect my tank inhabitants. Actually... I don't run a ground probe anymore, but my titanium heaters act like a ground probe so it made the ground probe irrelevant. I get a chuckle out of how many people claim they would never use a ground probe but then use titanium heaters.
I have seen systems where a glass heater shatters in a sump but remains energized and ends up killing a tank. I've seen people who had powerheads fail and leach copper into their systems for months before they finally figured out why their coral died. It isn't uncommon for those situations to require a complete tank tear down.
With a ground probe and GFCI combination, if a heater or pump fails then the GFCI should trip immediately. Its an immediate warning telling me I need to take an action.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Not all titanium heaters act as ground probes, but most of them do. A ground probe is a titanium tube with a ground wire attached to that tube. Most titanium heaters are titanium tubes with a ground wire attached and a heating element inside.
From an electrical perspective, they function exactly the same.
You will find some titanium heaters that only have a 2 prong plug but they aren't as common. Those would not act like a ground probe.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I'm not assuming anything. A 3 prong titanium heater will make a much better ground probe, and have much higher fault carrying capacity, than a typical ground probe. The titanium heaters use smaller gauge wires and have more titanium surface area than the ground probes do.
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