#1 WHAT IF I TOLD YOU... Ammonia is causing your algae problems?
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I don’t think many do. I find some of those types of articles interesting, currently digging anything regarding coral nutrition myself. But most just would like a nice looking tank. Don’t care where the algae is coming from, but knowing how to get rid of it is needed. I’d disagree that everyone should know that stuff too. It’s helpful sure. But many can maintain a beautiful tank with healthy thriving inhabitants while being blissfully ignorant of most science behind it. Just as much as a Marine Biologist or a chemist may struggle to maintain a good tank while knowing all the little details behind it. And really that’s part of what can make the hobby great. Shouldn’t need a PHD to enjoy it. Don’t need to even be scientifically inclined. Just need to know how to care for your tank.
I am sad. I am sad for even entertaining the idea that people want the fruit without the labor, the power without the knowledge and to reap without sowing. We are taking about creatures taken from the ocean and they deserve to be cared for by people who understand what they need. These articles that people are suggesting be forsaken are written for hobbyists to understand at a level that they can apply and most take less than 5-10 minutes to read - except for stuff on ORP, which I still struggle with. If any of us were abducted by aliens, we would all hope that our captors could be bothered to read a few articles every now and then that might account for 3-4 hours over the course of an entire hobby.
I would like $10,000,000. I don't want to take the time to earn it, though. Somebody just tell me where I can get it. PM will work.
;Oldman <-- for Salty
I would like $10,000,000. I don't want to take the time to earn it, though. Somebody just tell me where I can get it. PM will work.
;Oldman <-- for Salty
I apologise if this comes out wrong but I guess I'm a little confused about what you're suggesting? Are you saying that many people here want the benefits of a reef tank without putting the effort in and learning? If so, many of us are here to learn. Personally, this is my go-to site when I have questions.
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@jda Well heres what I came up with as I cook my dinner.
People have to start cooking grilled cheese before they make a 5 course meal with beef wellington.
They arent gonna magically get to making beff wellington. Eventually they'll learn the necessary techniques to get to where they want to be and acheive their goal, or theyll get frusterated and quit.
I dont beleive you can teach somebody the necessary skills to run sps tank in 500-1000 hours. And nobodys gonna research for 500-1000 hours before they start their first tank. So you're just gonna have to snap out of it and come back to reality for a little bit lol.
People have to start cooking grilled cheese before they make a 5 course meal with beef wellington.
They arent gonna magically get to making beff wellington. Eventually they'll learn the necessary techniques to get to where they want to be and acheive their goal, or theyll get frusterated and quit.
I dont beleive you can teach somebody the necessary skills to run sps tank in 500-1000 hours. And nobodys gonna research for 500-1000 hours before they start their first tank. So you're just gonna have to snap out of it and come back to reality for a little bit lol.
I hope not. I am here to help - that is why I log in. The post above mine seemed to suggest this - a "blissfully ignorant" approach. If so, then I am sad for the hobby. This is also why so many smart folks have written all kinds of stuff to both educate and directly apply to their reefs.
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If I read it pessimistically, then I guess I could manage to make sound it that way.
If I try and read it optimistically, then what hes saying is that when it all comes down to it, taking care of fish and understanding the basics is not rocket science. Anybody can do it if they try and learn. Once they learn the basics and gain more interest in the hobby, then they have all the technical information available to them and can dive in. Knowing more at that point will help them absorb more of what's trying to be said. They'll be able to form their own opinions and their own ideas from what they read, rather than trying to just keep up.
However
Ignoring the technical information in the long run after you've learned the basics is just plain laziness or disinterest.
If I try and read it optimistically, then what hes saying is that when it all comes down to it, taking care of fish and understanding the basics is not rocket science. Anybody can do it if they try and learn. Once they learn the basics and gain more interest in the hobby, then they have all the technical information available to them and can dive in. Knowing more at that point will help them absorb more of what's trying to be said. They'll be able to form their own opinions and their own ideas from what they read, rather than trying to just keep up.
However
Ignoring the technical information in the long run after you've learned the basics is just plain laziness or disinterest.
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Not all black sands are equal. I have black sand (Nature's Ocean), no issues. CaribSea on the other hand, is full of heavy metals. I have four ICP results with no heavy metal issues. Dont discount something on that alone. As for this bible, much like the original, it is based on faith rather than fact.
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Natures ocean is what was used in the 75G as well..
Hemmdog
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Oh nice. Yea I was referring to Tahitian moon sand. Didn’t mean to knock all black sand reefers
There are those that want to learn more and those that don’t care to. I don’t see why that’s a problem. Applying your beliefs to everyone makes little sense. Not everyone cares to learn some of the chemistry behind their tank. If they are running a tank and the corals and fish are happy and healthy, who’s to tell them they need to learn more than they want to?
Just adding in some fun things found in this articles and in the Chemistry forum... Nearly all ammonia and phosphate is excreted in urine. Fish poop does not have much of either, but some. Dr. Holmes-Farley said that he was an expert in phosphate metabolism and this was in his wheelhouse. Most detritus is benign before it ever settles down long enough to "gum up the works" and while it needs managed, there is no need to rush to get it out. Even with no ammonia, excess nitrate can fuel all living organisms, so in a continuing ecosystem, ammonia can be a fuel, but even if you remove that fuel by removing your fish or cutting feedings, the organisms can still thrive with the excess nitrogen that was already there. Lastly, the end game is having the bacteria to turn nitrate into nitrogen gas - these can take a year, or so, to grow.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/substrate-vacuuming-an-analysis.494690/#post-5317886
Chemical analysis of detritus
Dan P and Jim from the chem forum are serious chemists it’s nice to read what they post.
Julian I see you lurking and yes your early article on detritus composition comes to mind, old tank syndrome, eutrophication biology
Chemical analysis of detritus
Dan P and Jim from the chem forum are serious chemists it’s nice to read what they post.
Julian I see you lurking and yes your early article on detritus composition comes to mind, old tank syndrome, eutrophication biology
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I bet you didn’t know you share many aspects with peroxide works Fish Sticks
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/
We never dosed it into the tank not once. All directed work. happy tanks, with follow up
Dosing into the water is so 2007
We’re anti detritus too, in fact it’s 80% of the method. I’m not really interested in anyone posting there who doesn’t want to take their whole tank apart and de cloud it of filth that turns into a water cloud upon slightest disturbance
peroxide opens with a 24 page volley:
-highly predictable. We’re forecasting what, when and where then collecting it
-90% of people love storing up detritus because the passionate portion of the hobby tells them to, please do keep it up and 24 pages will be 240 soon. The cloud you store reinforces algae, which then catches its own detritus in the fronds, for more feeding. You and I agree on detritus impacts, we just get better regrowth control with the directed peroxide surgery.
-no losses for pages, we never recycle anything. No fish loss no coral
-find nontarget losses in the thread, they say peroxide kills bacteria and small animals. Does not
-peroxide is among the most powerful reefing tools discovered says the going work example so far
Thanks Justin Credabel.
I realize there’s ten better and more accepted ways than peroxide to beat algae, show me the link. Don’t post algae turf scrubber threads I agree they’re legit, they produce after pics.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/
We never dosed it into the tank not once. All directed work. happy tanks, with follow up
Dosing into the water is so 2007
We’re anti detritus too, in fact it’s 80% of the method. I’m not really interested in anyone posting there who doesn’t want to take their whole tank apart and de cloud it of filth that turns into a water cloud upon slightest disturbance
peroxide opens with a 24 page volley:
-highly predictable. We’re forecasting what, when and where then collecting it
-90% of people love storing up detritus because the passionate portion of the hobby tells them to, please do keep it up and 24 pages will be 240 soon. The cloud you store reinforces algae, which then catches its own detritus in the fronds, for more feeding. You and I agree on detritus impacts, we just get better regrowth control with the directed peroxide surgery.
-no losses for pages, we never recycle anything. No fish loss no coral
-find nontarget losses in the thread, they say peroxide kills bacteria and small animals. Does not
-peroxide is among the most powerful reefing tools discovered says the going work example so far
Thanks Justin Credabel.
I realize there’s ten better and more accepted ways than peroxide to beat algae, show me the link. Don’t post algae turf scrubber threads I agree they’re legit, they produce after pics.
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According to the ammonia - For the book - it is valid for us but not for fish and especially not saltwater species (they not pee so much – if all) The excretion of ammonium occurs instead via specific cells / channels in the gills of aquatic organisms such as fish. Some people also highlite passive diffusion of NH3 (ammonia gas)
Is not - it is a analyze of pore water content of inorganic P and N in a sandbed from a 4 year only fish tank. And it show the same result as all similar investigation in natural sediments. It also indicate that stirring will release PO4 up to the water column. In an anaerobic flow through reactor - I have measured up to over 100 times higer PO4 and NH3/NH4 in the middle compared with the water before and after the reactor. The concentration of PO4 anf NH3/NH4 in the water was higher before the reactor compared with after. The reactor was not cleaned for 10 years.
It is important to stress that the word detritus have another meaning for an ecologist compared to a geologist. When a ecologist talk about detritus - he/she means more or less decomposed organic matter (bacteria biomass and organic leftover, still not mineralized, together with newly mineralized compounds). Detritus for a geologist means inorganic, mineralized compounds. For me – the detritus in my aquarium is the factory of life – it is here the magic happens and the circuit is closed and start again. The mineralized part is taken out of business and become sand, silty but still sand.
Sincerely Lasse
Peroxide = disinfectant that can be compared with active chlorins way of function. In very, very low concentrations it can be helpful to use in order to get rid of the yellow substances thats is a result of decomposing of organic matter.
I´m agree with @Fish_Stics that use peroxide in order too kill algae is not a good way because it leaves you with a situation that demand a new start of the aquarium - however the use of oxydators is not the same.
Sincerely Lasse
I´m agree with @Fish_Stics that use peroxide in order too kill algae is not a good way because it leaves you with a situation that demand a new start of the aquarium - however the use of oxydators is not the same.
Sincerely Lasse
Gotcha that peroxide is no good the logged examples only matter to the actual tank owners in the thread. I’m waiting for the first example here not using peroxide so we can compare notes, and outcomes. When you guys post four worked tanks, we can check for patterns. Till then, looks like peroxide holds all the work examples for this thread... literally 100%, the opening paragraph says to not use peroxide so that’s ironic. I thought a 24 pager link might put that claim in the right context.
You guys have a lot of work to do
The standard for making claims doesn’t come from our own tanks, it must come from logged work in others tanks.
the logged examples only matter to the actual tank owners in the thread. I’m waiting for the first example here not using peroxide so we can compare notes, and outcomes. When you guys post four worked tanks, we can check for patterns. Till then, looks like peroxide holds all the work examples for this thread... literally 100%, the opening paragraph says to not use peroxide so that’s ironic. I thought a 24 pager link might put that claim in the right context.You guys have a lot of work to do
The standard for making claims doesn’t come from our own tanks, it must come from logged work in others tanks.
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We’re merely comparing claims to examples, strikes me as a fair request doesn’t seem personal. If you have something to contribute pls do
How else are a bunch of claims going to be balanced and tested, we post what we have to work with
Algae control is probably the least advanced portion of our hobby, thousands of losses still occur from uncontrolled invasions, good to see actual works where possible. The opening statement of this thread is now in challenge and that’s good for loss control/evolving our science. To be honest, the claim for posting an algae ‘Bible’ called for the counterbalance. Edit that part to state an algae ‘guideline’ and edit out the anti peroxide stuff until peroxide doesn’t provide the sole working example for the whole thread.
How else are a bunch of claims going to be balanced and tested, we post what we have to work with
Algae control is probably the least advanced portion of our hobby, thousands of losses still occur from uncontrolled invasions, good to see actual works where possible. The opening statement of this thread is now in challenge and that’s good for loss control/evolving our science. To be honest, the claim for posting an algae ‘Bible’ called for the counterbalance. Edit that part to state an algae ‘guideline’ and edit out the anti peroxide stuff until peroxide doesn’t provide the sole working example for the whole thread.
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