500g shark pond placement

Max The New reefer

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hello, I intend (not for a bit cause Covid) on making a 500 gallon shark and stingray tank what I want to do is get a 500 gallon rubber or plastic tank which is about 300 dollars and then piecing together the rest of the equitment. i want 2 bamboo sharks and a round stingray. the issue is, where am I gonna place a tank that's 86" long? I live in California but in nor cal so the coldest it gets is about 30 degrees fahrenheit, and it rains in the winter, in summer it gets as hot as 105 degrees, I have a big garage but I don't know if my dad would be very supporting of that in are garage also considering his girlfriend is breeding Plecos and Geophagaus in there, so could I but it outside with a heater and chiller? and what ways could I lower the cost of this tank, I know its probably gonna be over 1000 dollars, but I wanna keep it under 2000, I'd probably have to do stuff around the house and save money from b-day and christmas etc... btw I'm under I'm 14 so getting a real job is out of the picture. Tl;DR how can I shorten the cost of my shark tank, and where should I place it.
 

ichthyogeek

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Well your first step before buying the tank is to see if you can actually keep the sharks in a 500 gallon. Have you checked here to see if the tank will be big enough in terms of dimensions (both length and width are important!) ? I believe that bamboo sharks would be considered walking benthics or inactive benthics. Have you acquired a copy of the Elasmobranch Husbandry Manual? If not, I've attached it as a file for you to download.

Taking your PM into concern (I'm quoting it below):
I want a bamboo shark nothing else, a a bamboo shark and I would but him in a big stock water trough and have sand and live rock, could I get away with a 200 or 300 gallon tank? live aquaria recommends a 360g tank, which is to big, my dad says over 300 is to big, also, where and how can I get the equitment for a shark? and what equitment does a shark need? if you could help me, or point me towards some resources that could help me that be awesome, also could I put it outside with a chiller and heater combo? where I live the hottest it gets in the summer is 100 degrees F and coldest is 30 degrees F, I'm also on a slight budget so if there is stuff i could do diy for cheaper thats important, Thanks Max
Yeah I don't trust LiveAquaria's large animal estimates. Their small fish estimates seem to be pretty good, but for larger fish, your best bet is to go with public aquarium resources (cough* @Jay Hemdal *cough). To answer your question: no, I don't think you could get away with a 200-300 gallon aquarium for a bamboo shark. I don't believe it would be ethical to keep a shark that maxes out at 3.5' in a tank that might be 6'x4'x2'.
 

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Max The New reefer

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Well your first step before buying the tank is to see if you can actually keep the sharks in a 500 gallon. Have you checked here to see if the tank will be big enough in terms of dimensions (both length and width are important!) ? I believe that bamboo sharks would be considered walking benthics or inactive benthics. Have you acquired a copy of the Elasmobranch Husbandry Manual? If not, I've attached it as a file for you to download.

Taking your PM into concern (I'm quoting it below):

Yeah I don't trust LiveAquaria's large animal estimates. Their small fish estimates seem to be pretty good, but for larger fish, your best bet is to go with public aquarium resources (cough* @Jay Hemdal *cough). To answer your question: no, I don't think you could get away with a 200-300 gallon aquarium for a bamboo shark. I don't believe it would be ethical to keep a shark that maxes out at 3.5' in a tank that might be 6'x4'x2'.
so what size can I keep a shark in? I'm guessing 500 gallons
 
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Max The New reefer

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Well your first step before buying the tank is to see if you can actually keep the sharks in a 500 gallon. Have you checked here to see if the tank will be big enough in terms of dimensions (both length and width are important!) ? I believe that bamboo sharks would be considered walking benthics or inactive benthics. Have you acquired a copy of the Elasmobranch Husbandry Manual? If not, I've attached it as a file for you to download.

Taking your PM into concern (I'm quoting it below):

Yeah I don't trust LiveAquaria's large animal estimates. Their small fish estimates seem to be pretty good, but for larger fish, your best bet is to go with public aquarium resources (cough* @Jay Hemdal *cough). To answer your question: no, I don't think you could get away with a 200-300 gallon aquarium for a bamboo shark. I don't believe it would be ethical to keep a shark that maxes out at 3.5' in a tank that might be 6'x4'x2'.
alright I have a different question, the main thing I want out of this tank is a fish thats more of a pet, I was gonna do a small eel, but I love the sharks, but there are other fish that I like that are same idea, eels and rays, are there any rays I could do in a tank this size that I could also maybe do a moray eel with?
 

ichthyogeek

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so what size can I keep a shark in? I'm guessing 500 gallons
Right. middle/high schooler and not an adult. I GOT THIS Y'ALL, IT'S TEACHING TIME. It's like, noon in California anyways on a weekday, I figure it's time for some critical thinking + math skills.

Navigate to the link I showed you. It should show a breakdown of how to calculate minimum footprint of tank for the fish. With the sharks available to you (California has a ban on all requiem sharks, so all the "sharky" looking sharks are out), you're looking at inactive benthics (things like wobbegongs) and walking benthics (catsharks, bamboo sharks, etc.).

You can easily find the size of a shark online. I recommend you look up the bamboo shark species you wanted to keep, along with the coral catshark as well.

Let me know what the minimum footprint for both fish is, and make sure to show your work ;) .
 

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Check out the shark and ray forum. MFK dont know squat about sharks. The people over there have extensive experience & very knowledgeable
 

ichthyogeek

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Check out the shark and ray forum. MFK dont know squat about sharks. The people over there have extensive experience & very knowledgeable
Which shark and ray forum would this one be? SRC's website is down, and their activity on tapatalk is way down....

MFK used to have a lot of big brain people when it came to sharks. Something happened in the last 5 years, and now activity is down, but that doesn't mean that information that was posted there before, isn't still relevant.
 
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Max The New reefer

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Right. middle/high schooler and not an adult. I GOT THIS Y'ALL, IT'S TEACHING TIME. It's like, noon in California anyways on a weekday, I figure it's time for some critical thinking + math skills.

Navigate to the link I showed you. It should show a breakdown of how to calculate minimum footprint of tank for the fish. With the sharks available to you (California has a ban on all requiem sharks, so all the "sharky" looking sharks are out), you're looking at inactive benthics (things like wobbegongs) and walking benthics (catsharks, bamboo sharks, etc.).

You can easily find the size of a shark online. I recommend you look up the bamboo shark species you wanted to keep, along with the coral catshark as well.

Let me know what the minimum footprint for both fish is, and make sure to show your work ;) .
ok, Ptsd from math class that i had a hour ago The answer I AM SURE AS HELL NOT GETTING A SHARK let me show my work though 3x4 is 12 3x1.5=4.5 so 12 long by 4.5 wide in other words NOT GETTING A SHARK. what about rays? I'm curious...
 

ichthyogeek

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alright I have a different question, the main thing I want out of this tank is a fish thats more of a pet, I was gonna do a small eel, but I love the sharks, but there are other fish that I like that are same idea, eels and rays, are there any rays I could do in a tank this size that I could also maybe do a moray eel with?
I would treat rays as walking benthics in the link I hyperlinked to, substituting in Disc Width (DW) for shark length.
ok, Ptsd from math class that i had a hour ago The answer I AM SURE AS HELL NOT GETTING A SHARK let me show my work though 3x4 is 12 3x1.5=4.5 so 12 long by 4.5 wide in other words NOT GETTING A SHARK. what about rays? I'm curious...
So you're close. Real close. I'm actually looking for real answers here though, not approximations. We're going to go through the base footprint required, then I'm gonna teach you about volumes and cubic inch-> gallon conversions.
Bamboo shark: 42". What's the base footprint required?
Coral Catshark: 28". Again, what's the base footprint required?

For rays, go ahead and treat them like an inactive benthic. The ones you'll probably be most interested in are blue spot stingrays(Taeniura lymma) and Cali round rays(Urobatis halleri) . Go ahead and give me the base footprint that those will need as well.
 
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Max The New reefer

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I would treat rays as walking benthics in the link I hyperlinked to, substituting in Disc Width (DW) for shark length.

So you're close. Real close. I'm actually looking for real answers here though, not approximations. We're going to go through the base footprint required, then I'm gonna teach you about volumes and cubic inch-> gallon conversions.
Bamboo shark: 42". What's the base footprint required?
Coral Catshark: 28". Again, what's the base footprint required?

For rays, go ahead and treat them like an inactive benthic. The ones you'll probably be most interested in are blue spot stingrays(Taeniura lymma) and Cali round rays(Urobatis halleri) . Go ahead and give me the base footprint that those will need as well.
oh no why do you do this to me 16"x3=48"=4' 16x1.5=24 so 4' long by 2' wide,
 

ichthyogeek

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oh no why do you do this to me 16"x3=48"=4' 16x1.5=24 so 4' long by 2' wide,
Because it's a weekday, and regardless of it being Zoom central, you should probably still be in class. You're going to learn regardless, might as well make it fun. Aquariums make math and science all SORTS of fun.

I assume the 16" is for some sort of ray? If so, then great job! Now, you're going to want to figure out how high of a tank you want. Too low, and it'll look like a low boi or , too high, and it'll be difficult to maintain. Now's also the time to consider if you're going to be doing a top down viewing tank (ala pond style), or if you want a more traditional side viewing tank.

If you go with a pond style, you might as well save yourself the money, and build it out of plywood. However, as my handle/username implies, I'm a fish geek. I know very very little about construction/plumbing. Hopefully anybody who knows about this type of construction will be able to teach you (and me!) about what stands behind the construction of a good plywood tank. But I digress.

For a 16" fish, you'll probably want something like a 2' tank. So a 4'x2'x2' tank. Now, that sounds remarkably similar to a 180 gallon tank which is 6'x2'x2'...hmmm, I wonder what the total gallonage of a tank like that would be....Because, y'know, 4' is really just 2/3 of 6'....
 
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Max The New reefer

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Because it's a weekday, and regardless of it being Zoom central, you should probably still be in class. You're going to learn regardless, might as well make it fun. Aquariums make math and science all SORTS of fun.

I assume the 16" is for some sort of ray? If so, then great job! Now, you're going to want to figure out how high of a tank you want. Too low, and it'll look like a low boi or , too high, and it'll be difficult to maintain. Now's also the time to consider if you're going to be doing a top down viewing tank (ala pond style), or if you want a more traditional side viewing tank.

If you go with a pond style, you might as well save yourself the money, and build it out of plywood. However, as my handle/username implies, I'm a fish geek. I know very very little about construction/plumbing. Hopefully anybody who knows about this type of construction will be able to teach you (and me!) about what stands behind the construction of a good plywood tank. But I digress.

For a 16" fish, you'll probably want something like a 2' tank. So a 4'x2'x2' tank. Now, that sounds remarkably similar to a 180 gallon tank which is 6'x2'x2'...hmmm, I wonder what the total gallonage of a tank like that would be....Because, y'know, 4' is really just 2/3 of 6'....
120gallons bruh I can do basic math, also its a round ray so 16" is the diameter
 

ichthyogeek

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120gallons bruh I can do basic math, also its a round ray so 16" is the diameter
Honestly meant that last bit to be more sing-songy and less condescendy, so my apologies there. But is a 120 gallon tank (plus life support equipment) within your dad's approval range? You could probably also fit something like a dwarf lion in there as well...
 
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Max The New reefer

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Honestly meant that last bit to be more sing-songy and less condescendy, so my apologies there. But is a 120 gallon tank (plus life support equipment) within your dad's approval range? You could probably also fit something like a dwarf lion in there as well...
oh, I didn't mean to come off condescendy either, could I do a small eel? and can you give me a run down of the equitment I need? and the specs they need?
example powerhead needed gph 3000
 
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Max The New reefer

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Honestly meant that last bit to be more sing-songy and less condescendy, so my apologies there. But is a 120 gallon tank (plus life support equipment) within your dad's approval range? You could probably also fit something like a dwarf lion in there as well...
also can I do it outside? I need a chiller and a heater and I don't know how chillers work, are they literally the opposite of a heater? do you reccomend these ponds outside?
 

ichthyogeek

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Hmmm...I think that's a question for the predator forum really. There's all sorts of dynamics between predators that I'm just not familiar with. Like, you can't keep sharks with eels (go figure). I'm fairly certain that you can do something like a snowflake moray (E. nebulosa), but it's best to check with the experts. Really, I'm just here to make sure that sharks get put in the appropriately sized tank.

As for equipment, base stuff you're going to need are: heavy biofiltration (take your pick of bioballs, sand filters, wet-dry method, macroalgae, etc.), a heater, a chiller, and a protein skimmer. You'll also want to house most of those in a sump (rays are known to burn themselves on heaters), so a weir will be very useful, as will a return pump.

If you put the tank outside, it may be worth seeing if your dad is interested in doing a greenhouse like setup to conserve heat. Your heater and chiller size will depend on this, in addition to whether or not the tank is in the shade (which you should be doing).

I don't think I'd recommend an elasmobranch tank outside. Too many things could go wrong (very small children, birds, smoke from vineyard fires, etc...).
 
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Max The New reefer

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Hmmm...I think that's a question for the predator forum really. There's all sorts of dynamics between predators that I'm just not familiar with. Like, you can't keep sharks with eels (go figure). I'm fairly certain that you can do something like a snowflake moray (E. nebulosa), but it's best to check with the experts. Really, I'm just here to make sure that sharks get put in the appropriately sized tank.

As for equipment, base stuff you're going to need are: heavy biofiltration (take your pick of bioballs, sand filters, wet-dry method, macroalgae, etc.), a heater, a chiller, and a protein skimmer. You'll also want to house most of those in a sump (rays are known to burn themselves on heaters), so a weir will be very useful, as will a return pump.

If you put the tank outside, it may be worth seeing if your dad is interested in doing a greenhouse like setup to conserve heat. Your heater and chiller size will depend on this, in addition to whether or not the tank is in the shade (which you should be doing).

I don't think I'd recommend an elasmobranch tank outside. Too many things could go wrong (very small children, birds, smoke from vineyard fires, etc...).
I can fit a 4'by'2by2' tank in my room! I also have a extra foot in room to the side of it which i could put a cabinet with a sump with filtration, all concealed! this has gone from a dream to a possibility! probably last question for you, how should I light it? I'm not growing anything, so basic led strips hanging maybe?
 

ichthyogeek

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Well...I believe that that handily solves your question on heating vs. chilling. Make sure to draw up a diagram and post it, so that you can get feedback on how to improve it.

Basic cool white LEDs should work. Daylight LEDs work for saltwater as well, but they don't have the "clean" feel to them that cool white does.
 

ichthyogeek

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Totally not silly. I use a drawing program (SketchBook), and very, very carefully draw what I want. Here's an example from my build thread (I think this took a good few hours to draw):
Fish Space 3 Left .png

It's best that you figure out the pixel: inch/foot ratio that you want. that way you can draw things to scale. For example, each of the open spaces between the cinder blocks is 4' across, which lets me figure out that yes, I can have an inch of space between certain tanks, or no space at all.

I know other users have used Excel (still confused on that), Blend (the art program), and there are some really amazing ones where people have used Google SketchUp (I'm still wroking on my sketchup skills).
 
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