A lot of known people dont QUARANTINE!!!

[ca1ore]

I would like to encourage you to read about the Tanji system used at Monterey Bay Aquarium. The link is listed in this thread. You will notice the proper use of U.V. and the article does not mention any prophylactic treatment of the fish...they may, it is just not mentioned and would not play well with their bioreactor filtration design. The systems I designed for my customers follows the same path and those stores experienced less than 3% loss rates. I would strongly recommend this type of QT system if you can afford it instead of the cross your fingers and hope chemotherapy does not kill your fish during or after treatment. The shotgun approach of trying to kill any and all possible disease vectors is in practice very detrimental to the long term health of the fish. I killed way more fish with this approach and much higher loss rates than with proper holding system design. So you could say I advance QT in a proper holding system versus prophylactic chemical means. You can accommodate this just by using proper U.V. on your display system.

Interesting. It has occurred to me that using a large UV on a small QT would be the functional equivalent of TT .... just not as stressful.

 

[Suohhen]

Qt is a hot button topic. Most of these people mentioned on YT are very experienced and can be assumed to know how/where to buy healthy fish and provide them with a healthy environment. They are taking a risk but that is for them to decide and it can be argued that the risks are incredibly low when proper planning and considerations are made.
I am personally not an advocate for skipping qt. But I don't plan the order of each fish introduction and given enough years fish pass and need to be replaced. I also don't provide the absolute optimal diet for my fish as I work and have to rely on an auto feeder and there is 0 guarantee a new fish will eat, let alone eat pellet food.
I would suspect even those who claim not to will qt in special circumstances. So it is their business what they choose to do with their own fish. Now anyone who wants to say qt is somehow a bad thing, that is where I have an issue.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Hello guys I am so so so confused. Should i quarantine or not? A lot of “famous” people on youtube like reef dork, inappropriate reefer, and fish of hex dont quarantine their fish and they have proof of how successful their reef tanks are.

Based on my experience I am an advocate of 1-4 months of quarantining your fish, because i have personally lost thousands and thousands of dollars after not quarantining before on my Fowlr and my nano reef years back.

Now once again I am seeing a lot of people not quarantining fish. I just started my new aquarium and I heard before that I should quarantine before putting it on my DT but what if there are 0 live stocks in there other than a quarantined sps and CUC.

I've never heard of any of these ppl... Regardless, do what makes sense for you for your level of risk tolerance.

 

[KrisReef]

I hope to convince at least some of you that the decision to not QT has nothing to do with dice or chance one day.

It has everything to do with how you establish your system from day one. It has everything to do with how you run it everyday.

Not to argue, (much), but other people are talking about purchasing Amazon, Google-searched, name your species fish from a reputable on-line fish-house as the source of their soon-to-be acquired livestock. I use a qt-method myself for all my fish purchase; I have the petstore sale person qt my fish in their own plastic bag where I can observe before I dump on arrival.

Point being, I think there is a bit of a difference between lfs purchases and online purchases, and local hobbist to hobbist purchases that play into the discussion of the decision to qt or not. I just wanted to mention that point here for folks to consider.

IME
I recently bought a harlequin tusk from a lfs. I couldn't really see the fish so I asked the saled person if the fish looked ok, got a yes answer and bought the fish. It wasn't ok, it had been savagely bitten on the left pectoral fin. The fish kept it's left side concealed by keeping the right side facing the front of the store tank or else even I should have seen the injury and passed on the purchase if I had observed longer, but I was in a hurry that day.

Upon arrival I carelessly dumped the infected fish into a fishless tank in my system and I fed the fish lightly. The next day the fish was hiding and when I fed again I observed the half missing pectoral and white slime infection and it was then I realized I had been had by an unscrupulous LFS dude. I immediately moved into action to deal with the vector-contagion by feeding copious amounts of food to the entire tank for the next two weeks. I also added a second tang to the tusks tank to keep him company. I have had a deadly outbreak of algae from the extra feeding but the fish are looking fine and improving daily.

 

[jeffp1]

I bought my first clownfish 25 years ago and still have it. I have never quarantined a fish. Might be just luck. Do what you feel is necessary.

 

[kenchilada]

Most of these people mentioned on YT are very experienced and can be assumed to know how/where to buy healthy fish and provide them with a healthy environment.

Gotta disagree. The majority of YT streamers are not experienced veterans. Many are there to make money from vendor/product endorsements, others just want to share their journey, some are hot click-bait garbage.

There are very few channels I would take advice from. Coral Euphoria comes to mind.

Some channels are great for entertainment purposes. Me and the kids watch Inappropriate Reefer weekly, he's a straight shooter and fun to watch. I watch BRSTv sometimes - although their advice is frequently terrible, it makes for good TV.

 

[WVNed]

Not to argue, (much), but other people are talking about purchasing Amazon, Google-searched, name your species fish from a reputable on-line fish-house as the source of their soon-to-be acquired livestock. I use a qt-method myself for all my fish purchase; I have the petstore sale person qt my fish in their own plastic bag where I can observe before I dump on arrival.

Point being, I think there is a bit of a difference between lfs purchases and online purchases, and local hobbist to hobbist purchases that play into the discussion of the decision to qt or not. I just wanted to mention that point here for folks to consider.

IME
I recently bought a harlequin tusk from a lfs. I couldn't really see the fish so I asked the saled person if the fish looked ok, got a yes answer and bought the fish. It wasn't ok, it had been savagely bitten on the left pectoral fin. The fish kept it's left side concealed by keeping the right side facing the front of the store tank or else even I should have seen the injury and passed on the purchase if I had observed longer, but I was in a hurry that day.

Upon arrival I carelessly dumped the infected fish into a fishless tank in my system and I fed the fish lightly. The next day the fish was hiding and when I fed again I observed the half missing pectoral and white slime infection and it was then I realized I had been had by an unscrupulous LFS dude. I immediately moved into action to deal with the vector-contagion by feeding copious amounts of food to the entire tank for the next two weeks. I also added a second tang to the tusks tank to keep him company. I have had a deadly outbreak of algae from the extra feeding but the fish are looking fine and improving daily.

Perhaps I am dense but your post made no sense to me in relation to what I said.

The vast majority of my fish have come from online purchases. I don't have a LFS anymore except Petco and they haven't had anything appropriate to put in my tank in a long time. I think my last local purchase was my first snowflake eel at Inland Reef but they kind of quit. The last 2 times I was there the salt tanks were empty.

 

[kenchilada]

Upon arrival I carelessly dumped the infected fish into a fishless tank in my system and I fed the fish lightly. The next day the fish was hiding and when I fed again I observed the half missing pectoral and white slime infection and it was then I realized I had been had by an unscrupulous LFS dude. I immediately moved into action to deal with the vector-contagion by feeding copious amounts of food to the entire tank for the next two weeks. I also added a second tang to the tusks tank to keep him company. I have had a deadly outbreak of algae from the extra feeding but the fish are looking fine and improving daily.

Treating a bacterial infection by dumping in extra food and adding a tang?

 

[shred5]

Things have changed in the hobby and I think now it is more important than ever to quarantine.

More fish are coming in than ever from different parts of the world. They are being mixed in with fish from different parts of the world and being exposed to different diseases they have never been exposed too. Wholesalers are mixing them together. Uronema is far more rampant.

Tank raised fish have no resistance to any disease because they have not been exposed to any.

Honestly I never did for like 20 years in the hobby till one time I lost them all. Almost pushed me out of the hobby.

Honestly we need to do better as a hobby from wholesaler, retailer to us. If not our hobby will keep being under attack and more shut downs will happen.

 

[WVNed]

My tanks are full now. I must resist adding anything else. Perhaps some new clean up crew members sometimes.
My last addition was a 3rd lion to my 75.

I guess I got lucky to the end.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

What about using Safety Stop?
I've seen that Melevsreef uses it and is an extremely educated and experienced reefer. I am actually thinking of trying it on my next fish.

 

[Suohhen]

Gotta disagree. The majority of YT streamers are not experienced veterans. Many are there to make money from vendor/product endorsements, others just want to share their journey, some are hot click-bait garbage.

There are very few channels I would take advice from. Coral Euphoria comes to mind.

Some channels are great for entertainment purposes. Me and the kids watch Inappropriate Reefer weekly, he's a straight shooter and fun to watch. I watch BRSTv sometimes - although their advice is frequently terrible, it makes for good TV.

Looks like the controversial topic is actually YT and not QT.

 

[GeoSquid]

I've been keeping saltwater fish since 1990 - never quarantined and never lost a fish to disease. I have learned a few things recently from Paul B. I've always made my own fish food from frozen packs of mixed seafood. I think this is much better than any dry food or other frozen fish food. But...I added a new fish 5 mos ago and 3 of my 7 fish came down with ICK for the first time ever. I started feeding white worms, fresh frozen clams and oysters that I shuck myself. ICK cleared up in a week and since, two of my clowns started spawning. There really is something to gut bacteria and immunity and health. Frozen fish foods and even mixed bag of seafood I was using don't have live bacteria. Paul relates quarantine and medication to a cancer patient. The medicines kill all the fish's immunity and they can't fight anything off.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

Inappropriate Reefer here - I don't have a QT set up, I buy my more sensitive fish from LFS that already QTed & conditioned them, and if there is an option to buy a QT vs. non-QT fish, I'd gladly opt for the former for a bit more. For fish that did not come QTed, I have been using Safety Stops dip on fish that are OK to use them on, it is not QT but to me it is better than nothing.

I have not had any bad encounter with fish disease in any of my systems up to this point, maybe my view would change down the road. Regardless, if you are on the fence and have the ability to set up a QT system, it would only help and there is no reason not to go for it, unless you are dealing with certain species that have a better chance going straight into the DT and you are comfortable with the risk associated?

I call my channel the "Inappropriate Reefer" for a reason, it is mostly to document my own journey as a hobbyist, who, like most hobbyists, may not always follow the best-practices when no one is looking (except I share mine). There are things I know I do/did that are questionable (namely, I used to use tap water for my tanks for years -- worked, but I learned that there are better ways; I also had a 65g tank with no sump, no skimmer, no media... also worked, but water changes sucked... etc). You are smarter than me, do what you think is appropriate to your situation and choose your source of information wisely.

Loving your channel, keep up the great work

 

[TheDragonsReef]

So me and my grandfather have kept a 265g system for about 15years now never quarantined, only lost a fish here and there. However ich is definitely in the tank, whenever theres a problem and the fish are stressed youll see some spots show up. This tank is in ich management and with how big the fish are i couldnt even go fallow if i wanted to. Ive also kept multiple tanks as well during that time and never quarantined. Lost a few to diesease but never had a tank wide outbreak. However i started a 75g december 2019 and had a velvet outbreak 5 months in. Lost every single fish in the tank.

Between the velvet outbreak and dealing with ich in the 265g i decided i wanted a disease free tank. Started up a qt tank, 75 went fallow for 72 days. Havent lost a single fish since. Every fish has done extremely well throughout the qt process and i know im putting healthy fish into my tanks.

Its a gamble just like anything else. So heres my opinion. I highly recommend qt. If you dont want to qt, thats fine, BUT absolutely get a medical tank that can fit all your fish incase your fish do get sick so you dont have to nuke the display tank with meds. All it takes is getting one of the big ones like velvet, brook, uroma, or even internal parasites to wipe out every last one of your fish. The bigger your tank, the more fish you have and the more important qt becomes.

 

[JSchwarz]

Here's an example of a Youtuber showing the potential downfall of not quarantining. A lot of people won't show these things. He lost 8 year old clownfish while along with all but 2 fish due to velvet while stocking a new tank. He even did an observation QT for a month before adding.



I think many people who push not quarantining are trying to justify their decision they know is risky by convincing others to do it with them. I understand not doing QT for a small tank where you can easily move fish if there is an issue, but for large tanks the risk isn't worth it to me. I can't imagine losing my 5 year old clownfish while upgrading my tank just because I don't want to spend some extra time or money while adding new fish.

 

[WVNed]

LOL
Risky Business

Lets look at some nice fish and stop beating the dead horse
Right there is my new lion I got yesterday
A fuzzy dwarf

I had one and an urchin pitched a rock down on him and squished him. I got a dwarf zebra but wasnt happy so I got another fuzzy.

Are they posting about that again?

Here are my chromis plotting to do each other in.

Sneaked that one in
How about some tank ****
2 Urchins and One Pump Rated X

 

[brandon429]

neat thread


reefers are relaying practical information


ive distilled the argument down to this: click the fish disease forum here. Read first ten pages


what methods are being used


what methods are never used there but touted in the general forum

reread the disease thread again first ten pages

whats used for cures amd diagnostics and fixes on file there, vs what’s being used and recommended in the general forum


is garlic curing issues there


how about display bottle dosers that fix disease in a display without quarantining

do zoos use those items, any stickies in the disease forum for those?


always go back and forth between the disease forum, and then in the chat forums to find the gradients at work

given the two researched options, choose the one you think has the best chance of working.


report back here eight months after your reef is set up


theres no way what I typed can inflame anyone. It’s merely a click exercise to find easy standout patterns

if you got that much indication going into a Vegas blackjack game, they’d never let you come back after the first run.

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Doctorgori]

Auto insurance is a waste of $$ also if you never have an accident...
....one size don’t fit all: it’s one thing to throw a fish in a established diverse tank with REAL live rock vs a dry rock “pest free” tank ....
I get it tho; Certain species don’t qt well, so I try and risk a shorter period for those...

 

[Ardeus]

What about using Safety Stop?
I've seen that Melevsreef uses it and is an extremely educated and experienced reefer. I am actually thinking of trying it on my next fish.

He's a frightened optimist . He's scared enough, so he does something, but he's also an optimist and he believes that that something will be enough.

He knows that safety stop is far from 100% safe and having fish as old as he has, it's surprising that he doesn't quarentine.

I had 1 terrible experience years ago and I reached a point where my tank is closed to any wet thing apart from water and frozen food.

Not a single coral will ever enter my tank and I will only consider getting more fish after at least half of my fish population is gone. In fact, it's more likely that I will never get another fish.

Why? I hear too many horror stories of people that reach out to me when they get new fish and they are sick. My fish are pets and I don't want to risk their lives.

Furthermore, quarentines are not 100% bullet proof and often end up killing new arrivals that would otherwise survive, had they been directly introduced to a mature system instead. I'm just not willing to deal with this moral dilemma anymore.