Add new fish...what will work?

[wunderlong88]

I have 180 gal (240 system) mixed reef tank (soft corals only).

Current inhabitants:
Line Spot Flasher Wrasse
Maldivers McCoskers Flasher Wrasse
Dusky Wrasse
Diamond Watchman Goby
Starry Blenny
Purple Firefish
Coral Beauty Angel
Bicolored Foxface

Thinking about my next additions and the distant future. I don't want to add fish that prevent later additions that I really want!

Considering (* or ** really want!)
*2 Ocelleris Clowns (for my Black Widow Anemone, hopefully!)
*2-3 Wrasses - Melanurus Wrasse, Rainbow Wrasse, Naoko's Fairy Wrasse, Lineatus Wrasse, Solar Fairy, Blue Star Leopard or others!
Tailspot Blenny OR Midas Blenny
Flame Hawkfish
*Wheeler's Watchman Goby or Yellow Watchman Goby (for my lonely pistol shrimp)
*Flame Angel OR Flameback Angel
**Mandarin Goby (High on my list of wants, waiting for tank to be older (prob another 12 mos and trying to est. my white worm culture)


Centerpiece Fish - How many of these can I put together? LOL! I don't love my Foxface and might give him up at some point to be able to have more of these below.
*Longnose Butterfly (not sure if this is too hard) OR *Pyramid Butterfly (would love a group of 3 if that would work and I end having the room)
Purple Tang OR White Tail Kole Tang
Regal Angel

In a 6' tank will I have a problem adding both a Watchman Goby and eventually a Mandarin Dragonet with my current residents? What about one of the blennies (Tailspot or Midas)? I wasn't sure about the blenny/goby/dragonet/firefish compatibilities. I definitely want the dragonet someday and would add the Watchman if possible and then one of the Blennies also if that is still an option.

I want everything on my list, of course! Really loving wrasses, still hoping for some other smallish gobies and some centerpiece fish.

Thank you!

 

[smitten with ocean life]

#reefsquad

 

[Biokabe]

A 180g tank gives you a lot of options.

To address each of your wants:

1) 2 Ocelleris Clowns
This is fine, though I wouldn't pin my hopes on them hosting in a BTA (I believe the Black Widow is a BTA). My pink skunk clown immediately took to my BTA, but I've heard the Ocellaris are less enthusiastic about them.

2) Wrasses
I personally would shy away from the Melanarus and Rainbow wrasses. Halichoeres wrasses are not as off-limits as some of the "with caution" reef fish, but they will attack invertebrates that you might want. My Melanarus will attack and kill anything with legs (except for hermits), and some will kill snails. Overall, they just make things more difficult than they need to be. Beautiful fish with interesting personalities, that's for sure.

Be aware that, specifically with the solar fairy, some people have reported aggression from Melanarus wrasses. I haven't seen this myself... but when I picked up a solar fairy myself, it didn't even last a day. It had been surviving and eating just fine at the LFS for more than a week when I picked it up, and seemed happy and healthy while doing its initial exploration... but it was dead as a doornail in the morning after getting added. Coincidence? Possibly. I didn't see it get bullied and attacked, so I can't 100% say that's what happened.

Other than that, look up the wrasse compatibility chart to see which wrasses will be most compatible with what you already have.

3) Tailspot or Midas blenny
This is kind of iffy with a Starry already in the tank. You might have enough space for them to co-exist, but it's always a risk when mixing blennies. They can get angry at the presence of another and may squabble or even attack the other blenny.

4) Flame Hawkfish
Most people don't report issues with them, except that hawks in general will sometimes attack sand-dwelling fish. So your watchman gobies could be at risk. Doesn't seem to be as much of an issue when the hawk is well-fed, but it is a concern. I have had a different species of hawk rip another fish apart, which I didn't think would be possible with the size of its mouth... but it was very persistent and took it apart over the course of many hours. I don't think a flame would do the same thing, but it's something to be aware of.

5) Watchman gobies
No issues here, at least not coming from the gobies.

6) Flame/Flameback Angel
They're dwarf angels, meaning that they will always be a bit of a questionable addition. Some will eat corals, some won't. Some will be bullies, some won't. If you want to roll the dice with one, nothing in your tank will be a problem. It's just down to chance whether you end up with a devil or an angel.

7) Mandarin
No real problems here, a 180g should give plenty of opportunities for forage assuming you have sufficient rockwork in your tank. Mandarins are either impossible or incredibly easy. If your tank produces enough pods to support them, they'll be the easiest "expert-only" fish ever. If it doesn't, then it's a tragedy waiting to happen, with very little middle ground. Might be some aggression directed their way from a hawkfish, but even then, probably fine.

On to your centerpiece fish:

Three pyramids should be fine in a 180. I'd personally pick them over a longnose. Better suited to a mixed reef tank, and they will usually eat aiptasia (mine does). There is concern with them deciding that puffy, meaty corals are snacks, but I have never seen one go after a soft coral.

Either a purple or a whitefin tang (or both) would be fine in your tank.

For the regal angel - Here I have no insight. I've never had a tank that was appropriate for full-size angels and I know their reputation for coral-eating, so I haven't looked into their requirements much.

 

[wunderlong88]

A 180g tank gives you a lot of options.

To address each of your wants:

1) 2 Ocelleris Clowns
This is fine, though I wouldn't pin my hopes on them hosting in a BTA (I believe the Black Widow is a BTA). My pink skunk clown immediately took to my BTA, but I've heard the Ocellaris are less enthusiastic about them.

2) Wrasses
I personally would shy away from the Melanarus and Rainbow wrasses. Halichoeres wrasses are not as off-limits as some of the "with caution" reef fish, but they will attack invertebrates that you might want. My Melanarus will attack and kill anything with legs (except for hermits), and some will kill snails. Overall, they just make things more difficult than they need to be. Beautiful fish with interesting personalities, that's for sure.

Be aware that, specifically with the solar fairy, some people have reported aggression from Melanarus wrasses. I haven't seen this myself... but when I picked up a solar fairy myself, it didn't even last a day. It had been surviving and eating just fine at the LFS for more than a week when I picked it up, and seemed happy and healthy while doing its initial exploration... but it was dead as a doornail in the morning after getting added. Coincidence? Possibly. I didn't see it get bullied and attacked, so I can't 100% say that's what happened.

Other than that, look up the wrasse compatibility chart to see which wrasses will be most compatible with what you already have.

3) Tailspot or Midas blenny
This is kind of iffy with a Starry already in the tank. You might have enough space for them to co-exist, but it's always a risk when mixing blennies. They can get angry at the presence of another and may squabble or even attack the other blenny.

4) Flame Hawkfish
Most people don't report issues with them, except that hawks in general will sometimes attack sand-dwelling fish. So your watchman gobies could be at risk. Doesn't seem to be as much of an issue when the hawk is well-fed, but it is a concern. I have had a different species of hawk rip another fish apart, which I didn't think would be possible with the size of its mouth... but it was very persistent and took it apart over the course of many hours. I don't think a flame would do the same thing, but it's something to be aware of.

5) Watchman gobies
No issues here, at least not coming from the gobies.

6) Flame/Flameback Angel
They're dwarf angels, meaning that they will always be a bit of a questionable addition. Some will eat corals, some won't. Some will be bullies, some won't. If you want to roll the dice with one, nothing in your tank will be a problem. It's just down to chance whether you end up with a devil or an angel.

7) Mandarin
No real problems here, a 180g should give plenty of opportunities for forage assuming you have sufficient rockwork in your tank. Mandarins are either impossible or incredibly easy. If your tank produces enough pods to support them, they'll be the easiest "expert-only" fish ever. If it doesn't, then it's a tragedy waiting to happen, with very little middle ground. Might be some aggression directed their way from a hawkfish, but even then, probably fine.

On to your centerpiece fish:

Three pyramids should be fine in a 180. I'd personally pick them over a longnose. Better suited to a mixed reef tank, and they will usually eat aiptasia (mine does). There is concern with them deciding that puffy, meaty corals are snacks, but I have never seen one go after a soft coral.

Either a purple or a whitefin tang (or both) would be fine in your tank.

For the regal angel - Here I have no insight. I've never had a tank that was appropriate for full-size angels and I know their reputation for coral-eating, so I haven't looked into their requirements much.

Ty so much. This was extremely helpful!

Decided to forgo any more angels of any size. Trading my bicolor foxface for the mostly yellow and skipping the Longnose since they look so much the same.

As for wrasses getting a blue star leopard and possibly melanurus... understand the invert risk.

Ordered a flame hawkfish and yellow Watchman goby and a pair of clowns. If they don't like the anemone I might get one later that they do.

Not sure about another blenny.

Not sure if I'll go with 3 pyramid butterflies or a purple tang. The butterflies are $ for 3. And I dont guess I can do a tang with a pyramid butterfly at all because if aggression? These centerpiece fish I can pin down better when the time comes.

And I definitely will order a mandarin down the road.

Ty again you were extremely helpful!

 

[i cant think]

I have 180 gal (240 system) mixed reef tank (soft corals only).

Current inhabitants:
Line Spot Flasher Wrasse
Maldivers McCoskers Flasher Wrasse
Dusky Wrasse
Diamond Watchman Goby
Starry Blenny
Purple Firefish
Coral Beauty Angel
Bicolored Foxface

Thinking about my next additions and the distant future. I don't want to add fish that prevent later additions that I really want!

Considering (* or ** really want!)
*2 Ocelleris Clowns (for my Black Widow Anemone, hopefully!)
*2-3 Wrasses - Melanurus Wrasse, Rainbow Wrasse, Naoko's Fairy Wrasse, Lineatus Wrasse, Solar Fairy, Blue Star Leopard or others!
Tailspot Blenny OR Midas Blenny
Flame Hawkfish
*Wheeler's Watchman Goby or Yellow Watchman Goby (for my lonely pistol shrimp)
*Flame Angel OR Flameback Angel
**Mandarin Goby (High on my list of wants, waiting for tank to be older (prob another 12 mos and trying to est. my white worm culture)


Centerpiece Fish - How many of these can I put together? LOL! I don't love my Foxface and might give him up at some point to be able to have more of these below.
*Longnose Butterfly (not sure if this is too hard) OR *Pyramid Butterfly (would love a group of 3 if that would work and I end having the room)
Purple Tang OR White Tail Kole Tang
Regal Angel

In a 6' tank will I have a problem adding both a Watchman Goby and eventually a Mandarin Dragonet with my current residents? What about one of the blennies (Tailspot or Midas)? I wasn't sure about the blenny/goby/dragonet/firefish compatibilities. I definitely want the dragonet someday and would add the Watchman if possible and then one of the Blennies also if that is still an option.

I want everything on my list, of course! Really loving wrasses, still hoping for some other smallish gobies and some centerpiece fish.

Thank you!

I’ll try and help a bit with some of these - obviously the above post by Biokabe covers it in a large depth so I’ll skip over the ones I agree with - but there’s a few I’d just cross off altogether through having several nasty experiences with them.

2x Ocellaris Clowns
Like above, these won’t necessarily 100% live in the Bubbletip Anemone - naturally this species will be hosted by the three main Carpets (Haddoni, Gigantea & Mertensi) and Heteractis magnifica.

2-3 Wrasses - Melanurus Wrasse, Rainbow Wrasse, Naoko's Fairy Wrasse, Lineatus Wrasse, Solar Fairy, Blue Star Leopard or others!
On the wrasse side, collate a list of 20-100+ wrasses. These can be purely insane & well out of the budget, or well into the budget. Only having a list of 8 wrasses (Rainbow Wrasse is a very vague common name with 3 species under it) and left open with “or others”. If you’d like, my example list that has some of the wrasses I have but also am trying to find, is at the very bottom of this post.

Flame Hawkfish
My recommendation… drop the idea of Hawkfish altogether. Wrasses and Hawks do not get along. I have had countless Hawkfish kill and stress out wrasses, butterflies, gobies, Blennies etc. My personal one was the Lyretail Hawkfish, and well it ended up killing several fish in a 4 foot 100G tank. That list included a 4 year old Copperband Butterfly, 5 year old Radiant Wrasse, it then went after my Diamond Tail Flasher. And I’ve had other species (longnose hawks, spotted hawks, flame hawks) kill other species of wrasses and gobies including Blue Star Leopards, Blue Cheek Gobies, Yellow Side Fairy Wrasse and others.


Wheeler's Watchman Goby or Yellow Watchman Goby
Either of these will work perfectly. Dont rely on them meeting the pistol within day 1 of entering the tank though. You may find that one will pair with the pistol on day 1, but I’ve found in larger systems it will take the goby a bit of exploring for it to find the pistol. Also, sometimes the shrimp won’t accept the goby.

Flame Angel OR Flameback Angel
I’ve got 4 angels in my 5 foot system - one of them is the FlameBack Angel (Centropyge acanthops). Aggression wise, he can be a terror, but will easily get distracted by the mirror. Unfortunately, I’ve found Flames don’t always get distracted by the mirror trick and can be more difficult to control with their aggression. Also coral munching? I honestly ignore it. What coral do you want? Trachys, Acanthos, Scolys? Then angels are a bad idea. But Hammers, Torches, Gonis, Acros, Leathers, Mushrooms, etc. My angels lead them alone. They’re just not enticing enough to eat.

Longnose Butterfly OR *Pyramid Butterfly
Either of these are a good choice, again, coral munching? It’s the same as angels. I’ve got a YLN in my 5 foot system, it doesn’t pose an issue at all. It may stress an Acro out a bit for it’s slime but other than that? 0 issues. I also have a Red Sea Pearlscale (Chaetodon paucifasciatus) in this tank with no issues.

Purple Tang OR White Tail Kole Tang
The purple I’d drop from the list. They’re nasty, and you may not even be finished stocking when you add a purple. These guys also get to the size of a dinner plate. I had one at my LFS and it was a monster in an 8 foot coral tray. I couldn’t add any other tangs or fish to that system as it would just go for the kill. It now resides in a 10 foot coral tray at the wholesaler, and even then it’s questionable if he needs a bigger tank.
The White Tail Kole is fine in that tank - just be careful with the dwarf angels. I had a Blue Eye Kole and it hated my flameback (they got along eventually but it was relentless when I first added the FBA).

Regal Angel
This was one of the several angels I had in a reef. No, they’re not that difficult. The difficulty comes with feeding (get them into an established reef ASAP and you’re already halfway there). Make sure the sponge supply is good - this goes for any angel. They love a sponge, it’s one of the reasons they go for fleshy coral is due to sponges growing similarly to them. Honestly, coral munching? Never had an issue.

I’ve had multiple angels in reefs at this point:
Regals (I’ve had 2)
Majestics (I have had a juvenile and my current adult)
Flame Back
Multicolour
Coral Beauties (these have been the most difficult angel for me, they just refuse to eat, get ulcers constantly and are always an issue).

Then the question is “How many of these can I put together?” And honestly, that’s up to you. If you go for 3 Pyramids, you will probably find you can’t have the tangs, but go for the one YLN and you can have tangs. I mean, this is my 5 foot tank’s stocking:

And how have I made the tank fit them? Through the manipulation of the coral & rockwork to ensure the hiding spots, and plenty of open swim room both away from the rock but also by using swimthroughs and archways.

And… here is my example of a wrasse list (scientifics is how I work which is why they aren’t the common names)…
Cirrhilabrus lubbocki
Cirrhilabrus flavidorsalis
Cirrhilabrus exquisitus
Cirrhilabrus isosceles
Cirrhilabrus nahackyi
Paracheilinus attenuatus
Paracheilinus mccoskeri
Paracheilinus flavianalis
Paracheilinus rubricaudalis
Halichoeres leucoxanthus
Halichoeres biocellatus
Halichoeres lapillus
Macropharyngodon meleagris
Macropharyngodon choati
Macropharyngodon viviennae
Macropharyngodon ornatus
Pseudocheilinops ataenia
Wetmorella albofasciata
Wetmorella tanakai
Wetmorella nigropinnata
Pseudojuloides kaleidos
Pseudojuloides severnsi
Pseudojuloides labrynthus
Pseudodax molaccanus
Labroides dimidiatus

 

[wunderlong88]

I’ll try and help a bit with some of these - obviously the above post by Biokabe covers it in a large depth so I’ll skip over the ones I agree with - but there’s a few I’d just cross off altogether through having several nasty experiences with them.

2x Ocellaris Clowns
Like above, these won’t necessarily 100% live in the Bubbletip Anemone - naturally this species will be hosted by the three main Carpets (Haddoni, Gigantea & Mertensi) and Heteractis magnifica.

2-3 Wrasses - Melanurus Wrasse, Rainbow Wrasse, Naoko's Fairy Wrasse, Lineatus Wrasse, Solar Fairy, Blue Star Leopard or others!
On the wrasse side, collate a list of 20-100+ wrasses. These can be purely insane & well out of the budget, or well into the budget. Only having a list of 8 wrasses (Rainbow Wrasse is a very vague common name with 3 species under it) and left open with “or others”. If you’d like, my example list that has some of the wrasses I have but also am trying to find, is at the very bottom of this post.

Flame Hawkfish
My recommendation… drop the idea of Hawkfish altogether. Wrasses and Hawks do not get along. I have had countless Hawkfish kill and stress out wrasses, butterflies, gobies, Blennies etc. My personal one was the Lyretail Hawkfish, and well it ended up killing several fish in a 4 foot 100G tank. That list included a 4 year old Copperband Butterfly, 5 year old Radiant Wrasse, it then went after my Diamond Tail Flasher. And I’ve had other species (longnose hawks, spotted hawks, flame hawks) kill other species of wrasses and gobies including Blue Star Leopards, Blue Cheek Gobies, Yellow Side Fairy Wrasse and others.


Wheeler's Watchman Goby or Yellow Watchman Goby
Either of these will work perfectly. Dont rely on them meeting the pistol within day 1 of entering the tank though. You may find that one will pair with the pistol on day 1, but I’ve found in larger systems it will take the goby a bit of exploring for it to find the pistol. Also, sometimes the shrimp won’t accept the goby.

Flame Angel OR Flameback Angel
I’ve got 4 angels in my 5 foot system - one of them is the FlameBack Angel (Centropyge acanthops). Aggression wise, he can be a terror, but will easily get distracted by the mirror. Unfortunately, I’ve found Flames don’t always get distracted by the mirror trick and can be more difficult to control with their aggression. Also coral munching? I honestly ignore it. What coral do you want? Trachys, Acanthos, Scolys? Then angels are a bad idea. But Hammers, Torches, Gonis, Acros, Leathers, Mushrooms, etc. My angels lead them alone. They’re just not enticing enough to eat.

Longnose Butterfly OR *Pyramid Butterfly
Either of these are a good choice, again, coral munching? It’s the same as angels. I’ve got a YLN in my 5 foot system, it doesn’t pose an issue at all. It may stress an Acro out a bit for it’s slime but other than that? 0 issues. I also have a Red Sea Pearlscale (Chaetodon paucifasciatus) in this tank with no issues.

Purple Tang OR White Tail Kole Tang
The purple I’d drop from the list. They’re nasty, and you may not even be finished stocking when you add a purple. These guys also get to the size of a dinner plate. I had one at my LFS and it was a monster in an 8 foot coral tray. I couldn’t add any other tangs or fish to that system as it would just go for the kill. It now resides in a 10 foot coral tray at the wholesaler, and even then it’s questionable if he needs a bigger tank.
The White Tail Kole is fine in that tank - just be careful with the dwarf angels. I had a Blue Eye Kole and it hated my flameback (they got along eventually but it was relentless when I first added the FBA).

Regal Angel
This was one of the several angels I had in a reef. No, they’re not that difficult. The difficulty comes with feeding (get them into an established reef ASAP and you’re already halfway there). Make sure the sponge supply is good - this goes for any angel. They love a sponge, it’s one of the reasons they go for fleshy coral is due to sponges growing similarly to them. Honestly, coral munching? Never had an issue.

I’ve had multiple angels in reefs at this point:
Regals (I’ve had 2)
Majestics (I have had a juvenile and my current adult)
Flame Back
Multicolour
Coral Beauties (these have been the most difficult angel for me, they just refuse to eat, get ulcers constantly and are always an issue).

Then the question is “How many of these can I put together?” And honestly, that’s up to you. If you go for 3 Pyramids, you will probably find you can’t have the tangs, but go for the one YLN and you can have tangs. I mean, this is my 5 foot tank’s stocking:

And how have I made the tank fit them? Through the manipulation of the coral & rockwork to ensure the hiding spots, and plenty of open swim room both away from the rock but also by using swimthroughs and archways.

And… here is my example of a wrasse list (scientifics is how I work which is why they aren’t the common names)…
Cirrhilabrus lubbocki
Cirrhilabrus flavidorsalis
Cirrhilabrus exquisitus
Cirrhilabrus isosceles
Cirrhilabrus nahackyi
Paracheilinus attenuatus
Paracheilinus mccoskeri
Paracheilinus flavianalis
Paracheilinus rubricaudalis
Halichoeres leucoxanthus
Halichoeres biocellatus
Halichoeres lapillus
Macropharyngodon meleagris
Macropharyngodon choati
Macropharyngodon viviennae
Macropharyngodon ornatus
Pseudocheilinops ataenia
Wetmorella albofasciata
Wetmorella tanakai
Wetmorella nigropinnata
Pseudojuloides kaleidos
Pseudojuloides severnsi
Pseudojuloides labrynthus
Pseudodax molaccanus
Labroides dimidiatus

Thank you for your most informative reply. I am researching still but think I have a better grasp of what I want!

 

[code4]

If you decide on a regal angel get a 2-3 inch one. They will accept frozen food much easier than the larger ones. Had 2 for 7 years. They are slow growers and fun to watch.

Shelley