wowkingjames
Well-Known Member
Very informative, thanks!
Algae Scrubber Basics
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SantaMonica
Valuable Member
Either one should be much easier to DIY now, with an underwater refugium light:
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OP
OP
That's not true actually, at least not from what I've heard others report.
The mechanism that creates the full siphon action in a Herbie or BA is the elimination of air from the drain line. This generally means a tuned drain line (valve in line) and the bottom of the pipe being submerged so that the water can't "fall out" and allow air to intrude into the drain line, thus breaking the siphon from the bottom.
The flow is then (partially) defined by the column of water which has no air component and it's gravity-driven "suction" effect on the water in the pipe above it.
The Slot Pipe works in a very similar manner when it comes to the gravity-driven suction part: water that is present in the drain, with no air intruding, will indeed provide this.
With respect to the air intrusion part, when there is a tuned flow, the water above the tuning valve "pushes" on the valve and this is what forces the air out from above. The water below "pulls" from that same point and turbulence removes the rest of the air. The Slot Pipe essentially acts as a second "push" point, and the air is eventually if not totally driven out of the system, the result being a sealed drain from top (overflow) to bottom (slot pipe)
Air does not easily intrude into the slot pipe and break the siphon by allowing water to "purge" out from the drain pipe between the slot and the drain valve, if properly designed. Many have reported that running a slot pipe on a siphon line works very well.
SantaMonica
Valuable Member
Some of the new waterfall designs that I'll be posting eliminate the need to deal with overflows like this. Some don't however, and still need a herbie etc.
OP
OP
Mortar Screen tutorial
OP
OP
Hehe...I'm getting stalked...my push alerts were going bonkers
I thought it was a sticky! Oh well. @revhtree can you make it happen?
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Hehe...I'm getting stalked...my push alerts were going bonkers
I thought it was a sticky! Oh well. @revhtree can you make it happen?
Glad this thread is over here too. Didn't know it was. Great resource for those wanting to build their own ATS or get help in running one.
Yes please @revhtree sticky please.
blacktippr
Active Member
This is 2 weeks growth using 24 hour schedule , Lots of brown and red and some green on sides of the screen.
Water parameters as of yesterday .
12 ppm of nitrates.
0.19 phosphates Hanna .
Any suggestions.
OP
OP
As long as you have a base of green underneath, the dark slime growing on top is typically a phase that should pass over time. Until that passes, I would try to keep that at bay by taking the screen out and just swiping your hand across the screen then rinsing to get rid of any loose growth.
You want to prevent any GHA from detaching due to shading while your getting that slime growth.
One of my initial conclusions on the slime growth was "too much light" but now I feel that it is dependent on the situation. All slime and no GHA is likely too much light (too intense) but slime over GHA is different. This leads me to feel that slime is more of a phase than a major issue, it just presents itself at I opportune times at startup.
You want to prevent any GHA from detaching due to shading while your getting that slime growth.
One of my initial conclusions on the slime growth was "too much light" but now I feel that it is dependent on the situation. All slime and no GHA is likely too much light (too intense) but slime over GHA is different. This leads me to feel that slime is more of a phase than a major issue, it just presents itself at I opportune times at startup.
blacktippr
Active Member
It's been running a month and 1/2, do you suggest doing 9 hour schedule as proposed somewhere here or 18 hours schedule?
blacktippr
Active Member
Last picture is after cleaning with the palm of the hand and gently washing it with tap water.
There is no algae attaching where the light hits harder.
Get down the photo period to 18 hours or 9?
Can I use some sort of filter for the lights so it does not hit as hard in the middle?
OP
OP
That's likely a result of the multichip hotspot. If you want, you can take a small piece of diffuser, about 2" square, and use clear Scotch tape (double stick if you have it) to stick it to the acrylic on the scrubber (not the light, too hot there) right in front of the multichip to diffuse it a bit. The diffuser I am referring to is the kind that you put in a light fixture mounted in a grid ceiling
http://www.lowes.com/pd/PLASKOLITE-...in-x-48-in-Actual-47-75-in-x-23-75-in/3307632
Hard to see in the pic but it's the kind with little "bumps" on one side (a bit like pointed pyramids, but more "sculpted") and smooth on the other side. Tape with the pointy side facing the lights (there really is no other way to double-stick tape it to the acrylic, you'll see what I mean)
you can knock the lights back to 18 hours but you are getting decent growth outside of that center spot, so I would say you're fine leaving it 24/7 if you want. You lose a lot of intensity outside of that spot directly in front of the multichip, so the area where you are getting good growth is where the light level is better, so you get good growth there. Once the center fills in, you can probably take the diffuser off and it will stay filled in, it's just to intense to start filling in quickly. Honestly if you left it alone it will likely fill in, even if it takes 6 months. One scrubber I ran with blue LEDs directly across from one another in the center did exactly that after 6-9 months of a center bare spot.
The other thing is that your screen is huge. Do you feed 15-20 cubes/day? Is this on a very large tank?
And the golden question, which trumps all worry about how the screen is growing is how does your tank look?
http://www.lowes.com/pd/PLASKOLITE-...in-x-48-in-Actual-47-75-in-x-23-75-in/3307632
Hard to see in the pic but it's the kind with little "bumps" on one side (a bit like pointed pyramids, but more "sculpted") and smooth on the other side. Tape with the pointy side facing the lights (there really is no other way to double-stick tape it to the acrylic, you'll see what I mean)
you can knock the lights back to 18 hours but you are getting decent growth outside of that center spot, so I would say you're fine leaving it 24/7 if you want. You lose a lot of intensity outside of that spot directly in front of the multichip, so the area where you are getting good growth is where the light level is better, so you get good growth there. Once the center fills in, you can probably take the diffuser off and it will stay filled in, it's just to intense to start filling in quickly. Honestly if you left it alone it will likely fill in, even if it takes 6 months. One scrubber I ran with blue LEDs directly across from one another in the center did exactly that after 6-9 months of a center bare spot.
The other thing is that your screen is huge. Do you feed 15-20 cubes/day? Is this on a very large tank?
And the golden question, which trumps all worry about how the screen is growing is how does your tank look?
This is not horrible...
2 weeks of growth since last cleaning? 2 weeks of growth since installation?
MaccaPopEye
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@Floyd R Turbo for my last cleaning I decided to leave my scrubber and see how long it would take for the emergency overflow to kick in (4 weeks). The growth was still in line with just cleaning it at 2 weeks (I got just over 100g of algae and at 2 weeks I get around 50g of algae) But when I pulled the screen out I noticed almost the entire right hand side of the screen had the algae fall off in more or less a whole sheet. I have noticed that this side consistently has a section that either just doesn't grow well or has the algae grow and then fall off. This time the left hand side also had a little bit where it looked like the algae had fallen away but not as much as on the right hand side - although still a bit concerning.
Is this an issue with the lights not "punching" through to the base of the algae (not sure as lights on both sides are the same and same distance away from the screen - but I can move them closer) or is the screen maybe not roughed up enough? I roughed up both sides of the screen (I thought) well with a saw blade until it was very prickly. Is there a way to re-rough up the screen without going back to square 1 growth wise? Or could the flow be a bit too strong? I aim for 35gph per inch of screen width but it's just a guess.
Just to recap my scrubber is a 2 cube per day screen, I feed between 1-2 cubes per day. And lights are 20W led multichip grow flood lights from ebay.
I will post pics in a few minutes.
Cheers,
Macca
Is this an issue with the lights not "punching" through to the base of the algae (not sure as lights on both sides are the same and same distance away from the screen - but I can move them closer) or is the screen maybe not roughed up enough? I roughed up both sides of the screen (I thought) well with a saw blade until it was very prickly. Is there a way to re-rough up the screen without going back to square 1 growth wise? Or could the flow be a bit too strong? I aim for 35gph per inch of screen width but it's just a guess.
Just to recap my scrubber is a 2 cube per day screen, I feed between 1-2 cubes per day. And lights are 20W led multichip grow flood lights from ebay.
I will post pics in a few minutes.
Cheers,
Macca
MaccaPopEye
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Here is the most recent cleaning with the areas of concern circled. Large area where the algae fell away is the right hand side of the screen and the two smaller areas of concern are the left hand side of the screen.
http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/MaccaPopEye/media/Aquarium/Algae%20Turf%20Scrubber/20160816_225320_zpsfkwuclng.jpg.html]
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And here is some random past cleanings in no particular order where the algae fell away or didn't grow properly (not all as some were not obvious enough to show up in the pics although there is noticeably always less growth or a section of algae missing on the right hand side of the screen). Sometimes the right hand side of the pic is on the left of the photo and sometimes it is on the right, but the sides I have circled are always the same side out of the algae scrubber.
http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/MaccaPopEye/media/Aquarium/Algae%20Turf%20Scrubber/20160816_225754_zpsbi63uiug.jpg.html]
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http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/MaccaPopEye/media/Aquarium/Algae%20Turf%20Scrubber/20160816_225320_zpsfkwuclng.jpg.html]
[/URL]And here is some random past cleanings in no particular order where the algae fell away or didn't grow properly (not all as some were not obvious enough to show up in the pics although there is noticeably always less growth or a section of algae missing on the right hand side of the screen). Sometimes the right hand side of the pic is on the left of the photo and sometimes it is on the right, but the sides I have circled are always the same side out of the algae scrubber.
http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/MaccaPopEye/media/Aquarium/Algae%20Turf%20Scrubber/20160816_225754_zpsbi63uiug.jpg.html]
[/URL]Old
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blacktippr
Active Member
Been running a month 1/2 on the scrubber.
My fish are huge tangs like over 12" most of them.
Tank is 500 gallons with total volume of 700 gallons.
Feed 4 sheets of nori. A bit of pellets here and there and LRS once or twice a week.
OP
OP
I take it that this is a open-air scrubber, meaning there is not an enclosure that would foster "3D growth"? If you don't have that, then the algae will get thick enough to shade the base and it will die off and detach - this is what you are seeing when you get to 4 weeks and go to clean and the algae almost slides off with little to no effort. I start to get this on my old scrubbers (which have a slightly wider growth chamber) by about day 16 on the growth cycle - much past that, and it all comes off with a hand swipe leaving little behind. I've never gone longer than 20 days!
Regarding the areas of poor or inconsistent growth, that could be flow related and it could be a combination of flow and light and photoperiod. But your base looks good. @blacktippr take a look at some of his pics, you can see in the older pics where he has the dark slime over the top of the GHA base - that's what I was referring to...
@MaccaPopEye it's hard to say if the issue is the roughness of the screen, but the 4 weeks growth period that resulted in detachment is not indicative of that. The other 2 week growth periods could be, but my first suspicion is a flow pattern because if you look as your pics, the area with weak growth looks like it's just "downstream" from your rings - they might be diverting flow slighty, causing an arc effect where you get 2x the flow in one spot and none in another. Take the rings off and round them with sandpaper so that the water wraps around them a bit better, and after that, reduce your flow so that you still get good coverage but without any significant arcing. I would not think arcing would be so much of an issue at this point in your screen maturity but it might help to fill in those last couple areas.
I don't think your lights are the problem - you don't have a hot spot. Looks good from that perspective.
Big tank! Scrubber is probably a good size then. For 1.5 months and the way that scrubber is constructed, I would say you are on track. Don't over-clean, that's the #1 mistake. I started using the term "harvest" instead of "cleaning" because you never really want to truly "clean" the screen. Just remove any algae that easily detaches. I usually don't even "scrape" with a scraper anymore, I tend to "drag" the scraper across the algae mat until I can get the most harvest I can, then only "scrape" when I have tough areas that I need to thin out
HTH
Bud
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