Am I crazy for wanting a hydros when I have an apex?

[n2585722]

I want to make sure I understand completely, so sorry if I sound a little 'dumb' here but I'm new to this. So a Hydro basically is the same thing as an Apex? Can the hydro be set up to also monitor say like ALK/MAG, etc? Can you also add a doser to it? Or is the Hydro just for basic monitoring and plug control?

The Hydros can control dosing pumps. In fact Hydros has a dosing pump you can connect to one of the drive ports on the Hydros. The Hydros and the Apex are both controllers. It is the way they to about it that makes them different. The Apex has a central brain you add modules to to control and monitor different things. The Hydros every module is a controller in itself with the exception of the wifi strips and wifi plug. So each module can be a individual controller on its own or in a collective they act together like one larger controller. On the Apex if you loose the brain you are out of action until you get it repaired or replaced. With the Hydros if you loose a controller you only loose the inputs and outputs from that controller but the collective won't happy and you will get a lot of alerts because of it. All other functions that don't need the inputs or output on the lost controller will continue to function as they did. You can also set the output on controller to either remain on or turn off if a input that is needed is unavailable. If you want you can just use it for monitoring things and sending alerts if things get out of the range you setup. They sell a monitor only version of the X3. It is the same X3 it just does not come with any outputs but you can get either a wifi strip or a XP8 to add them when you are ready to start controlling things with it.

 

[n2585722]

If you are wanting more information on the Hydros I have the Hydros system and go over converting to it from the Archon I was using in my build thread on R2R. The hydros stuff starts on page 7 of that thread. Just click on my build thread contributor's badge in one of my post to get to it.

As far as monitoring test the Hydros will interface with the Alkatronic or Kamoer KH Carer for alkalinity. I have the Kamoer and really like it. As far as other things like Magnesium There is the Mastertronic it wi interface with. Below the first screenshot is my inputs for my hex tank. In the first row the third and forth tile are readings from my Kamoer KH Carer. The second screenshot is 4 graphs in the 10 day setting.

 

[Kathy Floyd]

The Hydros can control dosing pumps. In fact Hydros has a dosing pump you can connect to one of the drive ports on the Hydros. The Hydros and the Apex are both controllers. It is the way they to about it that makes them different. The Apex has a central brain you add modules to to control and monitor different things. The Hydros every module is a controller in itself with the exception of the wifi strips and wifi plug. So each module can be a individual controller on its own or in a collective they act together like one larger controller. On the Apex if you loose the brain you are out of action until you get it repaired or replaced. With the Hydros if you loose a controller you only loose the inputs and outputs from that controller but the collective won't happy and you will get a lot of alerts because of it. All other functions that don't need the inputs or output on the lost controller will continue to function as they did. You can also set the output on controller to either remain on or turn off if a input that is needed is unavailable. If you want you can just use it for monitoring things and sending alerts if things get out of the range you setup. They sell a monitor only version of the X3. It is the same X3 it just does not come with any outputs but you can get either a wifi strip or a XP8 to add them when you are ready to start controlling things with it.

Thank you so much!!! I think I am going to get the Hydro. I know I will also want it to monitor ALK, CALC. Can you advise what I would also need to get for it to do that?

 

[n2585722]

Thank you so much!!! I think I am going to get the Hydro. I know I will also want it to monitor ALK, CALC. Can you advise what I would also need to get for it to do that?

For alkalinity at this moment it would be either Alkatronic or the Kamoer KH Carer. CoralVue has announced a way of testing directly with the Hydros for alkalinity sometime next year. They are coming out with a vessel for doing this called the IV. It will hold the pH probe for doing pH and alkalinity and hold a salinity probe for testing salinity. So these three can be measure on a schedule You will need a couple of precision dosing pumps and a third which can be the Hydros that has already been released. They have also announced the X10 which has 4 precision dosing pumps and a pH probe port and a salinity probe port. It also has 4 sense ports and 2 drive ports. It is the only controller to date that has the salinity port. I use the Kamoer KH Carer for my alkalinity testing and dosing of KH buffer. I have it testing 3 times a day at this time. I have had it about a month now. I do get the readings on my Hydros and coulduse them for controlling some thing but since I dose All For Reef alkalinity would not be a good choice since it takes a week or more for that to change using All For Reef.

A far as calcium the only thing at this time is the Mastertroinc. I use a Hanna tester dor calcium myself and check it once a week. I currently dose All For Reef which is controller by my Hydros using a Intllab dosing pump set to 12ml a minute flow. I still mix it at half strength to make the dosing time longer. I use the calcium readings to adjust the dosage if needed. The mastertronic can test for several things but it is expensive and requires some maintenance since it is basically a automation of test that are normally done by the user. I do not have the Mastertronic myself since I use Hanna testers form most of the other test other than alkalinity and I do them once a week.

 

[David29price]

So I’m going to dive into the controller arena soon. I have a 400 gallon system. Sump and all filtration is 70 feet away and on another floor separate from the display tank.

I’ve been wanting an apex with all the programming capabilities but I hear nothing but problems over the last several years with parts going bad and people losing their whole tanks due to random things like a doser that won’t shut off, a heater that won’t stop, ATO that either didn’t come on or wouldn’t stop, etc….

Believe it or not I’m automating a lot of things through Alexa and smart plugs. Where I’m struggling is for example, my protein skimmer goes nuts and drains my sump leading to nearly burning up my pump and 20 gallons of water all over the floor. I drain my skimmer into a 5 gallon bucket. I’d like to put a water level sensor in it and when the sensor trips, shut off the pump to the skimmer and send me a notification. I know with Apex this is easy to do. Can you do this with Hydros?

Also I see this needs internet connectivity to configure the system. If the internet is down will the system continue to function on its own and the only thing that wouldn’t work would be notifications and the ability to monitor/configure it?

 

[n2585722]

So I’m going to dive into the controller arena soon. I have a 400 gallon system. Sump and all filtration is 70 feet away and on another floor separate from the display tank.

I’ve been wanting an apex with all the programming capabilities but I hear nothing but problems over the last several years with parts going bad and people losing their whole tanks due to random things like a doser that won’t shut off, a heater that won’t stop, ATO that either didn’t come on or wouldn’t stop, etc….

Believe it or not I’m automating a lot of things through Alexa and smart plugs. Where I’m struggling is for example, my protein skimmer goes nuts and drains my sump leading to nearly burning up my pump and 20 gallons of water all over the floor. I drain my skimmer into a 5 gallon bucket. I’d like to put a water level sensor in it and when the sensor trips, shut off the pump to the skimmer and send me a notification. I know with Apex this is easy to do. Can you do this with Hydros?

Also I see this needs internet connectivity to configure the system. If the internet is down will the system continue to function on its own and the only thing that wouldn’t work would be notifications and the ability to monitor/configure it?

I have my skimmer draining into a container and have a full level sensor in the container that shuts off the skimmer. I also have other things setup to shutoff the skimmer using the generic output type, The Skimmer output type has an input for a skimmer full sensor also. Below are my settings for my skimmer, It uses the generic output type and is set for three inputs for control. Input 1 is the sump high sensor. I have a high level sensor in the sump if this sensor is wet I do not want the skimmer to run, so I set it to active if dry. The second sensor is a leak detector. If this sensor is wet I don't want the skimmer to run. The third sensor is the skimmer full sensor if this sensor is wet the container is full and I don't won't the skimmer running. So it is also set to active when dry. The input combiner mode is set to AND since I want all inputs in active mode before the skimmer will run. The output device is the output port where the skimmer is connected. If you decide to move it this would be the only setting you would need to change. In this case it is on my XP8 AC outlet 2. The XP8 has power monitoring so that is setup on this output for 40-60 watts. If the output is on and the wattage usage goes out of that range I will get an alert sent by the means setup for a yellow alert. I also have it setup if any of the three inputs were to become unavailable the output would default to off. The depends on setting is setup to the return pump and the dependency mode is set to off if off. So if the return pump is turned off the skimmer will also go off. In the advanced settings I have the minimum off time set to 10 minutes. So if the skimmer turns off it will not be able to turn back on for at least 10 minutes. The only exception is depends on. The 10 minute time count will not start until the depends on clears and then the 10 minutes starts. So if my return is turned off the skimmer will wait for ten minutes after it is turned back on before it will turn on as long as all the inputs are all active. I hope this helps in explaining setting up a skimmer with the Hydros. The Hydros will continue to work without internet once it has been setup as long as wifi is still up and running it will continue to control wifi devices that are paired with it. I was without internet for 5 days straight. I could still access my Hydros with my phone as long as I had wifi turned off on the phone so the App would have internet connection. I would then select bluetooth mode in the app to connect to the controllers. I could still override outputs to either off, auto or on if I wanted. I could also see input readings in that mode.

 

[David29price]

I have my skimmer draining into a container and have a full level sensor in the container that shuts off the skimmer. I also have other things setup to shutoff the skimmer using the generic output type, The Skimmer output type has an input for a skimmer full sensor also. Below are my settings for my skimmer, It uses the generic output type and is set for three inputs for control. Input 1 is the sump high sensor. I have a high level sensor in the sump if this sensor is wet I do not want the skimmer to run, so I set it to active if dry. The second sensor is a leak detector. If this sensor is wet I don't want the skimmer to run. The third sensor is the skimmer full sensor if this sensor is wet the container is full and I don't won't the skimmer running. So it is also set to active when dry. The input combiner mode is set to AND since I want all inputs in active mode before the skimmer will run. The output device is the output port where the skimmer is connected. If you decide to move it this would be the only setting you would need to change. In this case it is on my XP8 AC outlet 2. The XP8 has power monitoring so that is setup on this output for 40-60 watts. If the output is on and the wattage usage goes out of that range I will get an alert sent by the means setup for a yellow alert. I also have it setup if any of the three inputs were to become unavailable the output would default to off. The depends on setting is setup to the return pump and the dependency mode is set to off if off. So if the return pump is turned off the skimmer will also go off. In the advanced settings I have the minimum off time set to 10 minutes. So if the skimmer turns off it will not be able to turn back on for at least 10 minutes. The only exception is depends on. The 10 minute time count will not start until the depends on clears and then the 10 minutes starts. So if my return is turned off the skimmer will wait for ten minutes after it is turned back on before it will turn on as long as all the inputs are all active. I hope this helps in explaining setting up a skimmer with the Hydros. The Hydros will continue to work without internet once it has been setup as long as wifi is still up and running it will continue to control wifi devices that are paired with it. I was without internet for 5 days straight. I could still access my Hydros with my phone as long as I had wifi turned off on the phone so the App would have internet connection. I would then select bluetooth mode in the app to connect to the controllers. I could still override outputs to either off, auto or on if I wanted. I could also see input readings in that mode.

Ok thank you for the feedback! So in order to get started and do a configuration similar to yours, which components would I need to do this basic setup? I need to shut off the skimmer pump if I detect water on the floor and/or if the sensor in the 5 gallon bucket detects that it’s full. Thanks Much, -David

 

[zoomonster]

I thought about Hydro's and then moved on. As much as I have come to not like Neptune and the problematic hardware there are too many holes in Hydros. It may eventually come of age but there's one glaring issue I see. Ecotech... proprietary protocol no one is going to get access to. We may finally get rid of Mobius but only because Ecotech and Neptune are now in business together and Neptune will probably have the only module to support Ecotech lights, MP's and pumps etc. If they ever release it that is. Sure, there are other options but me personally I'm sticking with my Radion G5's, MP40's and Vectra return pump.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

I have an Apex at home and have had one for at least 10 years. I have 2 Hydros controllers at the office and am seriously considering switching to Hydros at home too. There is no controller on my 75 gallon softie tank so I would move the Apex there and then add the Hydros to my main 200 gallon system. I need to be familiar with both systems as I sell these things.

There are advantages and disadvantages of both but I would really like the wireless communication between modules and I also like the more approachable entry point. I couldn't justify adding an Apex to my 12 gallon desk tank but for $200 I just might add a control XS starter pack.

 

[n2585722]

Ok thank you for the feedback! So in order to get started and do a configuration similar to yours, which components would I need to do this basic setup? I need to shut off the skimmer pump if I detect water on the floor and/or if the sensor in the 5 gallon bucket detects that it’s full. Thanks Much, -David

The water level sensors and leak detectors use the sense ports. As far as AC control there is the XP8 which is a controller but has the 8 AC outlets. There is the wifi power strips with 4 AC outlets and 4 USB power ports. The USB power ports are switched on and off together. There is also a wifi power plug. There can be up to 8 wifi devices to a controller or collective. When you connect 2 controllers together using a command buss cable and terminator you can create a collective. A collective acts like one large controller with the sum of all inputs and outputs of it's member controller. I like the X4 pro pack for starters since it has a X4 and XP8 controller with a command buss cable and two terminators. It also has a pH probe and a temp sensor. So you would have 8 AC outputs, 2 drive port outputs, 4 0-10v outputs. The drive port outputs are 12v outputs and can power small 12v pumps and solenoids. I use them to power my ATO, AWC and dosing pumps but I have several controllers with those ports on them. If you want to control AWC, ATO or dosing pumps with the Hydros I would either use drive ports or XP8 outlets instead of wifi. The reason is if wifi communication is lost between the wifi strips or plugs and the controller they will remain in what ever state they are in. I have used them before for heaters, skimmer and return. The heaters had a backup with their own thermostat though. Those are now on XP8 outlets now that the XP8 is out. They have point and the rope type leak detectors. Now the X4 also has 2 probe ports for either pH or ORP and can be mixed if you want. It also has 4 sense ports which one is used by the temp sensor. Leak detectors and water level sensors also use these. There is also 4 0-10v inputs. There are 3rd party breakout boxes you can get to use these for switch inputs and other devices. There is a good DIY section on the Hydros forums with different things people have used these for. If you get to the point you need more ports just pick out the controller that has those ports and get it and a command buss cable and it can be added to the X4 XP8 collective. I currently have 10 controllers in my collective. I have the inputs and outputs spread out on several pages but I do have one page called all that shows everything in the collective. It took 4 screenshots to get the whole page. There are 37 inputs and 99 outputs setup in the collective. I think I counted them right. Not all outputs actually drive a port. Some are used for logic only to use as an input on another outputs. The collective controls my tank, RODI. It also controls my DI reservoir, Fresh saltwater reservoir and mix tank. It also does ATO, AWC and dosing so it does quite a bit. Of coarse I didn't get to this point overnight either. It took some time.Mainly it has to dit into the pocketbook before I could add more to it. Most of the controller have their type in their names in the collective. There are 5 controllers at the tank and 5 in the garage with the reservoirs, RODI, ATO pump and AWC pumps. On this page the inputs and output are not in any particular order. You can change the order and which ones are visible on each page. I have 7 pages setup in this collective. If you have any particular questions let me know. Also this is dark mode in the app which I prefer. The blue outline around the inputs just indicate everything is ok. The blue outline around the outputs means they are on gray outline is off. If there was an issue the icon would be red. The purple, orange and green outlines are my MP10's which are controlled by the wave engine.

 

[n2585722]

I thought about Hydro's and then moved on. As much as I have come to not like Neptune and the problematic hardware there are too many holes in Hydros. It may eventually come of age but there's one glaring issue I see. Ecotech... proprietary protocol no one is going to get access to. We may finally get rid of Mobius but only because Ecotech and Neptune are now in business together and Neptune will probably have the only module to support Ecotech lights, MP's and pumps etc. If they ever release it that is. Sure, there are other options but me personally I'm sticking with my Radion G5's, MP40's and Vectra return pump.

I control my MP10's with my Wave Engine. They are pre Mobius versions and I used the RF module out of my ReefLink and installed it in my Wave Engine. I don't think the new MP type pump will downgrade to pre Mobius firmware so they cannot be used. I will not replace them with newer versions of the pump. If I have to get another pump I will get one that is compatible with the Wave Engine.

 

[zoomonster]

I control my MP10's with my Wave Engine. They are pre Mobius versions and I used the RF module out of my ReefLink and installed it in my Wave Engine. I don't think the new MP type pump will downgrade to pre Mobius firmware so they cannot be used. I will not replace them with newer versions of the pump. If I have to get another pump I will get one that is compatible with the Wave Engine.

My MP40's are pre mobius too and they are controlled by Apex WXM module very nicely with access to all modes and schedule. Just noticed the other day that the WXM has been discontinued. My pump I may have to add a chip to although on/off is all that's required. The rest is fluff. If I want to adjust speed, there's always the pump controller dial.

 

[n2585722]

Ok thank you for the feedback! So in order to get started and do a configuration similar to yours, which components would I need to do this basic setup? I need to shut off the skimmer pump if I detect water on the floor and/or if the sensor in the 5 gallon bucket detects that it’s full. Thanks Much, -David

I might have got a little to in depth on my other post but at a bare minimum for skimmer only control you would need a controller with two free sense ports and a wifi power strip. I would suggest a XS starter kit since it has 4 sense ports and 4 AC outlets. It comes with the controller, wifi power strip and a temp sensor. So you would have a spare sense port with using three with the temp sensor, water level sensor for the skimmer cutoff and one leak detector either the point type or the rope type. You would have to get those two separate from the starter kit. You can always add another controller later to add to the system. Here is a link https://www.coralvue.com/hydros-control-xs-starter-kit . This would get you started.

 

[MichaelReefer]

Everyone is hopping on the Hydros train but doesnt the unit not test anything but PH and temp? So you end up having to buy another system to test anyways?

 

[n2585722]

Everyone is hopping on the Hydros train but doesnt the unit not test anything but PH and temp? So you end up having to buy another system to test anyways?

You would have to buy the test device for the other controllers. It may be considered a module for the other controller companies. The Hydros can get info from the Alkatronic, Mastertronic and the KH Carer. So you can choose which one or ones you want to add. They also have the X10 and iV coming out this year that will test alkalinity, pH and salinity. The iV is just a holding vessel that has a stirrer built into it and holders for the pH probe and the salinity probe. That way both are isolated from the tank. The X10 also has 4 precision dosing pump built into it. So there is more coming. I currently have the KH Carer that my Hydros uses to dynamically dose KH buffer using the readings from the KH Carer. I test other things using Hanna testers once a week. Here is a graph on the two values from my KH Carer. The pH is only calibrated for 4 to 7 range but it is still a good way to make sure there is not an issue with the other once you get a history of the difference between the one connected to the Hydros and the one in the KH Carer. To begin with i had these imported into a lone controller an XD which only has three drive ports and no inputs but with the inputs setup to receive the KH Carer data I was using it for dynamic dosing. I used the drive ports to power the dosing pumps I used. I have since added the XD to my collective but it still does dynamic dosing using the data from the Carer.