Hey all…I’m currently battling these guys myself. I didn’t read the entire thread so forgive me if this has been asked…what about removing all the infected sand and running bare bottom for some time? Could this deny them a place to settle?
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
GAC yes. I wonder if the filter socks might remove a large portion of the phyto that you would be adding.
Hi All,
Hoping you may be able to assist with an ID.
Finally got myself a microscope after battling this for a while I'm tired of guessing/assuming and wanting to get real answers so I can fight it properly.
Is there a thread with pictures for this (i've done a couple of searches but don't think I'm putting in the right words/phrase to find).
Not sure why it's not letting me embed - note, everything was moving initially but as time went by the larger oval and smaller cells stopped moving and just that worm thing was there lol.
what algae / bacteria is this?
youtube.com
good questions and sound logic.I run a roller filter. Should we be removing these filtrations (socks and rollers) when fighting dinos/dosing phyto and copepods etc?
What would get rid of the gunk that is the dinos if not for those? Just the skimmer?
When I'm blowing off the rocks etc a bunch of it gets lifted into the water column and out via the roller so just wanting to confirm as I want to increase my chances of success here.
Was just something that was suggested to me in my ID thread. I'm not 100% sure of the reasoning behind it unfortunately, but hey... if there's something else that'll potentially help I'm all for it, but if I'm wasting my time with it (as you had no success) then perhaps I skip that one and stick to the pods.I'm not 100% sure what it is that phyto is expected to do (phyto I grew didn't help in my system). If it's meant to compete for nutrients, it might need to remain in the water for some time. If it's meant to feed pods, then just turning off the filtration for an hour or so might let enough settle to support pod growth.
I have a 400 gallon system and my SI was at .056. I was dosing 20 drops a day based on brightwell instructions over the last week. I was reading another person was dosing 22 drops in a 70 gallon tank. Seems like I need to increase the drops. How many would drops of SI would you do and how fast would you increase them? My nitrate is around 15.A comment on hanna Silica tester hi705, Brightwell SpongExcel Silica, and measurements & targets
We want to compare the amount of Silica to the amount of Nitrogen and get something approaching 1:1 ratio of Si to N, to follow example of the paper.
N we measure as NO3 so multiply NO3 by 0.226 to get Nitrogen.
I'm going to target 5ppm NO3 = 1.13ppm N, and an equal amount ~ 1.2ppm Si
SpongExcel gives its concentration in terms of Si - great: 1 drop = 0.20ppm Si per gallon (1ml = 4ppm Si per gal)
so target concentration * gallons / 0.20 = # of drops ... (target conc * gallons/4 = # of mL)
1.2 ppm Si * 70 gal / 4mL = 21 mL (420 drops)
This is just to see the total scale of the Si addition - not that you'd add it all at once. I've been dosing a couple of weeks up to now adding 20+ drops a day and increasing 10% a day.
The hanna silica meter measures SiO2 so multiply the reading by 0.467 to get Silicon for direct comparison.
My tank tested at 0.34 SiO2 = 0.159ppm Si
After addition of 22 drops *0.20 / 70 gal = +0.063ppm Si the new level should = 0.222ppm Si
2 hours later the tester gave 0.52 SiO2 = 0.243ppm Si. Considering the uncertainties in measuring drops, my volume, and the meter - this is a pretty confidence-building result.
Overall takeaways:
Si meter and source are reliable.
Even at my very small doses, I'm accumulating some measurable Si.
My tank is consuming Si, but slower than would be expected.
Tank is growing diatoms, and seems to be growing more diversity of them.
It's not really possible to say if the increasing diversity of observed diatoms is due to increasing concentration of Si or simply length of time with available Si.
The "explosion" of diatom growth was very short lived (like 1-2 days) they are now very stable or gradually increasing.
Other things besides Si, P, and N are likely limiting diatom growth to some extent. This maybe should be expected in stable older tanks - tanks don't undergo exponential phase growth of anything for very long before a plateau.
My inverts seem to be fine with new diatoms on the diet. They seem to graze the areas with most diatom growth.
Copepod population on the glass may have increased slightly.
I'll continue slowly ramping up to 1.2 ppm Si to match 1 to 1 the Si to N at 5 ppm No3, and see how the system behaves.
Edit: I don't have a dinos so my observations will be about generally how a system behaves at sustained ~1ppm Si balanced with N.
I should clarify. I had no success with live phyto with toxic dinos. It grew a bunch of pods, that later died in the toxic dino mucus, and the dinos grew a bunch more after.Was just something that was suggested to me in my ID thread. I'm not 100% sure of the reasoning behind it unfortunately, but hey... if there's something else that'll potentially help I'm all for it, but if I'm wasting my time with it (as you had no success) then perhaps I skip that one and stick to the pods.
I'd no longer think of Si as something to dose to the level of NO3-N. Just get Si present and constantly available at a level that diatoms can use. For me, if my SiO2 was above 0.1-0.2ppm then diatoms had enough to grow. When I raised it higher ~1ppm SiO2, they didn't grow faster.I have a 400 gallon system and my SI was at .056. I was dosing 20 drops a day based on brightwell instructions over the last week. I was reading another person was dosing 22 drops in a 70 gallon tank. Seems like I need to increase the drops. How many would drops of SI would you do and how fast would you increase them? My nitrate is around 15.
Thanks for the clarity, perhaps I'll add it back onto the list. Hoping to try and get to the LFS tonight so I can get started on the process...I should clarify. I had no success with live phyto with toxic dinos. It grew a bunch of pods, that later died in the toxic dino mucus, and the dinos grew a bunch more after.
phyto with large cell amphidinium is probably more likely to be helpful than with other dino types.
suck up a little bit of the brown material directly. Those are the photosynthetic organisms you care about.Last time I grabbed a sample of the algae/bacteria that was growing. Is this necessary or should I just be getting a water sample ?
I used silicates to get rid of dinos. It worked amazingly but I I'd mine before doing any kind of treatment. Silicates are good for any kind of dinos that stick to the sand like Large and Small cell amphidium. If you want to fight them the easy way and not just throw the kitchen sink at them I would 100% recommend identifying them so u don't go in blind and end up making it worse.What do people recommend to dose/test Silicates?
My LFS didn't seem to have anything and seemed surprised that I wanted something like that. I explained I'm looking to try and get a diatom bloom to counter the dinos.
They also didn't have any live copepods or phyto so I've had to order some online that I should hopefully see early next week.
I also got some Dr Tim's Waste Away to use once the dinos start/have disappeared.
Thanks, ID picture is quoted further up on post #1744.I used silicates to get rid of dinos. It worked amazingly but I I'd mine before doing any kind of treatment. Silicates are good for any kind of dinos that stick to the sand like Large and Small cell amphidium. If you want to fight them the easy way and not just throw the kitchen sink at them I would 100% recommend identifying them so u don't go in blind and end up making it worse.
I think they are prorocentrumThanks, ID picture is quoted further up on post #1744.
Looks like large cell amphidinium to me (could be wrong but noone has suggested otherwise so far?)
Taking a second look and seeing other posts from other people ID I'm thinking ur probably right. I really didn't want to be forking out for dang UV....I think they are prorocentrum
For sure. I had 2 UV’s going when I was trying to kill dinos. One jebao that I tossed when I was done (about a year) and my expensive aqua UV that sits in the garage collecting dust now.Taking a second look and seeing other posts from other people ID I'm thinking ur probably right. I really didn't want to be forking out for dang UV....
Couple of questions: I have the low range HI705 Hanna Silicate Checker. Do I need to multiply the number the Hanna gives me x the .467 to get the SiO2? Or do I just use the number the Hanna checker gives me?I'd no longer think of Si as something to dose to the level of NO3-N. Just get Si present and constantly available at a level that diatoms can use. For me, if my SiO2 was above 0.1-0.2ppm then diatoms had enough to grow. When I raised it higher ~1ppm SiO2, they didn't grow faster.
a few tenths to 1ppm SiO2 is a fine target, imo.
The checker reads in SiO2 already.Do I need to multiply the number the Hanna gives me x the .467 to get the SiO2? Or do I just use the number the Hanna checker gives me?
Gradually over weeks when nutrient goodies are available to grow new cells, the diatoms should do better And slowly increase in population.How long might it take for the diatoms to out consume the Dino’s?