Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[MickeysFins]

THEY'RE BACK!! And I can't believe I did this to myself!!!

Back in 2019 I was battling dinos for a long time and finally got rid of them. Well they are now back and totally overrunning my reef. I think I did this myself through a couple of stupid moves.

Looking through the scope they still look like LCA's. I've attached two videos below hoping someone will confirm for me. When I look at various samples most of them are not moving. I'd guess less than 10-25% are moving around. Sand is covered, and rocks are covered with this slimy, stringy mess that is loaded with bubbles by and of lighting period. Starting to cover bases of some corals. I see a very few cells that look like other kinds of dinos, but very few.

I know my nutrients are out of balance with Nitrates at 5 and Phosphate at 2 (yes, I mean 2 and not .2). For years nitrates were around 20 and phosphates high with no problems, then in last few months nitrates down to 5 but no change to phosphates. I am trying to bring phosphate down some and feeding more.

I'm currently reading (or rereading) some old threads on dinos, particularly the old one Twilliard started that starts out talking about metronidazole then moves into other things but I'm only a third of the way through. Not sure what the latest thoughts are on getting rid of this stuff.

Tank is a 225 with maybe 240 gallons TWV including sump. I brought the temp up to 81-82 and pH swings from 8.1-8.4. Stopped water changes. I'm starting to do manual removal but it's a challenge in a big tank.

Hoping someone can give me some workable ideas.
@taricha @jason2459 @ScottB

 

[ScottB]

THEY'RE BACK!! And I can't believe I did this to myself!!!

Back in 2019 I was battling dinos for a long time and finally got rid of them. Well they are now back and totally overrunning my reef. I think I did this myself through a couple of stupid moves.

Looking through the scope they still look like LCA's. I've attached two videos below hoping someone will confirm for me. When I look at various samples most of them are not moving. I'd guess less than 10-25% are moving around. Sand is covered, and rocks are covered with this slimy, stringy mess that is loaded with bubbles by and of lighting period. Starting to cover bases of some corals. I see a very few cells that look like other kinds of dinos, but very few.

I know my nutrients are out of balance with Nitrates at 5 and Phosphate at 2 (yes, I mean 2 and not .2). For years nitrates were around 20 and phosphates high with no problems, then in last few months nitrates down to 5 but no change to phosphates. I am trying to bring phosphate down some and feeding more.

I'm currently reading (or rereading) some old threads on dinos, particularly the old one Twilliard started that starts out talking about metronidazole then moves into other things but I'm only a third of the way through. Not sure what the latest thoughts are on getting rid of this stuff.

Tank is a 225 with maybe 240 gallons TWV including sump. I brought the temp up to 81-82 and pH swings from 8.1-8.4. Stopped water changes. I'm starting to do manual removal but it's a challenge in a big tank.

Hoping someone can give me some workable ideas.
@taricha @jason2459 @ScottB

Oh you chose the tough ones; pretty sure I see LCA. The circle in the middle had me thinking prorocentrum but the beak and the swim pattern look LCA.

My best thoughts on treatment are here, but resolving this species is a slow tough slog for most.

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread along with thousands of other dino threads. I did...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MickeysFins]

Thanks, Scott. I have read that guide, quite a few times actually. I'm trying to work out my next course of action which is why I reached out here in case anyone else has any great ideas.

Since these aren't known to be easy to get into the water column I hesitate to go the UV route because a properly sized UV for 240 gallons gets pretty pricey so holding that as a very last resort.

Read in several places that low nitrates had caused a dino explosion which I found interesting because that sort of tracks with my experience. Nitrates had been running 20-50 for years and only in the last few months did they drop which corresponds to this dino outbreak. But I think several other things contributed as well. I may try raising nitrates as part of my attack plan.

 

[CookieRdReef]

These are before and after shots from my 75g late 2020. I had amph dinos. I didn't really make a dent in them until I threw the kitchen sink at them (did lots of things people said worked for amph all at once). Trying one thing at a time did not work. I would start by raising nitrates and lower phosphates. Coral farmers use really high ratios like 100:1 or more so your ratio is not condusive to coral growth but good for dinos. I did the following:

Raised temp to 84
Dosed silicates to promote diatoms
Added biodiversity to outcompete: Lots and lots of pods, PNS Pro Bio
Removed some old sand and added Ocean Direct Live Sand
A lot of manual removal
Blackout for I think 5 days when things started to turn my way.

It sucked and I almost quit but I beat super bad amps as a newbie <1 year in reefer. Good luck.

 

[MickeysFins]

Thanks. My reef has been up for over 18 years and this is my second bout with LCA in 3-4 years. I plan on doing a multi approach similar to yours.

 

[MickeysFins]

Anyone know if a diatom filter will remove bacteria from the water? Asking because I'm going to use one to help remove the crud when I blow off the rocks, etc. but I also plan on adding bacteria (either Dr. Tim's or Microbacter 7). I'd hate to add all that good bacteria then just filter it back out again.

 

[Biglew11]

I'm pretty sure a diatom filter is fine enough to remove some bacteria from the water.

You could blow the rocks and stuff off and filter the water, then add the bacteria afterwards.

 

[MickeysFins]

Yeah, I'm blowing things off now and filtering (just without the diatomaceous powder). Based on what I see, I could blow off every day for quite a while and still be filtering out stuff. I just want to start adding the bacteria soon to help clear things out.

Maybe I'll blow off for a couple more days, then add bacteria every day for a week or so, then go back to blowing off. Just alternating.

Grr. I hate these dinos!