Another dosing help thread..

[vandy]

Appreciate that. you have a pic of how big your air pump is?

 

[rishma]

Appreciate that. you have a pic of how big your air pump is?

My tank is small, allowing me to experiment a bit easier. It’s only 25 gallons. Yours is much bigger. I’m using an Alita linear air pump. They are often used for ponds or industrial applications and come in many sizes.

Any air pump should work for the aeration test in a cup of water. Test that to see what pH you get fully aerated with outdoor air. If you want to pursue further I have ideas for how to implement on bigger tanks.

 

[scotty333]

There’s your answer then

I spent months on this going through everyone’s suggestions , huge air pumped in through an air stone ( no offense rishma I didn’t work for me ) I was fully airated which I knew after doing the stirring a jug of tank water outside trick didn’t work
I tried caustic soda and it just raised kh a little , sump light on 24/7 with a mass of Calurrpa growing
Adding a fan to draw air into the canopy of the aquarium ( it has a curtain covering the top )

I finally got a breakthrough when I did a 2 day blackout and my kh usage fell hard raised it up to 11 from 8
Since then ( 2 months ago) my kh is now at 9.5 and subsequently my ph is now constantly 8-8.2 and your right about one thing , it makes a heck of a difference
I imagine a 8.3 I’ll be fragging daily , just to give you an idea I’m now dosing 70ml of afr which equates to 1dkh per day

If your going to try it just go slow like .2 a day spread out as well

 

[Troylee]

Your ph meter has to be off… just topping off with fully saturated kalk in a sealed up house from the Vegas heat mine is much higher.

 

[rishma]

I spent months on this going through everyone’s suggestions , huge air pumped in through an air stone ( no offense rishma I didn’t work for me ) I was fully airated which I knew after doing the stirring a jug of tank water outside trick didn’t work
I tried caustic soda and it just raised kh a little , sump light on 24/7 with a mass of Calurrpa growing
Adding a fan to draw air into the canopy of the aquarium ( it has a curtain covering the top )

I finally got a breakthrough when I did a 2 day blackout and my kh usage fell hard raised it up to 11 from 8
Since then ( 2 months ago) my kh is now at 9.5 and subsequently my ph is now constantly 8-8.2 and your right about one thing , it makes a heck of a difference
I imagine a 8.3 I’ll be fragging daily , just to give you an idea I’m now dosing 70ml of afr which equates to 1dkh per day

If your going to try it just go slow like .2 a day spread out as well

No offense taken.

An outdoor aeration test in a cup of tank water will show you the pH potential with the method. Implementation to achieve at scale in the tank is not always straightforward.

 

[scotty333]

Your ph meter has to be off… just topping off with fully saturated kalk in a sealed up house from the Vegas heat mine is much higher.

It’s like my heartbeat lol

 

[rishma]

Your ph meter has to be off… just topping off with fully saturated kalk in a sealed up house from the Vegas heat mine is much higher.

No, your meter is off!!! Just kidding.

Your pH is quite high given those circumstances. I know that there are other things that impact pH. Maybe @Miami Reef upcoming pH article will educate me further. The back of my mind recalls Randy covering it in the past.

 

[Troylee]

No, your meter is off!!! Just kidding.

Your pH is quite high given those circumstances. I know that there are other things that impact pH. Maybe @Miami Reef upcoming pH article will educate me further. The back of my mind recalls Randy covering it in the past.

It took me a long time to get it that high.. once I had several large colonies growing extremely well it sky rocketed and has held that since… I do have my skimmer line ran outside also.

 

[rishma]

I do have my skimmer line ran outside also.

A while ago I turned off my outdoor air supply for a day. Big impact. Took 5 days to recover.

 

[vandy]

Your ph meter has to be off… just topping off with fully saturated kalk in a sealed up house from the Vegas heat mine is much higher.

I'll give it another calibration just to verify. If that doesn't work, I'll swap it out with a different one and see. Its only a 3mo old Milwaukee ph probe.. I calibrate every 30 days

 

[Miami Reef]

No, your meter is off!!! Just kidding.

Your pH is quite high given those circumstances. I know that there are other things that impact pH. Maybe @Miami Reef upcoming pH article will educate me further. The back of my mind recalls Randy covering it in the past.

Thanks for the tag. I’ve been excitedly working on this new article since last week.

Most of the advice in this thread is very accurate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I spent months on this going through everyone’s suggestions , huge air pumped in through an air stone ( no offense rishma I didn’t work for me ) I was fully airated which I knew after doing the stirring a jug of tank water outside trick didn’t work
I tried caustic soda and it just raised kh a little , sump light on 24/7 with a mass of Calurrpa growing
Adding a fan to draw air into the canopy of the aquarium ( it has a curtain covering the top )

I finally got a breakthrough when I did a 2 day blackout and my kh usage fell hard raised it up to 11 from 8
Since then ( 2 months ago) my kh is now at 9.5 and subsequently my ph is now constantly 8-8.2 and your right about one thing , it makes a heck of a difference
I imagine a 8.3 I’ll be fragging daily , just to give you an idea I’m now dosing 70ml of afr which equates to 1dkh per day

If your going to try it just go slow like .2 a day spread out as well

FWIW, there are a variety of reasons to select a particular alk, but I personally do not recommend weighing pH strongly into that.

The effect of alk on pH is not dramatic, but a large alk boost (say, 7 to 11 dKH) can cause a rise of 0.1 to 0.2 pH units (as seen in the graph posted earlier in this thread)

 

[Miami Reef]

but I personally do not recommend weighing pH strongly into that.

Can you elaborate on that bit? Are you saying someone shouldn’t desire higher alk if they want higher pH? Just want to make sure I understand.

 

[vandy]

No offense taken.

An outdoor aeration test in a cup of tank water will show you the pH potential with the method. Implementation to achieve at scale in the tank is not always straightforward.

I'd love to hear some recommendations on implementing on a bigger tank. I recall Jake Adams recommending an air line down one of the overflows had some positive ph effects on his tank

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you elaborate on that bit? Are you saying someone shouldn’t desire higher alk if they want higher pH? Just want to make sure I understand.

I should have been clearer. Since alk impacts many things, from direct impacts on corals to changes in alk when doing water changes to calcium carbonate precipitation potential, I just would not pick a high alk primarily because it gives a higher pH. I have no problem with it being one of the factors considered. :)

 

[rishma]

No offense taken.

An outdoor aeration test in a cup of tank water will show you the pH potential with the method. Implementation to achieve at scale in the tank is not always straightforward.

I'd love to hear some recommendations on implementing on a bigger tank. I recall Jake Adams recommending an air line down one of the overflows had some positive ph effects on his tank

In the overflow is a good place to start, but I have not done it in a tank with a full siphon overflow like a herbie or beananimal. I would worry to air bubbles would mess up the siphon, but I have not experimented.

In my next tank, which will be much larger, I’ll have a dedicated aeration chamber made from a large diameter pipe. Like a recirculating skimmer body with flow coming in at the top and existing the bottom through a standpipe, then into the sump. Taller the better. Counter current flow. A shorter height would allow you to direct the overflow drain right into the aeration chamber. A taller height could use a small pump to feed it.

Big air-stones at the bottom. Big alita air pump drawing outdoor air.

I use a course sponge at the top of my current aeration chamber to prevent salt spray.

 

[Miami Reef]

I should have been clearer. Since alk impacts many things, from direct impacts on corals to changes in alk when doing water changes to calcium carbonate precipitation potential, I just would not pick a high alk primarily because it gives a higher pH. I have no problem with it being one of the factors considered. :)

Fair enough. I respect it. Makes sense.

I have a slightly different opinion.

Assuming the goal of higher pH is for elevated growth

In my experience, alk is perfectly fine up to 11 dKH. I think there’s a lot of fear mongering with higher alk, but let’s put that aside for now.

High alk will lead to a higher pH after equilibrium with CO2. Not so drastic, but has some effect.

The exact tank running 10dKH will consume more alk than the same tank at 7 dKH. Both from abiotic and biotic precipitation.

If using high pH additives (like hydroxide or carbonate,) the higher alk demand can have a compounded effect on the additive’s pH boost, simply because more will need to be dosed.


A few criteria needs to be met: needs to use carbonate or hydroxide for alk and also needs to have a decent alkalinity demand.

Bare tanks using all for reef or bicarbonate for the alk won’t get any pH benefit, even if raising the alk. But raising the alk can still have some positive effect on growth for many corals, even if the pH is lower.


Do most people need to do this? Heck nah. A tank can be very happy with pH as low as 7.8.



But for people like me who gets a rush from competing in grow-out contests? It’s what gives me an edge over my competitors.

 

[vandy]

Fair enough. I respect it. Makes sense.

I have a slightly different opinion.

Assuming the goal of higher pH is for elevated growth

In my experience, alk is perfectly fine up to 11 dKH. I think there’s a lot of fear mongering with higher alk, but let’s put that aside for now.

High alk will lead to a higher pH after equilibrium with CO2. Not so drastic, but has some effect.

The exact tank running 10dKH will consume more alk than the same tank at 7 dKH. Both from abiotic and biotic precipitation.

If using high pH additives (like hydroxide or carbonate,) the higher alk demand can have a compounded effect on the additive’s pH boost, simply because more will need to be dosed.


A few criteria needs to be met: needs to use carbonate or hydroxide for alk and also needs to have a decent alkalinity demand.

Bare tanks using all for reef or bicarbonate for the alk won’t get any pH benefit, even if raising the alk. But raising the alk can still have some positive effect on growth for many corals, even if the pH is lower.


Do most people need to do this? Heck nah. A tank can be very happy with pH as low as 7.8.



But for people like me who gets a rush from competing in grow-out contests? It’s what gives me an edge over my competitors.

Does ph buffer at 10dkh that significantly over 7.5-8?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Does ph buffer at 10dkh that significantly over 7.5-8?

What actual question are you asking?

 

[Troylee]

Can you elaborate on that bit? Are you saying someone shouldn’t desire higher alk if they want higher pH? Just want to make sure I understand.

Well that’s been my hands on experience.. I just bumped my alk up from 7 to 9.5 and my ph didn’t really change.. my alk usage went way up and it’s a lot more to maintain but I didn’t really see a difference in my ph. Maybe .1 or .2 at the very most! It wouldn’t be recognizable in terms of growth from a ph standpoint.