Battery Backup

[wcharon]

Hi to all...

Hope everything is OK and sorry if i couldn't get the answer on prior threads answered and explained by @JDJP and @ZombieEngineer that seems to be the Experts.

I don't have knowledge on electronics so sorry if i say or ask a dumb question. I want to build a Battery Backup system in order to run 2 Gyres Maxpect XF-250 and possible the return Pump Varios-6 at the same time for let's say 2 days. All of them are 24V.

At the moment i have the Gyres running on a Belkin battery but it only runs for 3 hours at 30%.

I have been reading and seen that i need a AGM Deep Cycle Battery, Maintainer and Charger, Inverter and Auto Switch but far of knowledge to decide which ones. i went to Amazon and put these items on my cart and have a total roughly of $526.00 on items but how to know if i am in the right route deciding on the items. if you want i can send you the links of the items.

As you can see i am a novice in this of electronics and that's why i asked for your help. By the way i have 3 Generator but looking for some more time while i get to the house.

Thanks in advance if you can help me out.

 

[CasperOe]

Following! Sorry for unhelpful comment- and best of luck with the project!

 

[ZombieEngineer]

You don't need the inverter if you ditch the power supplies in favor of fuses and barrel connectors.

If you aren't electrically inclined and knowledgeable it's far easier to get a UPS with a connection for an external battery and just hook up a large battery there.

 

[wcharon]

You don't need the inverter if you ditch the power supplies in favor of fuses and barrel connectors.

If you aren't electrically inclined and knowledgeable it's far easier to get a UPS with a connection for an external battery and just hook up a large battery there.

Thanks @ZombieEngineer ...

So if i get a Computer UPS which i assume you are referring to the important part is get it to have the external connection?

We are talking something like the APC brand UPS?

 

[tnw50cal]

You don't need the inverter if you ditch the power supplies in favor of fuses and barrel connectors.

If you aren't electrically inclined and knowledgeable it's far easier to get a UPS with a connection for an external battery and just hook up a large battery there.

Walk us thru this, with suggestions on what to buy PLEASE,PLEASER,PLEASE.

 

[wcharon]

Walk us thru this, with suggestions on what to buy PLEASE,PLEASER,PLEASE.

I was going to ask the same but didn't want to abuse of the confidence. Tried to put it another way. jajajajajajaj

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

There are YouTube Videos on how to hook two 12 Volt Batteries together to make 24 Volts. Amazon has 24 Volt Chargers/Maintainers. RIB Relay to switch from Street Power to Battery. If the Battery doesn’t come with Stainless Steel Wing Nuts, I’d Swap them out. You don’t want a Metal Wrench, Burns are a hazard, if you arc between post. Lead Acid Deep Cycle from Walmart. Even if the Batteries say Maintenance free, don’t believe it. Pop the Caps off every one to two months, an add Distilled Water. I would get as many 12Volt Fountain Pumps as you need, and run them off a single battery. (Have Two on my 65 Gallon, that will run more than a week.) I Got bored checking the battery. Remember to Fuse your loads. .

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Thanks @ZombieEngineer ...

So if i get a Computer UPS which i assume you are referring to the important part is get it to have the external connection?

We are talking something like the APC brand UPS?

This is the cheapest option I have found so far that requires little to no DIY or electrical knowledge.

APC UPS 1500VA Battery Backup Surge Protector, BR1500G Backup Battery Power Supply with AVR https://a.co/d/7a10eUl

This one is 187Whr by itself. Using their external battery pack, you can add 518Whr extra capacity. If you make your own external battery pack by buying two 12V deep cycle barrettes and connecting using the same connector their battery pack uses, you could get even more capacity.

At the same time, you will need to tamp your expectations on how much flow and/or how long you can get from a battery backup. To run two gyres at 30% and your return pump for 2 days, you need two 150Ah 12V batteries for a total of 3600Whr (or parallell combination of smaller packs). If you instead ran 1 gyre at 1% that number changes to two 23Ah batteries for a total of 550Whr, which is about where your typical car battery lands. If a battery lists reserve capacity instead of Ah, multiply that number that number by 40% to get Ah.

 

[wcharon]

This is the cheapest option I have found so far that requires little to no DIY or electrical knowledge.

APC UPS 1500VA Battery Backup Surge Protector, BR1500G Backup Battery Power Supply with AVR https://a.co/d/7a10eUl

This one is 187Whr by itself. Using their external battery pack, you can add 518Whr extra capacity. If you make your own external battery pack by buying two 12V deep cycle barrettes and connecting using the same connector their battery pack uses, you could get even more capacity.

At the same time, you will need to tamp your expectations on how much flow and/or how long you can get from a battery backup. To run two gyres at 30% and your return pump for 2 days, you need two 150Ah 12V batteries for a total of 3600Whr (or parallell combination of smaller packs). If you instead ran 1 gyre at 1% that number changes to two 23Ah batteries for a total of 550Whr, which is about where your typical car battery lands. If a battery lists reserve capacity instead of Ah, multiply that number that number by 40% to get Ah.

Perfect. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Will do my math and evaluate which of the 2 options is better but from what you have explained and i understood the best option is reduce the flow required and get the 2 12v batteries.

Actually with that being said i think using the 2 Gyres and eliminate from the equation the Return Pump is even better.

Hope i understood correctly.

 

[wcharon]

@ZombieEngineer and others.

Hope everything is OK. Yesterday per your advice i decided to re-evaluate the project. Found that i was misunderstanding with the voltage of both equipment's. The Gyres are 24V and the Return Pump is 36V. My bad.

Right now i have the Gyres running at 30% when the electricity goes out with a Belkin Battery Backup which is 12V working great for 3 hours for both Gyres. The Gyre Controller reduces the speed automatically as it is only receiving 12V from the Belkins.

So after saying that i think the project can be easier and it is stay with the 12V configuration and avoid the Return Pump but with more usage time.

If i am correct this leads me to 2 options:

1. If possible, try to daisy chain the 2 Belkin Batteries together to get 6 hours out of both. can this be done?
2. Get a 12V 150ah Deep Cycle Battery with clip alligators and male DC Connector and hook it to the Controller of the Gyre.

The Belkin Battery automatically detects when the power goes out and switch to DC so i will have to make this if i have to go with the option 2. This will avoid the Power Inverter i think and will be going straight 12v all the way. What plug and play cable / connections / automatic transfer switch you recommend if this is the best route to take?

Sorry for all the questions but want to be as clear as possible. Attached is a pic of the Belkin with the DC Male Plug just in case for reference.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

1. If possible, try to daisy chain the 2 Belkin Batteries together to get 6 hours out of both. can this be done?
2. Get a 12V 150ah Deep Cycle Battery with clip alligators and male DC Connector and hook it to the Controller of the Gyre.

Option 1 would likely work. I would need to see the guts to be certain, but very good chance for it to work safely.

Option 2 is likely to overload and damage your power supplies. Most consumer grade power supplies do not have current limiting built in and will see the battery as a short and overheat and/or burn up. The charger is a necessity for this kind of application because it limits the current to safe values so nothing overheats.

It is possible to effectively recreate a larger version of what your belkin is doing, but it's a bit more complex than the other options. This would require a battery charger, battery, large diode, 12V relay, fuse, wire, and barrel connector. This would be very complex if you aren't well versed in electronics, so I would steer clear if you are inexperienced.

 

[wcharon]

Option 1 would likely work. I would need to see the guts to be certain, but very good chance for it to work safely.

Option 2 is likely to overload and damage your power supplies. Most consumer grade power supplies do not have current limiting built in and will see the battery as a short and overheat and/or burn up. The charger is a necessity for this kind of application because it limits the current to safe values so nothing overheats.

It is possible to effectively recreate a larger version of what your belkin is doing, but it's a bit more complex than the other options. This would require a battery charger, battery, large diode, 12V relay, fuse, wire, and barrel connector. This would be very complex if you aren't well versed in electronics, so I would steer clear if you are inexperienced.

Thanks once again. Ok when i get home i will open it and take some pictures of the inside of the unit.

 

[wcharon]

Thanks once again. Ok when i get home i will open it and take some pictures of the inside of the unit.

Good Night @ZombieEngineer ...

Here are the pics promised to see if I can have luck... Please let me know any doubt.

Thanks once again for your time.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

The schematic for that is not publicly available and there are way to many components to try and figure that out from pictures. There are definitely the kind of circuitry that should limit the current to safe levels regardless of capacity, and should only change charging time if you used a larger battery. There is also a user replaceable fuse too that should work as a last resort.

It seems likely you could either parallell matching batteries to get more capacity or replace with a battery with larger capacity and it should work. The only way to know for sure would be to test it and see how it works (18 hours charge time per 7.2Ah of battery, so you will need to wait a long time to do a load test). If your car is in need of a new battery, reusing the old one as a test subject might be a worthwhile test and/or attempting to parallell the battery from the other belkin as in initial test.

 

[wcharon]

The schematic for that is not publicly available and there are way to many components to try and figure that out from pictures. There are definitely the kind of circuitry that should limit the current to safe levels regardless of capacity, and should only change charging time if you used a larger battery. There is also a user replaceable fuse too that should work as a last resort.

It seems likely you could either parallell matching batteries to get more capacity or replace with a battery with larger capacity and it should work. The only way to know for sure would be to test it and see how it works (18 hours charge time per 7.2Ah of battery, so you will need to wait a long time to do a load test). If your car is in need of a new battery, reusing the old one as a test subject might be a worthwhile test and/or attempting to parallell the battery from the other belkin as in initial test.

Perfect. So for test i can buy a new battery with higher capacity or paralell the 2 batteries to see what we get.

I will PM you...