Bayer Insecticidal Coral Dip

ihavecrabs · Apr 18, 2016

5-6 ml of Bayer per cup of saltwater for 10 minutes. Smooth skin acros id do less time 6-8 minutes just because they are a little more sensitive.

Always swish the coral around in the dip or have a dedicated powerhead for your "dip bucket" to blow off any flatworms or other pests.

Works extremely well.

mrcoffee2 · Apr 19, 2016

This post scares me as it has no warnings towards using Bayer. Bayer is extremely toxic to humans. You have to be careful with this stuff!!!

I use it as 10ML to 4 ounces of water for 5 minutes. I blast the entire time with a syringe.

Make sure you rinse anything you dip with bayer excessively.

dbl · Apr 19, 2016

mrcoffee2 said:
This post scares me as it has no warnings towards using Bayer. Bayer is extremely toxic to humans. You have to be careful with this stuff!!!

I use it as 10ML to 4 ounces of water for 5 minutes. I blast the entire time with a syringe.

Make sure you rinse anything you dip with bayer excessively.

Post #11 mentions it, but it's an excellent point. We need to be very careful when using this product.

mrcoffee2 · Apr 19, 2016

dbl said:
Post #11 mentions it, but it's an excellent point. We need to be very careful when using this product.

Like fine print? =D

IMHO, it should be in the first post. There will be 100's of people who only read the first post and make a decision from there.

redfishbluefish · Apr 19, 2016

OK, time for a summary update and an editorial!

SUMMARY OF RESPONSES (mls of Bayer per 100 mls of tank water)
Redfishbluefish..........1
BryanS4.....................Skim Milk
icecool2......................5
Rsaalman...................2.1
kschweer....................1+
dbl..............................8.3
HM3105 (1)................5
HM3105 (2)...............8.3
hawkinsrgk................8.3
vic67..........................Skim Milk
Waboss.....................Weak Skim Milk
Joker..........................White Water
ihavecrabs.................2.1 - 2.5
mrcoffee2.................8.3

EDITORIAL
I've been using Bayer since 2012 and came up with the dose I'm using (1ml/100mls tank water) from THIS VIDEO from GuyWalker1219, that was uploaded Aug., 2011. In this video he used 0.8mls Bayer per 100 mls, and since a number of others had posted higher dosage uses, I upped my dose to 1 ml just to make it simple. Note that he had shown that at this 0.8 ml dose he was killing "AEFW, Montibranch's, Red Bugs and all other know pests." Ideally I would have liked to have seen a study that showed effective dose to kill 99% of the pests, but that just hasn't been done. In my mind's eye, the dosage amount could potentially be lowered if this kind of study was done.

Knock on wood, I have never had an issue with pests using Bayer, and only lost one coral, which I'm 95 percent sure that the loss was from shipment time and not the dip. So my experience at 1ml/100mls has shown me that it is certainly an effective dose that has minimal if any impact on the health of the coral. I have also never seen any negative effects on the tank when the corals were placed after the dip/rinse. With that said, I'd like to review what I consider proper dipping procedures.

1. Inspect the coral for any visual pests....looking specifically for eggs.
2. If applicable, remove the coral from the plug. Do not dip the plug (only if it's plastic)
3. Using tank water, mix the dip. I typically make 300 mls if I have 1 to 4 corals to dip.
4. Dip the coral for a period of time, with occasional swishing/swirling. I typically dip for 15 minutes.
5. Rinse the coral in another small container using tank water, and let it sit in rinse water for 3-5 minutes.
6. Repeat rinse with another change of water. Do not return any rinse water to the tank...it gets dumped down the sink.
7. Remount frag to a new plug or glue directly into the tank.

REPORTED ISSUES WITH BAYER
Some have reported tank effects once the dipped coral has been placed into their tank. Sufficient information has not been supplied to directly identify the cause of why this is happening. However, I'm going to give some plausable explainations why this might be happening. Just to state, Bayer should NEVER be used directly in your tank or on live rock. It is a poison to many creatures we keep. Accordingly, you don't want any Bayer to get into your tank, and do whatever you need to do to keep it out. Here are hypotheses of why some have seen tank issues:

1. The plug was left on the frag when dipping and became saturated with dip solution that is not completely rinsed off during the rinsing process. It slowly leaches back out once placed in the tank.
2. The dosage is so high that the coral absorbs excessive amounts of dip that do not immediately rinse off and again, slowly leach back out once placed in the tank.

This is one of the concerns I have with those using what I consider very high levels of Bayer. If 0.8 mls per 100 work, why raise that up over 10 fold to 8.3 mls per 100. I'm not sure where these numbers came from, but believe that they could cause for levels of Bayer showing up in your DT, especially if you're dipping a bunch of corals.

blackgrouper79 · Apr 19, 2016

60 ounces to 1.5 gallons of tank water will fry pretty much everything. I think I was supposed to use 2 gallons with 60 ounces of tank water OOPS

redfishbluefish · Apr 19, 2016

blackgrouper79 said:
60 ounces to 1.5 gallons of tank water will fry pretty much everything. I think I was supposed to use 2 gallons with 60 ounces of tank water OOPS

Where do you get these numbers from? This is like Tim the Toolman Taylor........If a little works, a whole bunch more will work that much more! :eek: Converting both the 1 1/2 and 2 gallon dilutions to mls of Bayer to 100 mls of tank water comes out to 31.7mls and 23.8mls, respectively. If 0.8 mls has been shown to work, why go that much higher? Is it any wonder some are seeing tank issues.

To put it differently, that 60 ounces of Bayer could be used to make 59.5 gallons of effective coral dip.

blackgrouper79 · Apr 19, 2016

mrcoffee2 said:
Like fine print? =D

IMHO, it should be in the first post. There will be 100's of people who only read the first post and make a decision from there.

Very true about people just skimming through the post. People really do need to read all of the post if nothing else just to get an average assessment of what to do or not to do like I did-I knew I was screwing up when I did what I did and I've kick myself everyday since (I lost a couple K in frags I'm lucky a few pulled through). People need to read all of the post and the bottle of POISON that they'll be working with. The gene pool is screwed up enough :confused:

blackgrouper79 · Apr 19, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
Where do you get these numbers from? This is like Tim the Toolman Taylor........If a little works, a whole bunch more will work that much more! :eek: Converting both the 1 1/2 and 2 gallon dilutions to mls of Bayer to 100 mls of tank water comes out to 31.7mls and 23.8mls, respectively. If 0.8 mls has been shown to work, why go that much higher? Is it any wonder some are seeing tank issues.

To put it differently, that 60 ounces of Bayer could be used to make 59.5 gallons of effective coral dip.

Yup oops!

Luvs501s · Apr 19, 2016

dbl said:
Just got done using Bayer to dip some corals from a swap today. I shoot for 10ml Bayer to 4 oz water, but usually just eyeball it to a skim milk look and dip for 10-15 minutes. Rinse twice, all done with tank water.

Just converted @ndz98 this evening to Bayer.

I agree this dosage works for me as well.

blackgrouper79 · Apr 19, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
Where do you get these numbers from? This is like Tim the Toolman Taylor........If a little works, a whole bunch more will work that much more! :eek: Converting both the 1 1/2 and 2 gallon dilutions to mls of Bayer to 100 mls of tank water comes out to 31.7mls and 23.8mls, respectively. If 0.8 mls has been shown to work, why go that much higher? Is it any wonder some are seeing tank issues.

To put it differently, that 60 ounces of Bayer could be used to make 59.5 gallons of effective coral dip.

I can't remember exactly where I got the #s from but I think I forgot to carry a zero or two because I was planning on making a mix for 2 gallons and decided 1.5gallons was enough after I had already added the bayer. My fault and I'm reminded every day I look at my tank and the look from the wife that screams I TOLD YOU SO. It has been a major loss especially because I was planning on trading some frags for a frag tank and lighting set up. If anyone has any frags that they'ed like to donate (I've got the shipping, a few bucks and a big thank you--the wife has been happier :rolleyes:) or sell for cheap let me know. Once things make a comeback I'd be happy to repay the favor and hopefully with some "signature" corals.

ndz98 · Apr 20, 2016

I did the 10 ml of Bayer to 4 oz of water too just like @dbl told me. I dipped 5 corals and all look good and healthy in the tank so far! Can't believe I didn't dip any of my other corals before...the Bayer method is so easy lol. Thankfully I guess I got lucky (knock on wood) and didn't get any hitchhiker on my other coral.

Also The skim milk thing is too funny lol

sithrico · Apr 20, 2016

I use 2.5mls for 100mls. Then what I found that gets rid of it faster. To rinse in straight RO/DI water for around 5 secs. Then put in my tank water for 10 mins. The crap that comes off during the RO/DI dip is amazing. No affect of corals either. Always open up right away.

hybridazn · Apr 20, 2016

I used to do the 10ml of bayer to 4oz of tank water. With that I was still able to get red bugs in my system (last year). I have since upped it to 20ml bayer to 4oz of water and show no ill effects with the corals during and after the dip.

redfishbluefish · Jul 21, 2016

I wanted to update this summary because a couple more people having responded, and we now have a coral distributor (Murfreesboro Aquatics) who has published there dosage usage of Bayer HERE.....at about 5 mls per 100 mls of tank water.

So here's the updated summary:

SUMMARY OF RESPONSES (mls of Bayer per 100 mls of tank water)
Redfishbluefish..........1
BryanS4.....................Skim Milk
icecool2......................5
Rsaalman...................2.1
kschweer....................1+
dbl..............................8.3
HM3105 (1)................5
HM3105 (2)...............8.3
hawkinsrgk................8.3
vic67..........................Skim Milk
Waboss.....................Weak Skim Milk
Joker..........................White Water
ihavecrabs.................2.1 - 2.5
mrcoffee2.................8.3
blackgrouper79(1)....31.7
blackgrouper79(2)....23.8
Luvs501s...................8.3
ndz98.......................8.3
sithrico.....................2.5
hybridazn.................16.9
Murfreesboro...........5

TheEngineer · Jul 21, 2016

The Murfreesboro approach is what I do. They have a great step-by-step on their website.

Keith_0011 · Jul 21, 2016

I do 36mls Bayer for 3 cups of tank water. I believe I found this dose somewhere here on R2R.
This breaks down to 5ml bayer per 100ml tank water if i have done my math correctly.
I dip 15 minutes with several agitations using a syringe.
I triple rinse all frags with the first rinse coming with carbon also. 15 minutes all rinses. No tank water goes back into the tank.
Never had any problems with any frags. Mostly Zoas, Acans, Montis

watchguy123 · Jul 21, 2016

I still do it the same as I described in this thread
http://reef2reef.com/threads/bayer-insecticide-as-a-coral-dip.100496/

10 mls to 4 ounces of saltwater (tank or frag water) five minutes and then dip/rinse with tank water (but not in tank!!!!) for five minutes. I have added a second quick dip.

But the precautions still are appropriate

It's a poison: wear glasses and do not let it contact your skin, use in a well ventilated space and dispose appropriately. I use large tweezers to handle frags through the second rinse. Read the precaution label on Bayer, they are not kidding.

First step after recognizing precautions:

1) Thoroughly inspect frag for eggs or bite marks. If found, throw out frag--doesn't matter what you paid for frag, it's not worth it

2) remove plug even if encrusted. If impossible to remove plug, cyanoacrylate over plug up to to encrustation and then overlap glue into encrustation. Eggs are most commonly found at base.

3) I never add mini colonies on rock because critters can be deep in rock, impossible to see, and mini colonies are just about impossible to completely assess for eggs or critters anyway

4) dip........

watchguy123 · Jul 21, 2016

There are many different dosages and durations utilized of Bayer dip. The best protocol would be the least Bayer for the shortest time. I think it remains conjecture what that may be.