Benthic sharks with urchins?

[meir]

Get 1000 lbs of the biggest pieces around

 

[meir]

So I'd do not 1000 lbs but say 100 lbs remember u need space the rock is only for bio filtration

 

[meir]

Sry abt the one before I wasn't thinking do 100 not 1000

 

[LadAShark]

Sry abt the one before I wasn't thinking do 100 not 1000

But the required amount I heard was 1 lb per gallon? then again, that makes me wonder where all of that is going to be put :/

WAIT! Does live sand count towards this number?

 

[meir]

But the required amount I heard was 1 lb per gallon? then again, that makes me wonder where all of that is going to be put :/

WAIT! Does live sand count towards this number?

If u do 1000 lbs per gallon then where is everyone supposed to swim

 

[meir]

Plus ur not doing a reef tank this is somewhat of a FOWLR

 

[BoneXriffic]

Sry abt the one before I wasn't thinking do 100 not 1000

Then edit your post. Its getting real hard to follow this thread with all the clutter, not to mention the op has to quote 15 posts to respond to you.

Lad, I think that is a general and irrelevant guideline for a tank.

But in keeping with it...how much rock will be your sump... ive nearly got as much rock in my sump as i do in the tank lol. Im sure that counts

 

[meir]

Then edit your post. Its getting real hard to follow this thread with all the clutter, not to mention the op has to quote 15 posts to respond to you.

Lad, I think that is a general and irrelevant guideline for a tank.

But in keeping with it...how much rock will be your sump... ive nearly got as much rock in my sump as i do in the tank lol. Im sure that counts

Ok look I'm sry for the clutter I didn't know u could edit but as for the tank this isn't a reef tank it's for horseshoe crabs and sharks or whatever other bottom dwelling creatures a large amount of LR won't allow them to comfortably move around on the sand bed with adequate space. true if he wants he can fill his sump or fuge with LR but it's just not practical to have so much LR in a non reef tank. I've seen it for rays where all the rock was put in this custom 100 gallon sump, where the water would flow threw it and back into the DT and all the bio filtration was done there

 

[meir]

But the required amount I heard was 1 lb per gallon? then again, that makes me wonder where all of that is going to be put :/

WAIT! Does live sand count towards this number?

As I replied to @BoneXriffic you could make a custom 100 gallon plastic sump or fuge and put it in there

 

[nitrodude]

You nailed this none good, also the rays can be debarbed...i think some pencils with be safe for all involved...with or without horseshoes

This is absolutely wrong. You cannot "de barb" a ray. You can clip the barb which is somewhat cruel and stresses out the ray. And it would need to be cut on a bi-weekly-monthly basis. Not worth the hassle. Rays generally won't sting a shark anyways.

But the required amount I heard was 1 lb per gallon? then again, that makes me wonder where all of that is going to be put :/

WAIT! Does live sand count towards this number?

You want the least rock in the tank as possible. More swimming room the better. Id use as much rock as needed to make caves/hideaways in the tank. Rest of your biological should be in the sump.
Marinepure blocks (research leaching alum)
Pond matrix
Bio spira
Etc
All are very pourous material to maximize your available space.
Good skimmer is a must.
A tank that size a fluidized sand pool filter would be a nice option.
As well as a carbon tank.
Nitrate export will be your main goal. Lots of large water changes, macro algae etc.

1000g tank will need 200-300g water changes done constantly. Each water change will cost you 1-1.5 boxes of salt. Plus rodi.
Plus you need a water storage vat to mix that amount of saltwater in.

This size tank will require a substantial amount of money and commitment to build and maintain.

 

[BoneXriffic]

This is absolutely wrong. You cannot "de barb" a ray. You can clip the barb which is somewhat cruel and stresses out the ray. And it would need to be cut on a bi-weekly-monthly basis. Not worth the hassle. Rays generally won't sting a shark anyways.



You want the least rock in the tank as possible. More swimming room the better. Id use as much rock as needed to make caves/hideaways in the tank. Rest of your biological should be in the sump.
Marinepure blocks (research leaching alum)
Pond matrix
Bio spira
Etc
All are very pourous material to maximize your available space.
Good skimmer is a must.
A tank that size a fluidized sand pool filter would be a nice option.
As well as a carbon tank.
Nitrate export will be your main goal. Lots of large water changes, macro algae etc.

1000g tank will need 200-300g water changes done constantly. Each water change will cost you 1-1.5 boxes of salt. Plus rodi.
Plus you need a water storage vat to mix that amount of saltwater in.

This size tank will require a substantial amount of money and commitment to build and maintain.

Arent the rays kept in the pet tanks at seaword and such clipped? Didnt realize they needed more than once. It seems sensable however that they main form of defense could regrow.

 

[Mistborn]

Ime urchin spines aren't as sharp as you think, and shark skin is much tougher than you think lol. I've stepped on urchins and they barely broke my skin. Idk about your sharks, but unless they're made to eat the urchins they probably won't.

 

[nitrodude]

Arent the rays kept in the pet tanks at seaword and such clipped? Didnt realize they needed more than once. It seems sensable however that they main form of defense could regrow.

Yes, seaworld continuously maintians the barbs on their rays in the touch tanks. Doesnt mean it isnt stressful on the ray.
Not to mention, the people there are trained in doing this and the rays are used to getting it done constantly.
Now, take a wild caught ray, and a guy with no experience trim a rays barb, one of them is going to get hurt.

 

[LadAShark]

As I replied to @BoneXriffic you could make a custom 100 gallon plastic sump or fuge and put it in there

Yeah I am planning on making something like this with a whole lot of extremely porous rock. I'll put some live rock in there and turn it all into live rock. I'm actually considering using a barrel to do this, although that's problematic in many ways, so I might just stick to plastic.

Yes, seaworld continuously maintians the barbs on their rays in the touch tanks. Doesnt mean it isnt stressful on the ray.
Not to mention, the people there are trained in doing this and the rays are used to getting it done constantly.
Now, take a wild caught ray, and a guy with no experience trim a rays barb, one of them is going to get hurt.

Yeah, I was pretty much aware of this. I'm one of those people who get worried about the off chances. Like it might not kill me getting stung, but what if a fish gets stung? So if I get a ray, I will be debarbing it.

Ime urchin spines aren't as sharp as you think, and shark skin is much tougher than you think lol. I've stepped on urchins and they barely broke my skin. Idk about your sharks, but unless they're made to eat the urchins they probably won't.

That's excellent news. And since I'm not planning to get horn sharks (which are literally made to eat urchins) then I can grab a few urchins. I know that shark skin is tough, but I also know that it's sensitive and can grt scratched by thing that wouldn't bother us :/

This is absolutely wrong. You cannot "de barb" a ray. You can clip the barb which is somewhat cruel and stresses out the ray. And it would need to be cut on a bi-weekly-monthly basis. Not worth the hassle. Rays generally won't sting a shark anyways.



You want the least rock in the tank as possible. More swimming room the better. Id use as much rock as needed to make caves/hideaways in the tank. Rest of your biological should be in the sump.
Marinepure blocks (research leaching alum)
Pond matrix
Bio spira
Etc
All are very pourous material to maximize your available space.
Good skimmer is a must.
A tank that size a fluidized sand pool filter would be a nice option.
As well as a carbon tank.
Nitrate export will be your main goal. Lots of large water changes, macro algae etc.

1000g tank will need 200-300g water changes done constantly. Each water change will cost you 1-1.5 boxes of salt. Plus rodi.
Plus you need a water storage vat to mix that amount of saltwater in.

This size tank will require a substantial amount of money and commitment to build and maintain.

Yeah caveways are the plan. I was already planning to have a 200-300 gallon sump filled with macroalgae and porous live rock. I might, however, just get some large barrels and stack some of those extremely porous rocks vertically (barrels can get tall, tanks can't).

Rodi is not that much of a problem. Salt? I'll just buy it bulk... Or so I say.

I'm not really sure if it will require a 300 gallon water change. Maybe if it was once a month it might require that much. Do remember that that's a 30% water change. Anyway, if I really do need monthly water changes of that size: I can get some sort of drip irrigation system going that slowly pumps out old saltwater at a rate 6.6-10 gallons per day while refilling it with an equivalent amount of premixed saltwater.

Plus, electricity is cheap where I live (yay Oregon!), so I'm not really worried about my overall monthly costs running that high. Including energy costs, I'm looking at around $75 monthly, actually. Cheaper than the phone bill lol. The highest I could actually end up paying monthly if I am horribly inefficient is $200 a month. Of course, this isn't taking into account the fish food, though I don't think that will take up that much if I shop right.

Who needs their yearly $1000-$2400 dollar vacation anyways? Haha.

 

[BoneXriffic]

Yes, seaworld continuously maintians the barbs on their rays in the touch tanks. Doesnt mean it isnt stressful on the ray.
Not to mention, the people there are trained in doing this and the rays are used to getting it done constantly.
Now, take a wild caught ray, and a guy with no experience trim a rays barb, one of them is going to get hurt.

Good info. Ive kept a small ray once in an old 100gal by itself because of its barb...it was a rescue. Turned it over to a decent lfs after a few weeks of healing

 

[nitrodude]

I literally just said you cant debarb a ray and youre saying you would? Not even to mention the fact actual debarbing is impossible-but trimming the barb constantly is just cruel to the ray and you still want to do that....

And yes-with sharks, you need to do huge water changes constantly or nitrates will be through the roof. A full grown shark will EACH eat 3-6 medium frozen shrimp at feeding time. A 6" ray will eat a whole medium shrimp. Thats a TON of waste. And big water changes are necessary. Small couple gallon per day water changes like people do with reef tanks wont cut it. You need to do a large water change every 2 weeks.
14.2g per day water change over 14 days is not equivalent to a 200g water change at once.

Also-Food gets expensove quick. Price out bags of raw frozen foods. Youll go through a couple pounds a week with multiple sharks

 

[nitrodude]

Good info. Ive kept a small ray once in an old 100gal by itself because of its barb...it was a rescue. Turned it over to a decent lfs after a few weeks of healing

Good for you for getting him to a proper home.

 

[Naiad]

Rock urchins are not very sharp. Long spines and fire urchins are a different game. Fire urchins are actually a totally different planet.

 

[LadAShark]

I literally just said you cant debarb a ray and youre saying you would? Not even to mention the fact actual debarbing is impossible-but trimming the barb constantly is just cruel to the ray and you still want to do that....

And yes-with sharks, you need to do huge water changes constantly or nitrates will be through the roof. A full grown shark will EACH eat 3-6 medium frozen shrimp at feeding time. A 6" ray will eat a whole medium shrimp. Thats a TON of waste. And big water changes are necessary. Small couple gallon per day water changes like people do with reef tanks wont cut it. You need to do a large water change every 2 weeks.
14.2g per day water change over 14 days is not equivalent to a 200g water change at once.

Also-Food gets expensove quick. Price out bags of raw frozen foods. Youll go through a couple pounds a week with multiple sharks

My bad, I meant trimming. I know you can't pull out their barbs, they would bleed to death. (Please tell me there's no one who would do that, PLEASE). I'm only considering trimming if I do get one. However, while I know it would be stressful for the animal, I'm not sure I want to rely on it being unlikely to sting its tankmates. I'm against animal cruelty, so if it really comes down to it, I simply won't get a ray, simple as that.

Wouldn't small every day water changes at least delay the big water changes though?

I have some plans up my sleeves for food, so don't worry.

One part of the plan: I live close to the oregon coast, so I'm actually just planning to go there every now and then to collect mussels, which I intend to pasteurize and feed to the sharks. In fact, there are a lot of markets down close to the sea that I can visit for MUCH cheaper freshly caught seafood. So you'd be right if you said feeding them would be expensive if it wasn't for how close I am to a cheap source of seafood.

That gets me thinking... I could perhaps just rent a large truck every now and then, buy a bunch of buckets, and just bring home a huge amount of salt water every several months... Of course, I'd filter the water, but still, a good possibility. I'd need 1200 gallons for around 2 months right? Not impossible to do.

 

[BoneXriffic]

Wouldnt large reactors cut down the need for as many water changes. And 10percent bi weekly, granted you have a great clean up crew for detrius is 100galx2 per month... nitrates will be biggest factor which arent so toxic to fish. And having the nutrient eating plants in the sump and live rock. Accompanying reactors should keep water decent i suppose... would an algae scrubber maybe also further the reduction of you water changes? Also powerheads dusting the bed and rock to keep detrius out.