CoralReefer1019
Well-Known Member
I put GFO Reactor Offline, and will monitor water parameters. I don't have a separate section for a refugium I will cut some eggcrate and section off the skimmer so cheato can't get sucked up into inlet portion.
Best Leds for Chaeto?
- Thread starter BigJohnny
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I put GFO Reactor Offline, and will monitor water parameters. I don't have a separate section for a refugium I will cut some eggcrate and section off the skimmer so cheato can't get sucked up into inlet portion.
I thought I'd share my findings from some research I've been doing on using Chaeto to export nutrients in my 10 gallon system.
Lighting: Photosaturation occurs at 400PAR [1]. I'm unsure of how this translates directly to PUR, but BRS talked about it in their review [2].
Photoperiod: I'm not aware of any studies on what ideal is. [1] states they're using 15:9 light:dark but then it appears to be the reverse on their charts. You can definitely see nutrients being reduced more quickly when the lights are on, but a resting period may be necessary. A common method is to use 12 hours on, 12 hours off.
pH: Increases when the algae is lit due to oxygen production and other factors [2].
Nutrient Export: A simple rule of thumb is 10g of dry macroalgae will reduce nitrate by 10ppm and phosphate by .1ppm in a 67-gallon aquarium [4]. For Chaeto, this varies based on the nutrient content of the water [1]. See the charts in [1] for estimates based on nutrient content and aquarium size.
Nutrient Limitation/Imbalance: Growth is P limited when N
ratios exceed 11-24. Growth is N limited when N ratios drop below 8-16 [1]. When N is enriched, the algae can apparently transfer some of this for storage in the chlorophyll. Therefore, you may be able to determine nutrient imbalance just by looking at the color of the algae. "N deficiency typically decreases photosynthetic pigments (Falkowski and Owens, 1980)". Iron depletion may require dosing as well, although I'm unsure of symptoms other than slowing growth [5]
With this data, you should be able to estimate the amount of Chaeto needed to export a desired amount of nutrients from your systems and in what concentrations. Hopefully it helps many of you run more efficient 'fuges and solve issues with poorly growing macro.
[1] MARGARITA MENÉNDEZ1 and F.A. COMÍN1. Spring and Summer Proliferation of Floating Macroalgae in a Mediterranean Coastal Lagoon.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Delta_NE_Spain
[2] https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...s-coming-next/
[3] MARGARITA MENÉNDEZ1, JORGE HERRERA2 and F.A. COMÍN1. Effect of nitrogen and phosphorus supply on growth,
chlorophyll content and tissue composition of the
macroalga. http://scimar.icm.csic.es/scimar/pdf/66/sm66n4355.pdf
[4] http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php
[5] http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry
Lighting: Photosaturation occurs at 400PAR [1]. I'm unsure of how this translates directly to PUR, but BRS talked about it in their review [2].
Photoperiod: I'm not aware of any studies on what ideal is. [1] states they're using 15:9 light:dark but then it appears to be the reverse on their charts. You can definitely see nutrients being reduced more quickly when the lights are on, but a resting period may be necessary. A common method is to use 12 hours on, 12 hours off.
pH: Increases when the algae is lit due to oxygen production and other factors [2].
Nutrient Export: A simple rule of thumb is 10g of dry macroalgae will reduce nitrate by 10ppm and phosphate by .1ppm in a 67-gallon aquarium [4]. For Chaeto, this varies based on the nutrient content of the water [1]. See the charts in [1] for estimates based on nutrient content and aquarium size.
Nutrient Limitation/Imbalance: Growth is P limited when N
ratios exceed 11-24. Growth is N limited when N ratios drop below 8-16 [1]. When N is enriched, the algae can apparently transfer some of this for storage in the chlorophyll. Therefore, you may be able to determine nutrient imbalance just by looking at the color of the algae. "N deficiency typically decreases photosynthetic pigments (Falkowski and Owens, 1980)". Iron depletion may require dosing as well, although I'm unsure of symptoms other than slowing growth [5] With this data, you should be able to estimate the amount of Chaeto needed to export a desired amount of nutrients from your systems and in what concentrations. Hopefully it helps many of you run more efficient 'fuges and solve issues with poorly growing macro.
[1] MARGARITA MENÉNDEZ1 and F.A. COMÍN1. Spring and Summer Proliferation of Floating Macroalgae in a Mediterranean Coastal Lagoon.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Delta_NE_Spain
[2] https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...s-coming-next/
[3] MARGARITA MENÉNDEZ1, JORGE HERRERA2 and F.A. COMÍN1. Effect of nitrogen and phosphorus supply on growth,
chlorophyll content and tissue composition of the
macroalga. http://scimar.icm.csic.es/scimar/pdf/66/sm66n4355.pdf
[4] http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php
[5] http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry
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BigJohnny
2500 Club Member
I thought I'd share my findings from some research I've been doing on using Chaeto to export nutrients in my 10 gallon system.
Lighting: Photosaturation occurs at 400PAR [1]. I'm unsure of how this translates directly to PUR, but BRS talked about it in their review [2].
Photoperiod: I'm not aware of any studies on what ideal is. [1] states they're using 15:9 light:dark but then it appears to be the reverse on their charts. You can definitely see nutrients being reduced more quickly when the lights are on, but a resting period may be necessary. A common method is to use 12 hours on, 12 hours off.
pH: Increases when the algae is lit due to oxygen production and other factors [2].
Nutrient Export: A simple rule of thumb is 10g of dry macroalgae will reduce nitrate by 10ppm and phosphate by .1ppm in a 67-gallon aquarium [4]. For Chaeto, this varies based on the nutrient content of the water [1]. See the charts in [1] for estimates based on nutrient content and aquarium size.
Nutrient Limitation/Imbalance: Growth is P limited when N
With this data, you should be able to estimate the amount of Chaeto needed to export a desired amount of nutrients from your systems and in what concentrations. Hopefully it helps many of you run more efficient 'fuges and solve issues with poorly growing macro.
[1] MARGARITA MENÉNDEZ1 and F.A. COMÍN1. Spring and Summer Proliferation of Floating Macroalgae in a Mediterranean Coastal Lagoon.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Delta_NE_Spain
[2] https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...s-coming-next/
[3] MARGARITA MENÉNDEZ1, JORGE HERRERA2 and F.A. COMÍN1. Effect of nitrogen and phosphorus supply on growth,
chlorophyll content and tissue composition of the
macroalga. http://scimar.icm.csic.es/scimar/pdf/66/sm66n4355.pdf
[4] http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php
[5] http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry
Interesting, thanks for posting. I personally disagree with the rules of thumb (as nice as that would be) and the ability to estimate the amount of chaeto needed based on those results, but that's a discussion for another thread.
I will quickly say that i believe the best way to implement a refugium is to have as big of one as possible (within reason) and use a powerful horticulture spectrum light, adjusting par (height or dimming) or photoperiod of the fixture to fine tune its performance and therefore your nutrient levels.
Now back to the best led lights for chaeto and some reviews of them!
What light do you plan on using?
I have to agree with BigJohnny. I don't think there is a simple way to figure out how much chaeto is needed from tank to tank. That said I have to agree that lighting is the biggest importance. I can tell you with the mars hydro 300w fixture my growth in chaeto in 1 week is unreal. Its so good in fact, that I'm able to reduce a .05PPM of Phosphate to zero within 24 hours with an 8-10 hour photo cycle. I have been dosing seachem phospate daily now until I get some bioload in my tank. My nitrates dropped from 50 to 15-20 in less than a week without any water changes. I do notice that once the Phospate bottoms out the growth and nitrate uptake is somewhat stalled. Here is about a weeks worth of growth:
I just selected a few Cree and Osram LEDs with spectra that matched the h380 and the known chlorophyll absorption spectra. So 2 Royal Blue, 2 Deep Red, 1 Red. I should have added some in the 400-430 range but I was too cheap. Par is around 400-600. This is just in the back chamber of my Nuvo Fusion 10. Nutrients are low, but a few times when they spiked the growth really picked up.
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BigJohnny
2500 Club Member
Nice
So I ordered and received the growstar 150w led light. It does indeed pull only 67 watts, but man is that thing loud. It looks to be a standard 80 mm computer fan, so I'll probably replace it, as it's ***** annoying. Thought I would share some pics of the internals for folks interested in the build quality.
If anyone has the 300w, I'd be curious as to the internals, like what's the powersupply etc...
Fan page :
http://fan-cooling.com/product_view.asp?id=34
If anyone has the 300w, I'd be curious as to the internals, like what's the powersupply etc...
Fan page :
http://fan-cooling.com/product_view.asp?id=34
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BigJohnny
2500 Club Member
Man you gave up on those osrams quick! You'll love the growstar. I never noticed (or maybe cared) that it was loud but that's probably because it only runs at night and I'm rarely in there then.So I ordered and received the growstar 150w led light. It does indeed pull only 67 watts, but man is that thing loud. It looks to be a standard 80 mm computer fan, so I'll probably replace it, as it's ***** annoying. Thought I would share some pics of the internals for folks interested in the build quality.
If anyone has the 300w, I'd be curious as to the internals, like what's the powersupply etc...
Fan page :
http://fan-cooling.com/product_view.asp?id=34
I'm getting insane growth; i have a near solid brick of chaeto filling my fuge to the brim and the walls of my fuge are getting covered in coralline. Ive just been flipping and compressing it for fun, instead of trimming, and it just keeps filling out. Working too well, had to cut my photoperiod again. My tanks not fully stocked yet though.
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BigJohnny
2500 Club Member
The refugium was running well before I switched the lights. I have no idea how much because I don't measure or weigh or anything and density can vary obviously. Near solid brick isn't an exact term so any information I provide you will be useless (especially because we don't have identical systems), except for the fact that it works very well and atleast 2x as well as my previous mars hydro par38 in a home depot reflector. The answer you're looking for is yes, it grows chaeto extremely well and costs $40.
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BigJohnny
2500 Club Member
Bubbles on the chaeto is good unless it's actually bubbles on cyano or dino on chaeto. I agree that you must have very little flow on the surface of the water. I don't have a powerhead in my fuge but the speed of the flow through the sump and over the baffle keeps the surface moving quickly/skims the surface. I think a powerhead should solve your issue.Might be having a problem.
I'm growing cheato but I'm getting this thick film on the surface of the water and a lot of air bubbles on the algae.
Any idea what's going on here?
Christopher Davis
Valuable Member
Let me find it! Hold tight!
Christopher Davis
Valuable Member
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BigJohnny
2500 Club Member
The link says its a 13w led but your insta post says 29w? Also what are the dimensions of your fuge? Its hard to tell how much chaeto you grew in 2 weeks without that info. Just curious
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