Bolus dosing

[rtparty]

Wouldn’t it also be reasonable that if one doses a solution at half the potency, it wouldn’t drop the pH as much, if at all?

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

Wouldn’t it also be reasonable that if one doses a solution at half the potency, it wouldn’t drop the pH as much, if at all?

It typically spikes my pH, not decreases

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

If we say 5,500ml with 500g in = 0.0909090909g per ml then I dose 16.82g of fauna bicarb per day in a 185ml batch.

I'll dose 16.8g of both powders and see the results.

 

[ReneReef]

Also if you look at percentage of amount seen vs dosed it looks a little different. Fauna = 50% of dose seen and bicarb = roughly 75%

I don’t think the percentage is the relevant thing to look at here.

The 5ltr is interesting. Fauna instructions for balling light suggest filling the containers to the top of the cap neck which is 5.5ltrs when using their cans (I do).

Then the instruction have changed. It used to say to fill to 5 liters. But back then they also were rather vague….

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

I don’t think the percentage is the relevant thing to look at here

Surely it has to be if we are saying I dosed less dkh than I thought I was? Seems to be the only way to compare like for like based on that data set?

If I dosed for example 10dkh and 'lost' 0.6 by the first test an hour later then that'd look very different compared with this, you'd be looking at a loss of only 6% of total amount dosed.

Also see here:

 

[Beruka]

I don’t think anybody in here is questioning the method. That was proven decades ago. FM certainly isn’t progressing the hobby in any way especially with their claims. It’s the claims that can’t be substantiated in any way

Yeah I dont get why it has so much attention unless new to hobby.

II tend to go backwards in hobby myself. I run a Mazzei skimmer injector off danner mag pump. add Kalk at night and run Panasonic air exchanger in basement in day in winter to move out CO2 a bit.

It maybe the long pulpit type videos that draw people.

 

[Beruka]

Wouldn’t it also be reasonable that if one doses a solution at half the potency, it wouldn’t drop the pH as much, if at all?

hmm.. not really. pH and alkalinity are not linear and same.

If you add half as much alkalinity and measure alkalinity at same time each day, then alkalinity would trend down.

Bolus had an element of chasing pH claiming kalk would fail to raise pH high enough over time. If you remove CO2 from room and add kalk it goes up.

Then you buy more trace elements instead of water changes OH now I get it. :rolleyes:

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

Then you buy more trace elements instead of water changes OH now I get it. :rolleyes:

Except for the fact Fauna recommend a weekly 10% water change, as is the norm.

However, Trace 3 for example costs £20.99 over here for 500ml, that's enough trace for 100ltrs of alk solution at 25ml per 5 ltrs.

Other than DIY it's the cheapest dosing system I've used or seen I think.

 

[Beruka]

No way it is cheaper than kalk

 

[twentyleagues]

No way it is cheaper than kalk

I am sure it is not. Every form of dosing has its benefits and draw backs. Kalk you can only dose so much before you are out of room (Evap) or possible ph issues. Kalk is great just not always stand alone.

 

[Garf]

No way it is cheaper than kalk

You don't get any intentional trace materials with kalk however, which I believe was his point. The trace from FM is very cheap, if it does anything beneficial.

 

[Pod_01]

You don't get any intentional trace materials with kalk however, which I believe was his point. The trace from FM is very cheap, if it does anything beneficial.

What is not mentioned is that there are 3 trace bottles. Trace 1 and Trace 2 go into calcium and Trace3 into alk. This is the base system.

After that you send in your ICP and they recommend number of separate element bottles and water changes etc…

For example I always ended up with list of deficient elements:

From my experience when you add it all up it is premium priced system.

 

[Beruka]

I have full blown 180 filled with SPS. I just use BRS kalk and 15% weekly water changes from a norwesco to a rubber made. Never need calcium.

I do make up potassium but dont use traces. Poison as much as helpful. I trust IO to add some.

 

[Vrolikii]

What is not mentioned is that there are 3 trace bottles. Trace 1 and Trace 2 go into calcium and Trace3 into alk. This is the base system.

After that you send in your ICP and they recommend number of separate element bottles and water changes etc…

For example I always ended up with list of deficient elements:

From my experience when you add it all up it is premium priced system.

I have been following this thread for quite a while, so now my first post here...

Yes indeed, you will receive multiple single element dosing recommendations with your ICP result, especially for trace metals. But I guess ATI and Triton handle it the same way in their analysis? In all cases pretty misleading for a lot of people.
From my understanding and the way many other people operate Balling Light (or other comparable supply systems) single element dosing is not necessary and adjusting the three trace solutions in case of Balling Light is fully enough (+maybe a few major elements if they are completely off). Actually Fauna Marin is communicating it the same way. In my case I just use the basic system without any single element dosage.
ICP-OES is anyway not sensitive enough in the ultra low concentration regime at which many trace metals occur. If I just take the basic system and compare it to other popular and comparable supply systems on the german market Balling Light is definitely a cost-effective system.

As for any other full system, the comparison to kalk is not reasonable as no major elements and trace elements are supplied with it. Of course it is much cheaper. The same way it is cheaper to just use CaCl2 and NaHCO3/NaCO3.

With respect to the FM KH Mix it would be interesting to know which polymers are inside and what the function is. Because that is a definitely a difference to "standard" NaHCO3. I don´t understand the intension behind the polymers in the FM KH Mix.

 

[Garf]

I don´t understand the intension behind the polymers in the FM KH Mix.

There is no evidence that this ingredient is real. By Faunas admission, it's just bicarb.

 

[Vrolikii]

There is no evidence that this ingredient is real. By Faunas admission, it's just bicarb.

I was told that bicarb is the inorganic ingredient, but that there is an organic ingredient (polymer and more?) in the Mix.

 

[Pod_01]

Yes indeed, you will receive multiple single element dosing recommendations with your ICP result, especially for trace metals. But I guess ATI and Triton handle it the same way in their analysis? In all cases pretty misleading for a lot of people.
From my understanding and the way many other people operate Balling Light (or other comparable supply systems) single element dosing is not necessary and adjusting the three trace solutions in case of Balling Light is fully enough (+maybe a few major elements if they are completely off). Actually Fauna Marin is communicating it the same way. In my case I just use the basic system without any single element dosage.
ICP-OES is anyway not sensitive enough in the ultra low concentration regime at which many trace metals occur. If I just take the basic system and compare it to other popular and comparable supply systems on the german market Balling Light is definitely a cost-effective system.

Yes you can adjust the traces as per their calculator:

I did, my Trace 3 was at 75ml, don’t remember the others but the tank based on the ICP was not stable. When using the system something was always off. Also when I used it FM was big on OES… I believe they are changing with the ICP 2.0.

Odd enough Trace2 doesn’t contain Molybdenum yet the dose is adjusted based on it.

Anyways, I moved on to the other German system, TM Original Balling with A and K. Seems to work well for me and there is lot less mystery associated with it. I am also saving money, no monthly ICP tests and things are looking good.

With respect to the FM KH Mix it would be interesting to know which polymers are inside and what the function is. Because that is a definitely a difference to "standard" NaHCO3. I don´t understand the intension behind the polymers in the FM KH Mix.

Question was asked, unfortunately FM ignored it.

On your web site you claim that your Balling Light product

". To further aid in restoring and maintaining chemical balance, we’ve developed and added an Organic Peptide Polymer to our Balling salts. This key ingredient helps remove excess elements from the water column."

https://www.faunamarin.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/FM_HTU_Balling_Light_System_EN.pdf
Can you clarify which "excess elements" you believe are being exported, and why you believe they are present in excess in aquariums that use your product?

Being an expert professional polymer chemist who works everyday with peptides, I do not need an explanation of what the material is and I'm not asking for the identity, just clarification of what this purported benefit is.

Thank you.

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

What is not mentioned is that there are 3 trace bottles. Trace 1 and Trace 2 go into calcium and Trace3 into alk. This is the base system.

After that you send in your ICP and they recommend number of separate element bottles and water changes etc…

For example I always ended up with list of deficient elements:

From my experience when you add it all up it is premium priced system.

You've also completely overlooked the fact I used an example for KH as that's what's being discussed. At no point did I state it was all you needed for a 3 part dosing system.

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

No way it is cheaper than kalk

That's firmly under the DIY dosing category I mentioned.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t know how or if said peptide polymer makes its way from FM to the tank, but it is not present at any reasonable quantity in the alk mix powder. That material matches both the ir spectrum and alk of pure sodium bicarbonate. Perhaps it is present in other parts.