CHEAP PAR meter

[IceNein]

Regardless of what any of you have done or intended, if you read the Amazon reviews for any PAR meter, you will get tons of people saying that the PAR meter they got was used. If I am going to spend money on a PAR meter, I want it to be new, so that I can know how well that PAR meter was treated. If I want to abuse it, fine, it's my money. But I want to receive a brand new, never been used PAR meter.

I would be angry if I bought a PAR meter and someone had borrowed it.

So what ever anybody meant, this is a thing that routinely happens, and because it does, I have thought twice about whether or not I want to buy one from Amazon.

 

[Devaji]

Regardless of what any of you have done or intended, if you read the Amazon reviews for any PAR meter, you will get tons of people saying that the PAR meter they got was used. If I am going to spend money on a PAR meter, I want it to be new, so that I can know how well that PAR meter was treated. If I want to abuse it, fine, it's my money. But I want to receive a brand new, never been used PAR meter.

I would be angry if I bought a PAR meter and someone had borrowed it.

So what ever anybody meant, this is a thing that routinely happens, and because it does, I have thought twice about whether or not I want to buy one from Amazon.

yeah that sucks I was looking at some a while back and did not buy due to this.

I am in the same boat as the OP I would like to have a somewhat accurate par meter to get a pretty good idea where I am at. I have a few tanks, there might be more in the not so near future too. sooo.
so having one around could be a good idea.

 

[Devaji]

@shrimplover if you get one do let us know your thoughts. pretty please

 

[trini2debone]

Regardless of what any of you have done or intended, if you read the Amazon reviews for any PAR meter, you will get tons of people saying that the PAR meter they got was used. If I am going to spend money on a PAR meter, I want it to be new, so that I can know how well that PAR meter was treated. If I want to abuse it, fine, it's my money. But I want to receive a brand new, never been used PAR meter.

I would be angry if I bought a PAR meter and someone had borrowed it.

So what ever anybody meant, this is a thing that routinely happens, and because it does, I have thought twice about whether or not I want to buy one from Amazon.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. I have nothing to do with many strangers returning stuff. Or are you saying it's okay for him to call me a thief without any evidence of such?

Knowing someone will be pedantic: Fraud, in a court of law is a form of thieft.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Show me were I said buy it with the intention of using and returning, you can't...

You said this…

I have one of these it works really great and accurate... You can return it also within 30 days, if you no longer need it.

If you meant something different it was not clearly stated, especially given the context of the conversation in the posts preceding your comment.

Reading comprehenion, it's a vital life skill.

It certainly is. So is communicating clearly and in context to a conversation.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Regardless of what any of you have done or intended, if you read the Amazon reviews for any PAR meter, you will get tons of people saying that the PAR meter they got was used. If I am going to spend money on a PAR meter, I want it to be new, so that I can know how well that PAR meter was treated. If I want to abuse it, fine, it's my money. But I want to receive a brand new, never been used PAR meter.

I would be angry if I bought a PAR meter and someone had borrowed it.

So what ever anybody meant, this is a thing that routinely happens, and because it does, I have thought twice about whether or not I want to buy one from Amazon.

Return fraud is rampant and cost over 100 Billion last year and rises over 20% per year. This is separate from theft or other retail fraud.

These costs are passed on in the form of higher prices, lower product quality (to maintain margin) etc.

Yes it is frustrating to buy something new that somebody else “rented for free” for a few days or weeks. Retailers shouldn’t sell as “new” but they simply can’t absorb the insane volume of return fraud. Tools, home goods, clothing, even groceries.

 

[trini2debone]

You said this…


If you meant something different it was not clearly stated, especially given the context of the conversation in the posts preceding your comment.


It certainly is. So is communicating clearly and in context to a conversation.

I clearly communicated (How do I know this? The initial poster understood.) You're just projecting. Again; every accusation is an admittance of guilt. Therapy, check it out. . It really does work.

The only post I responded to was the initial one. Unlike you, I don't scan the internet looking for fights. Fueled by a guilty conscience.

A return period is a legal right in most states/countries. Buyer's remorse, i.e. no longer needing something for whatever reason, is a legal right. Either learn the law in entirety or stop quoting snippets until your understanding of the law is above elementary school level.

 

[IceNein]

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. I have nothing to do with many strangers returning stuff. Or are you saying it's okay for him to call me a thief without any evidence of such?

Knowing someone will be pedantic: Fraud, in a court of law is a form of thieft.

I am not trying to point out anyone, just that it seems very common for PAR meters to be borrowed using Amazon's return policy, and that it has stopped me from wanting to buy one because of that. I honestly don't care if you have or haven't done that, or if you have or haven't told people to do that. You are clearly not the criminal mastermind behind this problem, you just mentioned something that many many other people already do.

I'm just saying that I don't like it.

I don't lose sleep at night over it, and I am not accusing you of anything. Via con dios! =)

I can definitely understand how you might feel personally attacked here.

 

[trini2debone]

I am not trying to point out anyone, just that it seems very common for PAR meters to be borrowed using Amazon's return policy, and that it has stopped me from wanting to buy one because of that. I honestly don't care if you have or haven't done that, or if you have or haven't told people to do that. You are clearly not the criminal mastermind behind this problem, you just mentioned something that many many other people already do.

I'm just saying that I don't like it.

I don't lose sleep at night over it, and I am not accusing you of anything. Via con dios! =)

I can definitely understand how you might feel personally attacked here.

Humblest apologies, thank you for sharing and clarifiying.

 

[Idech]

I use an app, a waterproof pocket and my phone.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I clearly communicated (How do I know this? The initial poster understood.) You're just projecting.

You did not clearly communicate, or we would not be having this conversation.

This entire exchange is predicated on your wording and the comments prior to your post. The meaning is not clear and implies that a product can be returned after being used simply because you no longer need it. If your intent is to argue the meaning of "no longer need" then it is no wonder that we are engaged in an argument and I would implore you to use a better choice of words to be better understood.

The only post I responded to was the initial one. Unlike you, I don't scan the internet looking for fights. Fueled by a guilty conscience.

This is a linear conversation on a forum, and while we all sometimes respond to a post without reading the prior posts, doing so is an easy way to find one's self responding out of context. You entered the conversation in the middle of a joke and exchange about return fraud. If you have not looked at the posts and conversation prior to this exchange, maybe you should.

A return period is a legal right in most states/countries. Buyer's remorse, i.e. no longer needing something for whatever reason, is a legal right. Either learn the law in entirety or stop quoting snippets until your understanding of the law is above elementary school level.

The overall discussion was regarding spirit, intent and ethics of returns and what constitutes return fraud. Having a pedantic argument about the definition of "no longer need" is a straw-man in that sense.

The context and conversation was that purchasing an item for the purpose of using it and returning it is unethical and/or return fraud. I don't think there is anything to argue about here.

I am happy to have a conversation, but please refrain from the petty insults. Reddit is the perfect place if you want to participate in a dunking contest.

 

[Devaji]

I use an app, a waterproof pocket and my phone.

have you confirmed your reading with a "trusted" par meter?
I would be OK with even 5-10% off in readings as long as we knew.

 

[BeanAnimal]

have you confirmed your reading with a "trusted" par meter?
I would be OK with even 5-10% off in readings as long as we knew.

As long as you knew what?

I keep asking this rhetorically - food for thought wise.

I don't think anybody here can explain what the readings (being close, exact, 10% off, etc.) mean.

The phone apps compared to better sensors are not even in the ballpark with regard to accuracy and the error is typically very non-linear so a simple "multiplier" can't be applied.

I personally think that the vast majority of people who are using PAR meters are not gaining any advantage from their use. There are some exceptions, but they are rare. If you have multiple systems with the same lighting, then they can be very useful for relative light levels when moving corals. However, of those systems have different lights or different settings, than the PPFD reading is back to being pretty useless.

 

[Johnd651]

Photone app question... blue/white led mode?

Ppfd?

 

[EliMelly]

Return fraud is rampant and cost over 100 Billion last year and rises over 20% per year. This is separate from theft or other retail fraud.

These costs are passed on in the form of higher prices, lower product quality (to maintain margin) etc.

Yes it is frustrating to buy something new that somebody else “rented for free” for a few days or weeks. Retailers shouldn’t sell as “new” but they simply can’t absorb the insane volume of return fraud. Tools, home goods, clothing, even groceries.

This happened to me with a skimmer

 

[EliMelly]

You did not clearly communicate, or we would not be having this conversation.

This entire exchange is predicated on your wording and the comments prior to your post. The meaning is not clear and implies that a product can be returned after being used simply because you no longer need it. If your intent is to argue the meaning of "no longer need" then it is no wonder that we are engaged in an argument and I would implore you to use a better choice of words to be better understood.



This is a linear conversation on a forum, and while we all sometimes respond to a post without reading the prior posts, doing so is an easy way to find one's self responding out of context. You entered the conversation in the middle of a joke and exchange about return fraud. If you have not looked at the posts and conversation prior to this exchange, maybe you should.


The overall discussion was regarding spirit, intent and ethics of returns and what constitutes return fraud. Having a pedantic argument about the definition of "no longer need" is a straw-man in that sense.

The context and conversation was that purchasing an item for the purpose of using it and returning it is unethical and/or return fraud. I don't think there is anything to argue about here.

I am happy to have a conversation, but please refrain from the petty insults. Reddit is the perfect place if you want to participate in a dunking contest.

What did I start…

 

[Idech]

have you confirmed your reading with a "trusted" par meter?
I would be OK with even 5-10% off in readings as long as we knew.

I haven’t but the Youtuber who gave me the idea did and recorded it. I have easy corals so for now it’s good enough for me.

 

[SueAbu]

Cheapest par meter is ordering one from Amazon and returning it after.

Well, I'll get in trouble for this, apparently, but I read this and said "duh! Of course!", and got on Amazon.

Now, before you jump down my throat, I decided that when I bought one, I'd loan/rent it out locally, not return it. I think we have 3, maybe 4 reefing stores in all of the STATE and they don't rent out....

 

[SueAbu]

What did I start…

I'm telling ya... Unless this person is Jeffrey Bezos, in disguise, I'm not sure why the discussion got so passionate. As for that matter, I don't think ole Jeff is going to even notice my $155 for a returned meter.

 

[enlighten]

Mods really need to nip these side discussions in the bud. Sometimes I feel like its better to stay on topic for OP. Make a new thread if its really worth having a full discussion about.

I have the seneye v6 as stated before, I kind of do want to test em side by side with the Vabira (with multiplier) and the Apogee.

If this already has been done, would be great for someone to share! It should be noted that not all par meters read the same spectrum, and not everyone has the same type of lighting, eg t5, halides, led. So whose to say what is the standard? I think we use Apogee by default, idk why, maybe its because they sell the most expensive meter? Maybe they have the science to back it up. Industry leader, etc.

But either way, i think knowing par or at least getting a reference is a must for those getting into expensive coral or just those wanting to set their coral up to thrive.

I wish they were more accessible, I wish money wasnt a factor in our lives and capitalism the heart of business. But for $150-500, just to take light readings one time and then be set in a drawer... cmon.

IMO, we need better local communities, clubs, and people willing to help one another out in the hobby. Not argue about a billionaires business model.

I understand not everyone has the luxury of neighbors with similar interests, so it is what it is.

OP, hope you found some valuable info in your query! If youre in my area, i do par readings for my local people.