Chronic 0 Nitrates / 0 Phosphates

[Atoll on me]

My tank is coming up on the 4 month mark and my Nitrates and Phosphates are always 0. This is a problem I have had with tanks in the past.

My other parameters:

• Temp - 77
• Salinity - 1.025
• DKH - 9-10
• PH - 8.2

Tank Details:

• Feeding - I feed a large amount of either flake or frozen food daily.
• 55 gallon display
• Roughly 25 gallon sump
  • Protein skimmer - I've had the skimmer cup off for about a month in attempt to raise nitrates and phosphates while also having the skimmer run for gas exchange
  • Reefmat 500 for filtration
  • Refugium - I had chaeto in their but removed it a month ago to try to raise nitrates and phosphates. Currently it is just water and some rock
• Dosing - I have all for reef on an auto doser for 8mg two times daily
• Dosing - About two weeks ago I stared dosing NeoNitro and NeoPhos daily. I have had days where I get low levels of Nitrates or Phosphates, but cannot get them to stick. I have been increasing my dosing amounts but have had no success.

Im currently dealing with dinos and I believe it is because I dont have nitrates or phosphates. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Mattiejay6]

Why don’t you start manually dosing nitrates and phosphates? It’s a good problem to have.

You can look up mix yourself products on the forum that may be more potent and better lasting. However, you may be fighting yourself with dosing the Alreef stuff at the same time.

 

[MoshJosh]

Are you manually dosing N and P? If so, could try dosing regularly with a pump. . . could also try slowing the fleece roller?

 

[BryanM]

My tank is coming up on the 4 month mark and my Nitrates and Phosphates are always 0. This is a problem I have had with tanks in the past.

My other parameters:

• Temp - 77
• Salinity - 1.025
• DKH - 9-10
• PH - 8.2

Tank Details:

• Feeding - I feed a large amount of either flake or frozen food daily.
• 55 gallon display
• Roughly 25 gallon sump
  • Protein skimmer - I've had the skimmer cup off for about a month in attempt to raise nitrates and phosphates while also having the skimmer run for gas exchange
  • Reefmat 500 for filtration
  • Refugium - I had chaeto in their but removed it a month ago to try to raise nitrates and phosphates. Currently it is just water and some rock
• Dosing - I have all for reef on an auto doser for 8mg two times daily
• Dosing - About two weeks ago I stared dosing NeoNitro and NeoPhos daily. I have had days where I get low levels of Nitrates or Phosphates, but cannot get them to stick. I have been increasing my dosing amounts but have had no success.

Im currently dealing with dinos and I believe it is because I dont have nitrates or phosphates. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I just went through this, still going through this actually....

I dosed NeoNitro, NeoPhos, and MicroBacter7, with seemingly good results so far. Nitrates 20 phos .24.

I would up your dosing.

 

[Miami Reef]

Keep the protein skimmer and roller mat ON. They will help remove organics and whole dino clumps which will help.

Dose at least 0.10ppm PO4 and 10ppm nitrate at one shot to help saturate the rocks quicker; less testing needed, and it will hasten the process.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’d either feed more or dose more.

If you have corals, I’d consider switching to food grade ammonium bicarbonate when the neonitro runs out, and food grade sodium phosphate when the neophos runs out.

 

[Red_Beard]

Second Randy and Miami's comments. I also struggled with that problem at about month 5, i was completely floored how much i had to dose to keep detectable levels. Over the span of 2 months i dosed a big bottle and a half of neophos and a whole big bottle of neonitro while still feeding heavy. Give it time, your rockwork and sand is probably soaking the phosphate up like a sponge too, as new rock will. I did switch over to Ammonium Bicarbonate dosing as Randy had suggested and have been very happy with that change. Much more cost effective, and i see colors i hadnt before in my sps/lps.

 

[Atoll on me]

I’d either feed more or dose more.

If you have corals, I’d consider switching to food grade ammonium bicarbonate when the neonitro runs out, and food grade sodium phosphate when the neophos runs out.

I have ordered the ammonium bicarbonate and Sodium Phosphate. I have read some forums and believe I have a handle on the sodium phosphate solution dosing amount....I think.

What I cannot figure out is how much of the Ammonium Bicarb solution to dose. In your post you say that .01 ppm ammonia is equivalent to .036 ppm nitrate. Then later say that to add .01mg/l of ammonia to the system ill dose 2.3 ml of stock solution. What I cannot figure out is how the .01mg/l of ammonia translates to the .036 of nitrate. Then subsequently how many ml of stock solution to dose to add nitrate? I believe I'm just missing something as chemistry and math have never been strong suits of mine. Thank you for any help!

On a side note. I've read on some of the other posts that the ammonia dosing wont necessarily reflect to nitrate levels being read, but the benefits of nitrate levels in the tank will still be there. Am I understanding that correctly? And if so will the benefits of the ammonia effect the dinos in the way im looking for increased nitrates to>

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The reason the nitrate ppm is more than the ammonia ppm is because a nitrate molecule weighs more than an ammonia molecule, so one ammonia becomes one heavier nitrate, and ppm is weight based.

But I would not get hung up on trying to peg a particular nitrate. I would not try it all at once anyway, and you may get a lot less nitrate than expected as corals take up the ammonia instead of letting bacteria convert it into nitrate. The "benefit" to some nitrate, no matter how much ammonia is dosed, is to ensure that there is enough N present, even if corals end up choosing to not use any of that nitrate. So start slow and just be monitoring nitrate once in a while (need not be every day).

 

[civber]

Had the same situation for 2-3 years, and it had no effect on the corals. Right now, in my tank, both NO3 and PO4 are detectable.

 

[Atoll on me]

Had the same situation for 2-3 years, and it had no effect on the corals. Right now, in my tank, both NO3 and PO4 are detectable.

So what ever ended up happening after the 2-3 years? Did it resolve itself or what did you do?

 

[Atoll on me]

I just went through this, still going through this actually....

I dosed NeoNitro, NeoPhos, and MicroBacter7, with seemingly good results so far. Nitrates 20 phos .24.

I would up your dosing.

I do have MB7, but my concern is that it will lower phosphates in the process

 

[TX_REEF]

I removed my skimmer altogether, which solved the phosphate problem for me. I'm still working on nitrates, I've been dosing neonitro at twice the recommended amount a few times a week and now have detectible levels.

 

[civber]

So what ever ended up happening after the 2-3 years? Did it resolve itself or what did you do?

It solved itself. I measured it some days later, and it was detectable. It stayed that way for months.

 

[dayttu17]

Had the same situation for 2-3 years, and it had no effect on the corals. Right now, in my tank, both NO3 and PO4 are detectable.

So for 2-3 years you had undetectable levels, did nothing then slowly they were detectable and remained constant? Just want to make sure I understand. Don’t want to go chasing numbers if not necessary. Coral look happy at 0 & 0 on Hanna. 4 months in.

 

[Dr. D]

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but the right people seem to be here, and I'm confused about my own situation. Here's a summary:

• 100gDT, 33g sump
• ~10 week old tank
• Started with dry rock (15 lbs of TBS live rock coming next week; wish I'd started with that)
• Cycled successfully weeks ago with Dr. Tim's and Fritz Turbo, thanks to advice here
• Started with 3 clowns and 4 (now 2) Banggais after cycling
• Added two rounds of Dinkins pods and feed phyto every day
• Added 8 LPS corals a couple of weeks ago; they seem happy
• Added 4" Foxface, 2" Hippo tang, 7 (now 5) Chromis, goby & CUC ~ two weeks ago - fish seem happy
• Reefmat 500 running 24/7
• Ultra Reef skimmer running 24/7 (dry)
• Plank feeder; was feeding 3x/day/40 seconds, Avast Reef Jerky; after adding the new fish, switched to 8x/day/20 seconds because I thought it would be better for Chromis; now not sure what to do because I don't know if overfeeding is one of my problems
• Weekly 15% water changes

I had some diatoms before, but after adding everybody two weeks ago, diatoms are now deeper brown and everywhere. Hair algae is now budding all over the rocks. Neither freaks me out, since I assume this is just my ugly phase. I have ordered an algae scrubber because I think that's a neat idea.

My CUC included the usual mix of snails and hermit crabs. They were doing great at first, but most of my hermits and snails seem to have died, which surprises me because I thought there was plenty for them to eat. Here's recent testing, all from Hanna checkers:

3/6/2025​	3/16/2025​	3/21/2025​
Alkalinity	5.5​	16.9​	7.5​
Phosphate (ppm)	0.16​	0.14​	0​
Nitrate LR	>5​	>5​	>5​
Ammonia	0.08​	0​	0​
Calcium	496​	520​	NA​
Salinity	1.024​	1.025​	1.024​

I was surprised to see phosphates drop to zero, but I'm just learning this side of things. My Nitrate test is low range, so all I know is they're above 5.

I'm confused about whether I should lessen my skimming/filtration, whether sodium phosphate dosing is necessary, and whether anything else looks concerning to you. Thanks!

 

[BryanM]

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but the right people seem to be here, and I'm confused about my own situation. Here's a summary:

• 100gDT, 33g sump
• ~10 week old tank
• Started with dry rock (15 lbs of TBS live rock coming next week; wish I'd started with that)
• Cycled successfully weeks ago with Dr. Tim's and Fritz Turbo, thanks to advice here
• Started with 3 clowns and 4 (now 2) Banggais after cycling
• Added two rounds of Dinkins pods and feed phyto every day
• Added 8 LPS corals a couple of weeks ago; they seem happy
• Added 4" Foxface, 2" Hippo tang, 7 (now 5) Chromis, goby & CUC ~ two weeks ago - fish seem happy
• Reefmat 500 running 24/7
• Ultra Reef skimmer running 24/7 (dry)
• Plank feeder; was feeding 3x/day/40 seconds, Avast Reef Jerky; after adding the new fish, switched to 8x/day/20 seconds because I thought it would be better for Chromis; now not sure what to do because I don't know if overfeeding is one of my problems
• Weekly 15% water changes

I had some diatoms before, but after adding everybody two weeks ago, diatoms are now deeper brown and everywhere. Hair algae is now budding all over the rocks. Neither freaks me out, since I assume this is just my ugly phase. I have ordered an algae scrubber because I think that's a neat idea.

My CUC included the usual mix of snails and hermit crabs. They were doing great at first, but most of my hermits and snails seem to have died, which surprises me because I thought there was plenty for them to eat. Here's recent testing, all from Hanna checkers:

3/6/2025​	3/16/2025​	3/21/2025​
Alkalinity	5.5​	16.9​	7.5​
Phosphate (ppm)	0.16​	0.14​	0​
Nitrate LR	>5​	>5​	>5​
Ammonia	0.08​	0​	0​
Calcium	496​	520​	NA​
Salinity	1.024​	1.025​	1.024​

I was surprised to see phosphates drop to zero, but I'm just learning this side of things. My Nitrate test is low range, so all I know is they're above 5.

I'm confused about whether I should lessen my skimming/filtration, whether sodium phosphate dosing is necessary, and whether anything else looks concerning to you. Thanks!

The lack of phosphates might mean that you have dinos now, not diatoms.

You ALK numbers are all over the map. 5.5 is very low, and 16.9 is extremely high.

If they are dinos, especially if they go away at night, then UV works reasonably well as part of the method to remove them.

Vetteguy in this thread also documents things you need to do, and I'm following this advice myself right now: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-species-confirmation-ostreopsis.825940/page-2#post-13411463

 

[Dr. D]

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but the right people seem to be here, and I'm confused about my own situation. Here's a summary:

• 100gDT, 33g sump
• ~10 week old tank
• Started with dry rock (15 lbs of TBS live rock coming next week; wish I'd started with that)
• Cycled successfully weeks ago with Dr. Tim's and Fritz Turbo, thanks to advice here
• Started with 3 clowns and 4 (now 2) Banggais after cycling
• Added two rounds of Dinkins pods and feed phyto every day
• Added 8 LPS corals a couple of weeks ago; they seem happy
• Added 4" Foxface, 2" Hippo tang, 7 (now 5) Chromis, goby & CUC ~ two weeks ago - fish seem happy
• Reefmat 500 running 24/7
• Ultra Reef skimmer running 24/7 (dry)
• Plank feeder; was feeding 3x/day/40 seconds, Avast Reef Jerky; after adding the new fish, switched to 8x/day/20 seconds because I thought it would be better for Chromis; now not sure what to do because I don't know if overfeeding is one of my problems
• Weekly 15% water changes

I had some diatoms before, but after adding everybody two weeks ago, diatoms are now deeper brown and everywhere. Hair algae is now budding all over the rocks. Neither freaks me out, since I assume this is just my ugly phase. I have ordered an algae scrubber because I think that's a neat idea.

My CUC included the usual mix of snails and hermit crabs. They were doing great at first, but most of my hermits and snails seem to have died, which surprises me because I thought there was plenty for them to eat. Here's recent testing, all from Hanna checkers:

3/6/2025​	3/16/2025​	3/21/2025​
Alkalinity	5.5​	16.9​	7.5​
Phosphate (ppm)	0.16​	0.14​	0​
Nitrate LR	>5​	>5​	>5​
Ammonia	0.08​	0​	0​
Calcium	496​	520​	NA​
Salinity	1.024​	1.025​	1.024​

I was surprised to see phosphates drop to zero, but I'm just learning this side of things. My Nitrate test is low range, so all I know is they're above 5.

I'm confused about whether I should lessen my skimming/filtration, whether sodium phosphate dosing is necessary, and whether anything else looks concerning to you. Thanks!

The lack of phosphates might mean that you have dinos now, not diatoms.

You ALK numbers are all over the map. 5.5 is very low, and 16.9 is extremely high.

If they are dinos, especially if they go away at night, then UV works reasonably well as part of the method to remove them.

Vetteguy in this thread also documents things you need to do, and I'm following this advice myself right now: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-species-confirmation-ostreopsis.825940/page-2#post-13411463

Ohhhh. I’ll research Dinos and see if that seems to be the case.

 

[Dr. D]

Created my own updated thread here, so no need to respond to me on this thread.

 

[Marco_99]

I just went through this, still going through this actually....

I dosed NeoNitro, NeoPhos, and MicroBacter7, with seemingly good results so far. Nitrates 20 phos .24.

I would up your dosing.

Bryan were you running a daily max dose of microbacter7 along with this or just a maintenance dose