Confusing readings during cycle?

BRS

MrWhippy619

New Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Messages
22
Reaction score
4
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
UK
So Iv been cycling for about 1 week and I have some cured live rock and dry rock in the tank I’m using seachem stability and dr Tim’s ammonium chloride yesterday my ammonia was 2.0 nitrite and nitrate both 0 I added more ammonium today as I dosed a lot less than recommended and now all my readings are 0? Is this incorrect? I don’t understand how I’m now reading 0 ammonia after adding some earlier on?
 
Corals.com

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
48,834
Reaction score
110,809
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Wisconsin - Florida in several months
Could be correct but take a water sample to a trusted LFS and have them test the water for you and see what results they come up with. If you’re using api test kits, you may be getting false results
 

Azedenkae

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
2,083
Reaction score
1,967
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Chicago
So Iv been cycling for about 1 week and I have some cured live rock and dry rock in the tank I’m using seachem stability and dr Tim’s ammonium chloride yesterday my ammonia was 2.0 nitrite and nitrate both 0 I added more ammonium today as I dosed a lot less than recommended and now all my readings are 0? Is this incorrect? I don’t understand how I’m now reading 0 ammonia after adding some earlier on?
When did you measure the parameters after your second dosing of ammonium chloride? Did you check parameters prior to reading it? Also, if you could provide info on your tank size and how much you dosed each time would be great.
 

reefinatl

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
719
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
North GA
So Iv been cycling for about 1 week and I have some cured live rock and dry rock in the tank I’m using seachem stability and dr Tim’s ammonium chloride yesterday my ammonia was 2.0 nitrite and nitrate both 0 I added more ammonium today as I dosed a lot less than recommended and now all my readings are 0? Is this incorrect? I don’t understand how I’m now reading 0 ammonia after adding some earlier on?
You do not need to add ammonia to live rock seeded tank. You add rock, recheck your nitrite and nitrate. If nitrate is something and nitrite is zero You should be good to go. Ammonia tests are hard to read depending on brand but zero nitrite won't happen with ammonia present in a tank with nitrifying bacteria in most cases. Shouldn't have ammonia present ever if starting with cured rock only die off from fresh shipped rock. All zeros can happen if you have any macros on rock or running a refugium.
 

Azedenkae

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
2,083
Reaction score
1,967
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Chicago
You do not need to add ammonia to live rock seeded tank. You add rock, recheck your nitrite and nitrate. If nitrate is something and nitrite is zero You should be good to go. Ammonia tests are hard to read depending on brand but zero nitrite won't happen with ammonia present in a tank with nitrifying bacteria in most cases. Shouldn't have ammonia present ever if starting with cured rock only die off from fresh shipped rock.
You do need to add ammonia if you want to check how much ammonia your aquarium can handle. It's just that with instant cycled tank (such as with live rock), it would then be expected that whatever the target ammonia amount be to be consumed within a day. If not, then there is something off.

It really should not supposed to be necessary, but unfortunately there are cases in the hobby where due to various reasons live rock don't 'perform' as they should. For example if they somehow were dry for prolonged periods and just have a bunch of die-off. Or worse, some LFS are dodgy and will cheat by chucking dry rock in a tank and sell it as 'live rock'... which often tricks a lot of newbies. :(
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
20,560
Reaction score
16,922
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
tejas
look at this size of this thread where we never add ammonia to live rock





per that thread above, any normal decent degree of true live rock use skipped your whole cycle and we wouldnt verify, as cycling gentleman. a cycle does not undo from the pet store to your home, we show.
 
Last edited:

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
20,560
Reaction score
16,922
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
tejas
Last edited:

Garf

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
1,412
Reaction score
1,722
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
BEEFINGHAM
So Iv been cycling for about 1 week and I have some cured live rock and dry rock in the tank I’m using seachem stability and dr Tim’s ammonium chloride yesterday my ammonia was 2.0 nitrite and nitrate both 0 I added more ammonium today as I dosed a lot less than recommended and now all my readings are 0? Is this incorrect? I don’t understand how I’m now reading 0 ammonia after adding some earlier on?
Put a picture up of the tank if you can. If it’s really cured live rock (and it sounds like it), you’re ready to rock and roll.
 

reefinatl

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
719
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
North GA
You do need to add ammonia if you want to check how much ammonia your aquarium can handle. It's just that with instant cycled tank (such as with live rock), it would then be expected that whatever the target ammonia amount be to be consumed within a day. If not, then there is something off.

It really should not supposed to be necessary, but unfortunately there are cases in the hobby where due to various reasons live rock don't 'perform' as they should. For example if they somehow were dry for prolonged periods and just have a bunch of die-off. Or worse, some LFS are dodgy and will cheat by chucking dry rock in a tank and sell it as 'live rock'... which often tricks a lot of newbies. :(
OP specifically said cured liverock. Never a need to add ammonia to test capacity when liverock is present. It'll expand as necessary in a rapid manner. Just don't add a dozen fish with a pebble of liverock. Any sane stocking plan is fine.
Put a picture up of the tank if you can. If it’s really cured live rock (and it sounds like it), you’re ready to rock and roll.
Agreed, post a picture of the setup.
 
Avast

Azedenkae

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
2,083
Reaction score
1,967
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Chicago
OP specifically said cured liverock. Never a need to add ammonia to test capacity when liverock is present. It'll expand as necessary in a rapid manner. Just don't add a dozen fish with a pebble of liverock. Any sane stocking plan is fine.
What I am saying is op may believe it is cured live rock, but it does not necessarily mean that it is definitely the case just because op believes so. Plenty of threads here in R2R where someone said they have live rock - cured or any other description, and then turned out they got tricked. So yeah, you mentioned one does not need to add ammonia, I am saying there is a very valid reason to do so - and that's to test if the rocks are actually cured or not.
 

reefinatl

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
719
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
North GA
What I am saying is op may believe it is cured live rock, but it does not necessarily mean that it is definitely the case just because op believes so. Plenty of threads here in R2R where someone said they have live rock - cured or any other description, and then turned out they got tricked. So yeah, you mentioned one does not need to add ammonia, I am saying there is a very valid reason to do so - and that's to test if the rocks are actually cured or not.
I guess I've just been around this hobby to long. I can't imagine not seeing a difference between cured liverock and wet dry rock if you will. I get what you are saying though.
 

Azedenkae

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
2,083
Reaction score
1,967
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Chicago
I guess I've just been around this hobby to long. I can't imagine not seeing a difference between cured liverock and wet dry rock if you will. I get what you are saying though.
Mhm. Absolutely. I came from Australia where we don't really have this issue, so it was also a surprise to me too. I mean it's so easy to get live rock straight from the ocean that basically it's just two choices - live rock that's clearly live rock, or dry rock sitting on the shelves, since everyone basically wants either/or. So yeah I do fully understand to be honest why it seem like it should not be necessary to test or dose ammonia or any of that when one supposedly gets live rock, and I used to give that line of suggestions too... until I realize numerous times that 'oh, that live rock might as well be called dry rock'. >_<"

Shame eh.
 

reefinatl

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
719
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
North GA
Mhm. Absolutely. I came from Australia where we don't really have this issue, so it was also a surprise to me too. I mean it's so easy to get live rock straight from the ocean that basically it's just two choices - live rock that's clearly live rock, or dry rock sitting on the shelves, since everyone basically wants either/or. So yeah I do fully understand to be honest why it seem like it should not be necessary to test or dose ammonia or any of that when one supposedly gets live rock, and I used to give that line of suggestions too... until I realize numerous times that 'oh, that live rock might as well be called dry rock'. >_<"

Shame eh.
Yeah shame is right. I've been blown away by the changes in the hobby since getting back in after a 8 year break. Gotta say, a lot of it hasn't been for the better. I think the dry rock starts and insta-cure solutions have made a hard hobby harder in a lot of way. Anyways I guess we're done hijacking the thread.
 
OP
M

MrWhippy619

New Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Messages
22
Reaction score
4
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
UK
Live rock gives you an instant cycle. No surprise ammonia is processing, but in conjunction you should have measurable nitrite and/or nitrate. "All my readings are 0" doesnt make sense if you are including nitrite/nitrate.
Yeah all reading are at 0 which i dont understand
 
Maxout
OP
M

MrWhippy619

New Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Messages
22
Reaction score
4
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
UK
When did you measure the parameters after your second dosing of ammonium chloride? Did you check parameters prior to reading it? Also, if you could provide info on your tank size and how much you dosed each time would be great.
Paramters were 2ppm ammonia, 0 nitrate & nitrate i then dosed 13 drops of ammonium chloride and tested water 12 hours later and ammonia nitrite and nitrate were all reading 0. I have the fluval evo 13.5 the ammonium is recommended 1 drop per gallon but instructions say 4 drops per gallon but iv only added about 26 drops total 13 last week 13 this week
 
OP
M

MrWhippy619

New Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Messages
22
Reaction score
4
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
UK
Put a picture up of the tank if you can. If it’s really cured live rock (and it sounds like it), you’re ready to rock and roll.
ill post a pic when im home the guy at my lfs said it was cured but the rock is all white theres no coraline or anything but there is some little critters on it so im thinking it might not actually be cured
 

Azedenkae

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
2,083
Reaction score
1,967
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Chicago
Paramters were 2ppm ammonia, 0 nitrate & nitrate i then dosed 13 drops of ammonium chloride and tested water 12 hours later and ammonia nitrite and nitrate were all reading 0. I have the fluval evo 13.5 the ammonium is recommended 1 drop per gallon but instructions say 4 drops per gallon but iv only added about 26 drops total 13 last week 13 this week
I agree with @Cell, there seems to be testing issues somewhere. If you are following the instructions exactly, then there are something wrong with the test kits. There are a few reasons why we think this is the case:
1. Ammonia was read at 2ppm when you only dosed 13 drops. You should have only read 0.5ppm. Presuming there was no ammonia beforehand.
2. A sudden drop in ammonia like that is weird, especially if you added another 13 drops.
3. It could be possible that ammonia is consumed, so not ruling that out, but then we'd expect nitrite and/or nitrate.
4. The only possibility of 0s across the board is somehow ammonia is consumed very quickly, nitrite as well, and that you have a bunch of algae growth or something else that is consuming all the nitrate produced. Not impossible, especially with live rock, but just uncommon.
5. If you don't have anything that is taking up the nitrates, then yeah, at least one of the three readings is wrong.

Hm... can you post up a pic of your tank?
 
Reef Chasers Aquaculture
Industrial Test Systems, Inc.
Top