Copper treatment not working

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mujimran

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I noticed ich on my swallowtail angel around 2 weeks back and spread to my flame angel. I started copper treatment since (fish only tank. Moved all inverts). Ich still persists and flame angel is hiding in a corner and not eating. Looks like its going to die.

Shouldn’t the copper make it better by now? Should I add more copper? I am using the copper power blue bottle.
 
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Gtinnel

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I agree with above that it's important to make sure you keep the copper level at a therapeutic level for it to work, which is ecspecially hard if you have rock in the tank because it'll absorb some of the copper. Also, I'm not sure how easy it'll be to add the inverts back to the tank because the rock (I'm assuming there is rock in the tank) will leech copper back into the water.
 
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mujimran

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Are you sure it’s ich? Can you post pictures? What concentration is your copper level at? I use copper power at 2.5 ppm.
Should be ich as its white spots all over its body. Swallowtail is lot better now but flame angel was all covered. I read the copper should be 3.0 ppm. My API copper tester has 2.0 then 4.0 in its coloring levels.

Since I posted the flameangel is on floor hardly moving
 

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mujimran

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I agree with above that it's important to make sure you keep the copper level at a therapeutic level for it to work, which is ecspecially hard if you have rock in the tank because it'll absorb some of the copper. Also, I'm not sure how easy it'll be to add the inverts back to the tank because the rock (I'm assuming there is rock in the tank) will leech copper back into the water.
should I remove the rocks too? Maybe later I can add them back once the copper completely removes from the rock. I got cuprisorb for copper removal later
 
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nereefpat

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Ich can only stay attached to the fish for a week or less, so something is wrong here if there are spots for longer than a week.

It will be difficult to use copper with rock and sand, as those will both absorb the medication. If you keep testing for copper and adding, it should be possible. But I would test the copper level often, like a couple times a day at first until you get a feel for how much is being absorbed.

Any idea how many mLs of Copper Power you've added? If you are shooting for 2.0 ppm, that will take about 1.3 mLs per gallon.
 

brandon429

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There really is a big undercurrent in reefing that advises against quarantining, was wondering how they’d help here. I invited Lowell to post maybe there’s a time zone delay or something

mujimran you’re going to want corals and inverts to use here, it doesn’t seem your tank was intended to be fish only so I’ll start the vote that you don’t want to use copper on your reef rocks.

quarantine setups use washable plastic surface area setups or sponges so you can really apply and sustain the meds effectively and the display stays CU free.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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this can be his qt tank now, time to invest in a nice display setup for sure. Mujimran if you will read some of the stickies here it will show ideal setups for treatment and observation, plus future disease prevention as best the science knows how to attain it for the day

*stocking and adding mixed fish from the pet store brings in diseases beyond the treatment scope of copper, their postings of fallow preps seem worth a consideration.

You have really nice rocks there and you will likely want to start over here in some way, getting your plan from the stickies in this forum will change your reefing direction completely...it will increase your enjoyment as you re stock fish in future setups:

I don't keep marine fish, but I like to study patterns that increase fish retention/life rates in new/recently-cycled setups and the science in that forum is tops.

they like using treatments in dedicated quarantine setups because you can precisely control and sustain medication variables vs in the display setup where several factors bind/make unavailable or offset meds. these are details am picking up by reading there daily.
 
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dwest

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From the picture I am unable to determine if velvet or ich are at play.

But, if I was confident in ich or velvet, I would go to a local store and get a 20 gallon tank, sponge filter with air pump, another hang on back filter, and biospira. I would treat the new tank according to the copper power instructions. Then get a Hanna copper checker on order with an extra set of powder test kits.

I would do this outside of the main tank because getting copper out of the reef tank at a later time is going to be difficult even with cuprisorb. Plus maintaining copper levels with rock and sand will be very difficult.




 
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mujimran

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this can be his qt tank now, time to invest in a nice display setup for sure. Mujimran if you will read some of the stickies here it will show ideal setups for treatment and observation, plus future disease prevention as best the science knows how to attain it for the day

You have really nice rocks there and you will likely want to start over here in some way, getting your plan from the stickies in this forum will change your reefing direction completely...it will increase your enjoyment as you re stock fish in future setups:

I don't keep marine fish, but I like to study patterns that increase fish retention/life rates in new setups and the science in that forum is tops.

they like using treatments in dedicated quarantines because you can precisely control medication variables vs in the display setup where several factors bind/make unavailable or offset meds. these are details am picking up by reading there daily.
I had moved all my inverts to the 25G reef tank I have (per lfs guy suggestion). As the ich started from swallowtail and spread to flame angel I was worried it would spread to the remaining fishes too so started treatment directly on the DT. Didn’t know rock and sand absorb it too.

I will get another tank for QT, but is there a way to remove Cu from the rock and sand?
 
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mujimran

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From the picture I am unable to determine if velvet or ich are at play.

But, if I was confident in ich or velvet, I would go to a local store and get a 20 gallon tank, sponge filter with air pump, another hang on back filter, and biospira. I would treat the new tank according to the copper power instructions. Then get a Hanna copper checker on order with an extra set of powder test kits.

I would do this outside of the main tank because getting copper out of the reef tank at a later time is going to be difficult even with cuprisorb. Plus maintaining copper levels with rock and sand will be very difficult.




It has to be ich as I did notice both fish were clean of spots couple of times. Thought Cu trtmnt was working.

At this point should I remove all rock and sand and continue treatment in this tank as setting up a new QT tank will take time.

Both ways its llott of work.
 

dwest

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I would do as I proposed earlier. If have a fish store nearby you could be up and running in a couple hours. It’s your call though as only you know your situation. A few hours likely aren’t gonna matter but another day might for sure.

Good luck. You can remove copper later.

 
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