Cycle won't start (Dr Tims Method)

[LongWayHome]

Hello,

I'm new to reef keeping and have run into an issue. If I need to be more patient please let me know.

I'm building a nano 13.5g and started the cycle a week 1/2 ago. I'm using the Dr Tims method with the ammonium chloride and nitrifying bacteria in a bottle. However, my ammonia has been on 2ppm for the entire week and 1/2 with no nitrite or nitrate showing. I've done no water changes, I've used a bottle 1/2 of bacteria to no avail. I know patience is key with saltwater, but at a week 1/2, I figured I would have nitrites at least. This is a fishless cycle attempt. I have not dosed any additional ammonia into the tank.

I'm a bit stuck and my LFS was also confused as to what may be causing the bacteria to not consume the juicy ammonia. I would find it hard to believe that I would get two faulty bacteria bottles.

Short and sweet list of the setup if it helps:
Stock Fluval EVO 13.5g (carbon removed)
Heater (78 degrees).
Salinity 1.025
CaribSea sand (Arag-Alive)
Dry Rock
RODI (0ppm)
Using the API Saltwater Master Kit

 

[Fish Fan]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

When you say "1/2" do you mean "one half" or "1 to 2"?

If it's only been a week or even two, I would be patient a little longer. The whole process can take three or four weeks.

Good luck with your cycle!

 

[LongWayHome]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

When you say "1/2" do you mean "one half" or "1 to 2"?

If it's only been a week or even two, I would be patient a little longer. The whole process can take three or four weeks.

Good luck with your cycle!

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the confusion. For clarity, it's been 10 days as of today.

Hey if it's just how the cycle goes for saltwater then that's fine and good to hear. Truly was starting to think something was wrong at this point. Reading Dr Tims instructions, they made it sound like I was supposed to get nitrite by day 5 at least so it was a bit confusing.

 

[Fish Fan]

I like Dr. Tim's, but in my experience it's not that fast acting. I'd give it 12-14 before starting to get concerned. I think you'll nitrites in the next couple of days. I do hear that Fritz TurboStart works faster, but I still think you'll be fine soon.

 

[klvnnunez]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but since it was here, mind as well.

I am going through the same issue. I am almost on week 4 of the cycle with Dr Tim One and Only. My experience with the cycle has been subpar. The first time dosing one and only, following Tim's instructions, failed after day 8 due to extremely high ammonia. I performed a 50% water change to bring it down to about 4ppm. I basically had to start the process from scratch again. I purchased a second bottle of O&O and tossed it in the tank. A few days later, the parameters were as follow:

Salifert:
Ammonia 2
Nitrite .25
Nitrate 10
pH 8
Temp 82 F
Salinity 1.026

The ammonia at one point hit 0 with some nitrite still in the water (I'm not sure if letting the ammonia go down to 0, harmed the process). I added another 4ml of ammonia chloride from Tim to bring it back up to 2ppm.

Today, going almost on week 4. I am still battling ammonia and the tank seems to no be cycling. Today's parameters are as follow:

Salifert:
Ammonia .15
Nitrite .1
Nitrate 25
pH 8
Temp 82 F
Salinity 1.026

Since a few days ago, I added some more nitrifying bacteria in the hopes of bringing ammonia and nitrite to 0. No luck so far

For the past 2 weeks, these parameters has been stalled, meaning they haven't move at all. I'm in desperate need of help as I would like to completely cycle the tank. Any thoughts? Your help or input will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Reef.]

Hello,

I'm new to reef keeping and have run into an issue. If I need to be more patient please let me know.

I'm building a nano 13.5g and started the cycle a week 1/2 ago. I'm using the Dr Tims method with the ammonium chloride and nitrifying bacteria in a bottle. However, my ammonia has been on 2ppm for the entire week and 1/2 with no nitrite or nitrate showing. I've done no water changes, I've used a bottle 1/2 of bacteria to no avail. I know patience is key with saltwater, but at a week 1/2, I figured I would have nitrites at least. This is a fishless cycle attempt. I have not dosed any additional ammonia into the tank.

I'm a bit stuck and my LFS was also confused as to what may be causing the bacteria to not consume the juicy ammonia. I would find it hard to believe that I would get two faulty bacteria bottles.

Short and sweet list of the setup if it helps:
Stock Fluval EVO 13.5g (carbon removed)
Heater (78 degrees).
Salinity 1.025
CaribSea sand (Arag-Alive)
Dry Rock
RODI (0ppm)
Using the API Saltwater Master Kit

How much ammonia did you add? Exactly?

I agree with Fish Fan, I have used Fritz turbo start 900 twice now and find it excellent, just buy from a reliable place as it needs to be kept in the fridge. Fritz 9 is not so temp sensitive.

 

[twentyleagues]

The Dr Tims Calander of cycling is way off. I am not sure if the bacteria he sells perishes quickly or takes forever to wake up from "hibernation" but I have never had good luck using it.

You can switch to a different bacteria. This may help. Also you should/could add a little organic carbon in the form of fish food (flake) to help the bacteria "wake up" and start to process the ammonia (a carbon source is needed especially if a dry rock start).

There are people that say an ammonia source and 30days is all that needed to cycle a tank. I dont know how right or wrong this is in actuality. I have not seen this in my years of having fish tanks. Without proper inoculation of bacteria in some form or another either bottled product or previously coated substrate I have seen no movement of ammonia to nitrate.

The action I would take is get another bacteria source, add some crushed up flake food and pretend it is day 0 again. You only need a pinch of food. MB7, MB7 xlm start, Fritz products, Prodibio products are usually seen to produce the expected outcome. Stability, DR tim, and a couple I cannot remember currently I have had issues with myself.

 

[saltienewb]

I second the carbon addition. Throw a little flake or pellet food in as well. I used Dr. Tim’s and fish food for my ammonia/carbon and it worked like a dream

 

[klvnnunez]

The Dr Tims Calander of cycling is way off. I am not sure if the bacteria he sells perishes quickly or takes forever to wake up from "hibernation" but I have never had good luck using it.

You can switch to a different bacteria. This may help. Also you should/could add a little organic carbon in the form of fish food (flake) to help the bacteria "wake up" and start to process the ammonia (a carbon source is needed especially if a dry rock start).

There are people that say an ammonia source and 30days is all that needed to cycle a tank. I dont know how right or wrong this is in actuality. I have not seen this in my years of having fish tanks. Without proper inoculation of bacteria in some form or another either bottled product or previously coated substrate I have seen no movement of ammonia to nitrate.

The action I would take is get another bacteria source, add some crushed up flake food and pretend it is day 0 again. You only need a pinch of food. MB7, MB7 xlm start, Fritz products, Prodibio products are usually seen to produce the expected outcome. Stability, DR tim, and a couple I cannot remember currently I have had issues with myself.

Since Wednesday, I've been dosing 15ml of Microbe Lift Nite Out 2 since I can find it locally. I can also order a bottle of Fritz just in case. I will wait it out over the weekend and see if something happens after adding nite out 2. Ifby Monday, the tank has not progressed, I will buy a bottle of Fritz and start from 0. Now, my question is, should I do another water change before adding Fritz? I've been wasting salt galore with this process due to all the water changes.

 

[klvnnunez]

I second the carbon addition. Throw a little flake or pellet food in as well. I used Dr. Tim’s and fish food for my ammonia/carbon and it worked like a dream

So Dr Tim's ammonia chloride won't do the trick as far as adding a carbon source? Fish food is the way to go, is what you're saying?

 

[Llyod276]

I started a 14g cube and a 75g tank about a month apart(Sept 14g, Oct 75g)and for whatever reason then 75g cycled in 4 weeks and the 14 took 4months to cycle completely. I did the same method on both, dry rock with seeder rock from another tank. The seeders were small, im talking 4oz pieces and of those like 6 total. I went and bought bacteria from an lfs and the 14 finally finished its cycle last month, to where coraline started growing randomly. Coraline is the metric i use for fully cycled. I also used chromis for cycling. The bacteria was a last ditch effort, and it worked...

 

[klvnnunez]

I started a 14g cube and a 75g tank about a month apart(Sept 14g, Oct 75g)and for whatever reason then 75g cycled in 4 weeks and the 14 took 4months to cycle completely. I did the same method on both, dry rock with seeder rock from another tank. The seeders were small, im talking 4oz pieces and of those like 6 total. I went and bought bacteria from an lfs and the 14 finally finished its cycle last month, to where coraline started growing randomly. Coraline is the metric i use for fully cycled. I also used chromis for cycling. The bacteria was a last ditch effort, and it worked...

Wow, that's a long time. For me, is that I don't want to see an empty tank in my livingroom. I rather cycle it quickly so I can at least add some fish (have something to look at) while the tank matures for corals. In my previous tanks, I use the old shrimp trick to cycle it with no problem in a few months. Since biology has progreesed enough to know we can cycle a tank quickly, I'm opting for this route.

 

[twentyleagues]

So Dr Tim's ammonia chloride won't do the trick as far as adding a carbon source? Fish food is the way to go, is what you're saying?

Correct. Add some fish food. Not a ton just a pinch ground up.

 

[twentyleagues]

Since Wednesday, I've been dosing 15ml of Microbe Lift Nite Out 2 since I can find it locally. I can also order a bottle of Fritz just in case. I will wait it out over the weekend and see if something happens after adding nite out 2. Ifby Monday, the tank has not progressed, I will buy a bottle of Fritz and start from 0. Now, my question is, should I do another water change before adding Fritz? I've been wasting salt galore with this process due to all the water changes.

I would not do a water change let it cook.

 

[Fish Fan]

@klvnnunez I would suggest you start your own thread for this, the OP here may indeed need more help, and this may be confusing for them :)

But quickly, your cycle is likely just fine. How are you measuring your ammonia, are you using the API brand test kit? If so, that kit is well known to quite often report a very low level of ammonia, where there's really almost none.

You are recording nitrates, so your cycle is working. If you're using API brand test kits, your cycle is likely over.

Bring a sample of your water to a trusted Local Fish Store (LFS) that does not use API brand test kits, and have them test your water to confirm.

Cycling all dry hardscape can take weeks to a month for sure, but it should never take many months for the initial nitrogen cycle to complete.

Good luck!

 

[Fish Fan]

@scarruth003 How is your tank, has there been any change?

 

[klvnnunez]

@klvnnunez I would suggest you start your own thread for this, the OP here may indeed need more help, and this may be confusing for them :)

But quickly, your cycle is likely just fine. How are you measuring your ammonia, are you using the API brand test kit? If so, that kit is well known to quite often report a very low level of ammonia, where there's really almost none.

You are recording nitrates, so your cycle is working. If you're using API brand test kits, your cycle is likely over.

Bring a sample of your water to a trusted Local Fish Store (LFS) that does not use API brand test kits, and have them test your water to confirm.

Cycling all dry hardscape can take weeks to a month for sure, but it should never take many months for the initial nitrogen cycle to complete.

Good luck!

Sounds good. I will wait it out and see what happens. If nothing changes, I will get Fritz. I will start a new thread going forward. I will paste the link to it here for you guys to chime there so I don't keep hijacking @

scarruth003 thread.​

Sorry homie. Wishing the best of luck on you journey and welcome to reefing ✌

 

[klvnnunez]

my own thread with more details

Cycle won't complete with the Dr. Tim's Method

I am almost on week 4 of the cycle with Dr Tim One and Only and Ammonia Chloride. My experience with the cycle has been subpar. The first time dosing one and only (almost 4 weeks ago), following Tim's instructions, the cycle failed after day 8 due to extremely high ammonia. I had to perform an...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[saltienewb]

So Dr Tim's ammonia chloride won't do the trick as far as adding a carbon source? Fish food is the way to go, is what you're saying?

I think it will work eventually, but anecdotal experience tells me that the bacteria builds better with some type of organic material vs just ammonia chloride.
There a reason old school types used to throw a full dead shrimp in to start the cycle.
Mind you not enough to foul the water but a small pinch will help imo

 

[klvnnunez]

I think it will work eventually, but anecdotal experience tells me that the bacteria builds better with some type of organic material vs just ammonia chloride.
There a reason old school types used to throw a full dead shrimp in to start the cycle.
Mind you not enough to foul the water but a small pinch will help imo

That's the way I used to do it.