Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[HomeSlizzice]

Agree on balance.

Procentrum is highly toxic to critters, for example a naupli (brine shrimp) will die having consumed just one cell. So when you have billions there isn't much hope of anything out competing.

I'm not necessarily sold on the out competing method personally however it's obviously desirable to have a varied number of mini beasts in the tank.

Agreed. Prorocentrum is nasty, hence the aggressive all out approach. Doing so reduced it’s numbers so much that IMHO it created enough space for balance to be achieved.

 

[Beardo]

It's a 40 gallon breeder. I'll look at those. Thank you. I ordered a uv sterilizer yesterday as well, not sure it will help, but it can't hurt.

Prorocentrum was one of the species I dealt with that UV was effective at eliminating. I also blew off everything with a powerhead/turkey baster twice a day; at night after lights out and early morning (5:00 am since I'm always up early) to help get them in the water column. Did this for a week straight and no signs of them after.
Be sure to keep running activated carbon to deal with the toxins.
Good luck.

 

[kecked]

Here are my two tanks. The first is my little 29gal. The second is my DT. The last pic is the outlet from my sump. Is that Dino or cyano? It’s red under blue lights. The rest of the Dino’s don’t do that. On fence to clean that off or clean it off and dump into tank. Is my uv in correctly? That’s the black tube on top.

 

[tenurepro]

Hi All, I just wanted to briefly check in with an update. I was running GFO and my phosphates were near zero throughout most of the tank's life. I also was quick to use stuff in bottles to help me reef; chemiclean, vibrant, nopox, aminos, coral colours... yes i experimented with many magic potions.
I got a bad outbreak of prorocentrum last September (2017). I thought it was cyano for a couple of weeks, but the good folks on this thread helped me ID the beasts.
I added a UV sterilizer, upped the nutrients by dosing KNO3 and seachem flourish phosphorus, and started removing my sand bed. Tank looked pretty ugly in October, i considered shutting it down.
but things gradually improved. by January, you can see tiny patches of brown here and there in the sand.
I just did a little video of my tank - i think you would be hard pressed to spot any dinos - i certainly couldn't - my sand bed is clear.
One totally unexpected surprise; while my tank has ranged between 5 to 20 ppm Nitrates and 0.2 to 0.4 Phosphates over the past 5 month, my sps are looking great, and i don't have any outbreaks of GHA or nuisance algae... a nice side effect of the nutrient balancing i think!

Here is what the tank looks like now


thanks for reading and keep up with the battle

 

[bh750]

Hi. Helping a friend ID what looks to be Dino's in his tank. Brown snotty growth coming off coral with bubbles. I took a sample but took too long to get it under my scope, so there's no more movement.

Any way to ID from these pics?

First pic is 400x

These two pics are at 1000x

Any thoughts?

 

[taricha]

Is that Dino or cyano?

I'd bet on "And" not "or". Siphon and remove.

Here is what the tank looks like now

Y'all are just the best. awesome!

ID what looks to be Dino's in his tank. Brown snotty growth coming off coral with bubbles. I took a sample but took too long to get it under my scope, so there's no more movement.

Any way to ID from these pics?

You didn't kill em. These are what we are pretty confident are #chrysophytes and they always appear motionless.

check this thread for them

 

[RockyProndoa]

Posted a few days ago with some pretty bad pics, posting again with some mildly better ones. Looking to confirm ID?

 

[RockyProndoa]

Posted a few days ago with some pretty bad pics, posting again with some mildly better ones. Looking to confirm ID?

And tank pics..

 

[TRNANCE]

I have been battling Dino for about 8 months which appear to be Large Cell Amphidinium (per @taricha). I started reading this thread the first part of March 2018, on 03-18-18 I started dosing Seachem Flourish Phosphorus to get my P04 up to 0.10 as suggested by @mcarroll and @reeferfoxx, my N03 was already at 5 as I feed heavy, @tarcha suggested putting some chaeto in the main display which I did. I am happy to say that I am winning the battle with Dino, I now only have a dusting here and there on the sand, it is no longer building up on the coral or rocks and I am snot free at this time I do however have a bit of maroon cyano that is growing on top of the Dino, I have not messed with it as it is my understanding that it is a good thing at this point.
I am not completely done with this battle but it is looking up for sure so I wanted to say thanks to all that have contributed to this thread and answered questions for me, I also wanted to point out that my corals are so much happier with the higher nutrients.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Hi All, I just wanted to briefly check in with an update. I was running GFO and my phosphates were near zero throughout most of the tank's life. I also was quick to use stuff in bottles to help me reef; chemiclean, vibrant, nopox, aminos, coral colours... yes i experimented with many magic potions.
I got a bad outbreak of prorocentrum last September (2017). I thought it was cyano for a couple of weeks, but the good folks on this thread helped me ID the beasts.
I added a UV sterilizer, upped the nutrients by dosing KNO3 and seachem flourish phosphorus, and started removing my sand bed. Tank looked pretty ugly in October, i considered shutting it down.
but things gradually improved. by January, you can see tiny patches of brown here and there in the sand.
I just did a little video of my tank - i think you would be hard pressed to spot any dinos - i certainly couldn't - my sand bed is clear.
One totally unexpected surprise; while my tank has ranged between 5 to 20 ppm Nitrates and 0.2 to 0.4 Phosphates over the past 5 month, my sps are looking great, and i don't have any outbreaks of GHA or nuisance algae... a nice side effect of the nutrient balancing i think!

Here is what the tank looks like now


thanks for reading and keep up with the battle

;Woot Tank is looking amazing! Congrats!

 

[reeferfoxx]

I have been battling Dino for about 8 months which appear to be Large Cell Amphidinium (per @taricha). I started reading this thread the first part of March 2018, on 03-18-18 I started dosing Seachem Flourish Phosphorus to get my P04 up to 0.10 as suggested by @mcarroll and @reeferfoxx, my N03 was already at 5 as I feed heavy, @tarcha suggested putting some chaeto in the main display which I did. I am happy to say that I am winning the battle with Dino, I now only have a dusting here and there on the sand, it is no longer building up on the coral or rocks and I am snot free at this time I do however have a bit of maroon cyano that is growing on top of the Dino, I have not messed with it as it is my understanding that it is a good thing at this point.
I am not completely done with this battle but it is looking up for sure so I wanted to say thanks to all that have contributed to this thread and answered questions for me, I also wanted to point out that my corals are so much happier with the higher nutrients.

Sounds like the tank is moving in the right direction. Cyano is always a good sign. For now anyway
If you haven't already, I think it's time to really pump up the biodiversity. Increase different types of bacteria as well has micro fauna and probiotics. Garf grunge, fiji mud, copepods, amphipods, worms, and just about anything and everything you can think of.

For the cyano I would monitor it. Let it grow out then focus on removal. It's always better to have something else competing but i've found that even cyano can drive nutrients low again. Keep us updated!

 

[bh750]

Sounds like the tank is moving in the right direction. Cyano is always a good sign. For now anyway
If you haven't already, I think it's time to really pump up the biodiversity. Increase different types of bacteria as well has micro fauna and probiotics. Garf grunge, fiji mud, copepods, amphipods, worms, and just about anything and everything you can think of.

For the cyano I would monitor it. Let it grow out then focus on removal. It's always better to have something else competing but i've found that even cyano can drive nutrients low again. Keep us updated!

+1 reeferfox.

Sounds like the situation I've been in for quite some time. The brown dusting on
My sand turned out to be large celled Amphidinium which is less harmful to the tank but hard to get rid of IMO. Been battling cyano for months now it seems. Slowly it's decreasing. So just started doing what reeferfox outlined. I've had lots of pods and macro in my fuge and display. This week added Fiji Mud and Garf Grunge just last night. Added more life to my sandbed (worms, mini stars, and snails).

Good luck!?

 

[RockyProndoa]

Posted a few days ago with some pretty bad pics, posting again with some mildly better ones. Looking to confirm ID?

Anyone able to confirm ID on this?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Anyone able to confirm ID on this?

Difficult to say. Looks like Ostriopsis to me. Ostriopsis has a common identifier that looks like a white tip or like snow on the peaks of mountains.

 

[RockyProndoa]

Difficult to say. Looks like Ostriopsis to me. Ostriopsis has a common identifier that looks like a white tip or like snow on the peaks of mountains.

Interesting - thank you for the tip. Clearly I bought the wrong $12 microscope because mine at 400x do not look nearly that good. Regardless, attached a few zoomed in off my phone - perhaps better?

Regardless of species, from what I gather, treatment seems to be the same? Raise Nitrate and P, add microfauna, limit water changes, physical removal correct?

I am considering a Pentair Smart UV 40w for this tank to help? If confirmed osteo would this help? Or a waste of $400?

What are the long term effects of running the UV with regard to planktonic life? I ask because I noticed the exposure time of that particular model is 180,000m.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Beardo]

Interesting - thank you for the tip. Clearly I bought the wrong $12 microscope because mine at 400x do not look nearly that good. Regardless, attached a few zoomed in off my phone - perhaps better?

Regardless of species, from what I gather, treatment seems to be the same? Raise Nitrate and P, add microfauna, limit water changes, physical removal correct?

I am considering a Pentair Smart UV 40w for this tank to help? If confirmed osteo would this help? Or a waste of $400?

What are the long term effects of running the UV with regard to planktonic life? I ask because I noticed the exposure time of that particular model is 180,000m.

Thanks for the help.

Those are Ostreopsis.
UV seems to be really effective against those. Sizing wise I shoot for about 0.5 watts per gallon. This is mostly based on my personal experience and following others who have had success. I ran a 57 watt AquaUV on a 270g tank without success (I ran in sump though so I'm sure that impacted the effectiveness). Once I upgraded to a 114 watt unit, I had great success.
I run a UV, plumbed into my return, full time and have seen no adverse effects from doing so.

 

[RockyProndoa]

Those are Ostreopsis.
UV seems to be really effective against those. Sizing wise I shoot for about 0.5 watts per gallon. This is mostly based on my personal experience and following others who have had success. I ran a 57 watt AquaUV on a 270g tank without success (I ran in sump though so I'm sure that impacted the effectiveness). Once I upgraded to a 114 watt unit, I had great success.
I run a UV, plumbed into my return, full time and have seen no adverse effects from doing so.

That's an interesting point that you mention that as AquaUV was the other manufacturer I was considering. There biggest difference from what I can tell, and as you have alluded to above, is the exposure time and/or wattage required. Your experience seems to correlate with the information that they have listed on their site as far as sizing and exposure time. Flow rates are much slower through the Pentair units; I think that is the route I will go.

I notice there is talk of plumbing these in tank vs in the sump? Scratching my head a bit as to why this matters? My only guess is that the Dino's are somehow managing to stay in the tank water column and not enter the overflow into the sump where the UV can be effective?

Thanks for the input.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I notice there is talk of plumbing these in tank vs in the sump? Scratching my head a bit as to why this matters? My only guess is that the Dino's are somehow managing to stay in the tank water column and not enter the overflow into the sump where the UV can be effective?

It's dependent on how the tank is setup. However, having it after the overflow or after the filter sock section is fine too. Having it plumbed through the return would make it slightly less effective.

 

[RockyProndoa]

It's dependent on how the tank is setup. However, having it after the overflow or after the filter sock section is fine too. Having it plumbed through the return would make it slightly less effective.

I run a 135g display, c2c overflow with Herbie drain into a 100g Rubbermaid sump. Elevated skimmer, rest is live rock and rubble. Return pump sits on floor of sump. My plan was to NOT plumb it into the return and use a dedicated pump that would draw water from the sump and return it towards the intake of the return pump. Reasonable?

 

[mcarroll]

@RockyProndoa consider sizing a bit above the .5 watt per gallon recommendation if you install that way.

Most folks do a temporary install on the display, btw, so it wont be there forever.