Javamahn
Active Member
Unaffected by copper I plan on soaking all the equipment and bleach first then vinegar then rodi I will probably let the water heat up in the furnace I call my backyard
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Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
- Thread starter mcarroll
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Unaffected by copper I plan on soaking all the equipment and bleach first then vinegar then rodi I will probably let the water heat up in the furnace I call my backyard
Ew....keep us in the loop.
On that note, anyone ever order from Indo-Pacific Sea Farms out of Hawaii? (http://ipsf.com)
Among other interesting things, they carry this:
IPSF TANK BOOSTERS
Coralline Algea Booster[emoji769]
Liquid N-Reducer[emoji769]
SurfZone Sand Activator[emoji769]
IPSF WonderMud[emoji769]
Reef Amphipods
Of coarse Jerry Heslinga for sure he is the real deal. I have known and bought stuff from Jerry for years. He developed the whole Giant clam culture system.
http://macnaconference.org/2017/speakers/gerald-heslinga/
This stuff is by product of clam culture.
Well my experiment with micron filter worked well. The amount of dinos is really close to none. A few more days of this and I think I’ll have that tank under control. Adding a little uv to it and all should be well. This is in addition to the raised p and n and increased diversity. The filter just helps move the balance.
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mcarroll
10K Club member
Limiting their carbon intake will do it...I believe that's nature's way. (One of them, at least.)
Gotta turn them back to autotrophy and epiphytism.
Replete nutrients (N+P) help. Unfortunately blooms in aquariums literally create their own eco-momentum as they ramp up and total dino cell numbers grow larger and larger.
So tools like UV and diatom filtation that remove/kill cells help a lot since they will reduce the amount of inorganic carbon being deposited on an ongoing basis by the bloom.
Replete nutrients and live cell-reduction both cut into that momentum directly.
Dino's bloom like nuts when they starve as autotrophs and then start eating (heterotrophy) all the wonderful microbes available to them in our reefs. Dang mixotrophs.
Some really good stuff here if you haven't already read it:
The role of nutrients in decomposition of a thecate dinoflagellate
I wonder if heat would do it. Cook the rock/sand in a grill for an hour or two. Probably crack it to pieces.
Problem is you can sterilize all you want but the second you add fish or coral it’s likely to come with them.
I think dinos are in every tank. Proper balance and nutrients is the cure. My tank is turning the corner. Adding some live rock really helped. I think our hobby is like friendship bread....
Problem is you can sterilize all you want but the second you add fish or coral it’s likely to come with them.
I think dinos are in every tank. Proper balance and nutrients is the cure. My tank is turning the corner. Adding some live rock really helped. I think our hobby is like friendship bread....
I think the danger with cooking is the palytoxin contained within the cells.
There have been reports of suspected palytoxin poisoning.
Its not the rock though, the usual method of introduction is via infected livestock.
Probably find there are lots of strains in the standard aquarium with only a small select number causing problems.
I do not think you can keep dinos out. You just have to keep the conditions they do not prefer. I believe they leave spores and cyst behind. This is why blackout do not work..
I had some live rock I threw in a bucket with a heater and a pump complete darkness for almost a year and the minute this stuff hit light the algae grew back that was one the rock so I think allot of algae can do this.
One other thing after reading some of this stuff is I do not believe everyone who measures under dinos and reads low phosphate and nitrates actually does. I think dinos grow so fast sometime it makes it look like you have low phosphate and nutrients. So adding more sometimes does not work and sometime gives more fuel to the fire. Maybe it is one way dinos can compete against other algae too even though I think it prefers low nutrients because it can out compete other algae but I also think if to much phosphate and nitrate it can survive with other algae. Basically it is a balancing act getting the phosphates/nitrates high enough to support green algae and not enough to support both.
I had some live rock I threw in a bucket with a heater and a pump complete darkness for almost a year and the minute this stuff hit light the algae grew back that was one the rock so I think allot of algae can do this.
One other thing after reading some of this stuff is I do not believe everyone who measures under dinos and reads low phosphate and nitrates actually does. I think dinos grow so fast sometime it makes it look like you have low phosphate and nutrients. So adding more sometimes does not work and sometime gives more fuel to the fire. Maybe it is one way dinos can compete against other algae too even though I think it prefers low nutrients because it can out compete other algae but I also think if to much phosphate and nitrate it can survive with other algae. Basically it is a balancing act getting the phosphates/nitrates high enough to support green algae and not enough to support both.
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mcarroll
10K Club member
That's the article that explains where those seemingly huge doses of N and P go at the beginning of some dino treatments.
In a nutshell...
The lion's share goes to the bacteria breaking down the detritus of the dino bloom.
The reason is that bacteria are the most efficient at N and P uptake.
(Also, apparently dino's are fairly terrible at it)
Bacteria can use N and P down to the lowest available levels – below levels where other organisms from corals on down to microbes are already starving or dead.
Without enough N and P dosing to surpass this bacterial demand, the dino bloom will remain in starvation mode due to the ultra-low dissolved nutrient levels being maintained by that bacteria....and be perfectly happy.
Toxic and murdurous to everything in the tank (even us)....but happy.
Their detritus (thx to those bacteria) will continue to fuel the conditions supportive of their toxic/heterotrophic bloom until there's some other limit....
But so far it doesn't seem like our tanks naturally provide any of the right limits before a dino bloom (including its toxins) wipes out the tank's inhabitants.
In nature these guys ordinarily come and go with the seasonal swings in nutrients, which are related to blooms of other microbes as well as water exchange rates, temperature swings, etc. We emulate almost none of these swings/cues in our tanks. (For pretty good reason in most/all cases.)
So undoubtedly dosing N and P spurs lots of things to grow including dino's and other families of algae. Good!
That's the idea of the "treatment", really...make everything grow....that's the idea of the whole tank after all, right?
The offensive dino's will eventually die out (with some assistance from us) under our amended conditions.
And since conditions have been so-amended, subsequent generations should be autotrophically inclined.
Autotrophic dino's would love nothing more than to hang out totally unseen (e.g.) in your chaetomorpha as an epiphyte...
...feeding on the chaeto's exudates and the tank's dissolved nutrients (and whatever else) just like a plant.
They'd love it until a nematode came along and ate em!
Time that transaction by 1 million or so and that's how your dino tank eventually becomes a normal stable tank.
It really does work. My tank is 80% better. Didn’t have to blow the rocks off today in either tank.
Seems the micron filter is very effective. The same as my uv actually. P and N are holding stable too. So nothings eating it.
Seems the micron filter is very effective. The same as my uv actually. P and N are holding stable too. So nothings eating it.
Kimberely
Well-Known Member
It's been 9 days since my last water change, I've replaced the sand bed, started dosing Red Sea Bacto Start and Nitro Bac in the morning, running UV and dosing dino x after lights out, and dosed Seachem Phosphorus. Nitrates are up to 20ppm, my phosphate test still tests 00ppm. I started dosing and UV Sunday and already there's a huge improvement. Still looks bad, but I'm feeling hopeful.
stop the dino x its not the way. Follow this thread and it works but it does take a few months to get it right. It is however very worth it. Up the P until it is stable at 0.2ppm the N is a slight bit high but will drop when you dose the P. Add the P slow and build it up over the course of time. It does get consumed fast in the dino tank so it will seem like your adding a lot and then it will shoot up so keep an eye on it. Once up just add enough to hold it. It is important to hold it. N should be 5-10ppm.
Add UV
Add lots of carbon especially for your kind of dino.
Last I tried adding the bacteria. It just feeds the dinos.
Add UV
Add lots of carbon especially for your kind of dino.
Last I tried adding the bacteria. It just feeds the dinos.
Hey everybody im thinking i got some dinos. The clean up crew does not seem to be bothered by it. I know the best way of identification is by scope but before i go run out and buy one i wanted to run these pictures by everyone. Thanks in advance.
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