Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[reeferfoxx]

Cool, nice successful story, my first dino attack was similar to yours now.

I think I'm gonna turn off/on my refugium lights for a few days to see if that helps, maybe I have inorganic phosphates and nitrates but no organic and that's why my dinos are still kicking around.

I'll try to do the same I did last time I fought with dinos, on my list are live sand bed from another tank.

Well, it's the inorganic nutrients we can test for. Organic would be food before it breaks down. So, if you feel you have sufficient bioload (ie fish) you've covered nitrates. The other would be phosphates like particulate coral foods or allowing frozen and pellet foods to decompose. Understanding that, you'll also need to know that high po4 can drive nitrates low and high nitrates can drive po4 low. Keepin that in mind and you should know when and what to feed.

 

[Deezill]

@reeferfoxx I have my UV running been running for a week when my Hydra 52's are off. I am running carbon and my leather mushroom and my euphyllias seem to be opening up again. I am going to add some pods but i want a vendor other than Algae Barn. My question to you @reeferfoxx what would you buy from Indio Pacific farms considering I am fighting the Coolia strain dinos? I am not sure what to buy lol? I do need to add some bio diversity. I am looking for a pod vendor other than Algae barn. I know they have great customer service but I don't want to pay 50 or 60 bucks for water. Not trying to take anything away from them because their customer service is great but people selling ocean side property in the Sahara Desert have great customer service too lol. And I would like to thank you @reeferfoxx for all of your help because I can see the dinos receding. They are not as dark. My rocks are beginnig to look better. But I want to continue to use a multi prong attack. Thanks.

 

[reeferfoxx]

@reeferfoxx I have my UV running been running for a week when my Hydra 52's are off. I am running carbon and my leather mushroom and my euphyllias seem to be opening up again. I am going to add some pods but i want a vendor other than Algae Barn. My question to you @reeferfoxx what would you buy from Indio Pacific farms considering I am fighting the Coolia strain dinos? I am not sure what to buy lol? I do need to add some bio diversity. I am looking for a pod vendor other than Algae barn. I know they have great customer service but I don't want to pay 50 or 60 bucks for water. Not trying to take anything away from them because their customer service is great but people selling ocean side property in the Sahara Desert have great customer service too lol. And I would like to thank you @reeferfoxx for all of your help because I can see the dinos receding. They are not as dark. My rocks are beginnig to look better. But I want to continue to use a multi prong attack. Thanks.

This link here come with everything.

http://www.ipsf.com/livesand.html

They will ship you sand and mud packed with spaghetti worms, bristleworms, copepods, amphipods, isopods, and maybe some micro brittle stars. Honestly, I wouldn't care what they send you. You want it all.

 

[fishbox]

@reeferfoxx I have my UV running been running for a week when my Hydra 52's are off. I am running carbon and my leather mushroom and my euphyllias seem to be opening up again. I am going to add some pods but i want a vendor other than Algae Barn. My question to you @reeferfoxx what would you buy from Indio Pacific farms considering I am fighting the Coolia strain dinos? I am not sure what to buy lol? I do need to add some bio diversity. I am looking for a pod vendor other than Algae barn. I know they have great customer service but I don't want to pay 50 or 60 bucks for water. Not trying to take anything away from them because their customer service is great but people selling ocean side property in the Sahara Desert have great customer service too lol. And I would like to thank you @reeferfoxx for all of your help because I can see the dinos receding. They are not as dark. My rocks are beginnig to look better. But I want to continue to use a multi prong attack. Thanks.

I'm in the same boat fighting coolia. Been running uv for about a week and the rocks look much better. Also seeing some improvement in some of the coral. Sand still looks like crap tho. How about your sand ? I'm gonna start dosing N&P next week to get that back in order before I add biodiversity. I'm probably gonna try they Indo Pacific mud and sand activator because there's much more than just pods in it

 

[reeferfoxx]

@Deezill And I agree about algaebarn. My last shipment of pods looked like just water. I've purchased before and could clearly see pods but lately, not so much.

 

[markstubb]

I felt the same way about Algaebarn. I do wonder if their popularity requires them to ship pods at a much younger stage, or they're just having problems producing enough to meet demand. I also struggled to understand how it is that they verify how many pods make it into a bag... a micro-fine sieve I guess?

 

[kecked]

I'll post some pictures but I still see a very light dusting here and there. Are you saying I can stop the UV now? Something drives my P into the ground now. The tank looks really good. Should I ramp up light again. Only running 50% of full on (two half radions on a 65gal tank) Maybe 50% is plenty...
Anyway looking good but since I have the small dust patches hould I stay the UV course or remove it. COOLIA here too. The micron filter in the 29 is holding it back but not curing so I can move the cough cough 55W jebco over to it. Bet it cures that tank in 24 hours.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I'll post some pictures but I still see a very light dusting here and there. Are you saying I can stop the UV now? Something drives my P into the ground now. The tank looks really good. Should I ramp up light again. Only running 50% of full on (two half radions on a 65gal tank) Maybe 50% is plenty...
Anyway looking good but since I have the small dust patches hould I stay the UV course or remove it. COOLIA here too. The micron filter in the 29 is holding it back but not curing so I can move the cough cough 55W jebco over to it. Bet it cures that tank in 24 hours.

If you are still seeing dusting, keep UV online. Personally, any light adjustment or any adjustments to the tank other than a nutrient adjustment shouldn't have happened.

I would get the tank and the lighting to idle parameters and just keep it there. Constant changes and adjustments will set you back.

How are nutrients doing? Do you have enough fish to cover a nitrate increase? Are you keeping up with regular water changes?

 

[shred5]

Well I jinxed myself...
I got dino's.
I had posted a while back that I had not had them in like 20 years except once with dead rock that was leaching phosphate, I removed the dead rock and replaced with live rock and they disappeared.

Well I do not know the exact time line with this new tank because I have had too much to do and have not done much with it, not much time basically.

I set it up a maybe the end of January. I let it sit with just saltwater and rock for months and just added several different bacteria brands to it and, some food and carbon source during this time. No light during this period and I was in no rush. I turned the light on for a month maybe more and then added a few fish and a little later some coral frags. After maybe a month the corals looked very light so I tested the water and there was no tint at all to the test kits for phosphate and nitrate. Not surprising since the tank sat so long with just bacteria and then latter a few fish. I started adding phosphate and nitrate to the water and as I did dinos started popping up. As I increased the dosage they got worse. I stopped dosing for a bit because I went on vacation and they slowed their growth. I added some live rock, started dosing some Dr Tims bacteria and copepods etc to the tank. Dino's are still there but here is the kicker the live rock has none while the dead rock does. The live rock has been in there at least a month too... This dead rock is not releasing phosphates either so that is not like the issue before..

I still think this has to do something with dead rock and why there are so many issues with dinos in the hobby. Only issues have been with tanks with dead rock for me.

I am not concerned because I have only a few frags and I can move them to my other tanks plus I have had not much time for the tank.

It just weird it popped up as I added nutrients, it is also weird that live rock has zero dinos on it and just the dead rock does.
I think the real issue is I can not get nutrients up because the dinos just grow faster and consume it. I can not grow coral with zero nutrients.

My plan is move the corals to a different tank. I will go to reduce photo-period to slow dinos so I can increase nutrients. I will add a fuge with algae once I get the nutrients up, this has always worked before. If this fails it is all live rock.

 

[reeferfoxx]

It just weird it popped up as I added nutrients, it is also weird that live rock has zero dinos on it and just the dead rock does.
I think the real issue is I can not get nutrients up because the dinos just grow faster and consume it. I can not grow coral with zero nutrients.

This isn't weird at all, actually. It's common for Dino's to thrive with a food source. What's great though is you are also feeding bacteria and micro fauna that will later outcompete. Keep with the nutrients and wothin weeks you should see a decline. Once that decline begins, start adding more fish and then coral. You'll see postive shifts but only with time. Good luck!

 

[shred5]

This isn't weird at all, actually. It's common for Dino's to thrive with a food source. What's great though is you are also feeding bacteria and micro fauna that will later outcompete. Keep with the nutrients and wothin weeks you should see a decline. Once that decline begins, start adding more fish and then coral. You'll see postive shifts but only with time. Good luck!

I meant that the theory is dino's survive in lower nutrients and they did not rear their ugly head till I upped the nutrients.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I meant that the theory is dino's survive in lower nutrients and they did not rear their ugly head till I upped the nutrients.

The underlying competition between dinos, nutrients, and microbial communities isn't a theory, it's true within scientific research. Though science can change right? What's happening is the nutrient reduction is slowing bacteria growth as well as micro fauna growth. The shift in dominant uptake is with the Dino's. When you add a buffet of nutrients and Dino's show their dominance, we know that they are winning. They jump in and soak up what's left. However, if you keep that buffet going, the rest of the community can partake.

 

[mcarroll]

I meant that the theory is dino's survive in lower nutrients and they did not rear their ugly head till I upped the nutrients.

Dino's are anything but simple. If you know the kind you're dealing with they can be predictable...but I'm not sure it gets any better than that. Ostreopsis is one type we know that doesn't fit the low-PO4-spike cause all that well....still fits, just not all that well. It's complicated.

Dead rock has multiple problems as far as I can tell...all pretty much related. At least these...

A) it's a virtually unprotected and unlimited source of PO4 for organisms that can get to it
B) it's a peculiarly successful home for bacteria and algae settlers that would ordinarily be more limited to nutrients available in the water
C) one aspect of this peculiar home for settlers is that there's nothing else there to eat them, compete for space with them, etc. it's just wide open, po4-laden spaces​

If the rock happened to be "clean" of PO4 somehow, BTW, it would suck all the PO4 out of your water and be the cause of different bad range of side-effects, probably promoting a different specie of dino vs what you have. (The opposite, leaching PO4, can happen, but it isn't the problem.)

"clean" is such an abused concept.

 

[kecked]

I have not done a water change in 6 months at all. Been dosing Nitrate and stopped. 25 ppm now but P is zero. I get it back up and in a week its zero again. May add to my doser. I have two free lines open. Been afraid to do that that I might drive it up too high. Guess start small and increase until I see it stay up. Anyway tank is great and I added new pods.

ALL my dead rock is now 100% covered in coralline since I setup doser.

 

[Deezill]

I'm in the same boat fighting coolia. Been running uv for about a week and the rocks look much better. Also seeing some improvement in some of the coral. Sand still looks like crap tho. How about your sand ? I'm gonna start dosing N&P next week to get that back in order before I add biodiversity. I'm probably gonna try they Indo Pacific mud and sand activator because there's much more than just pods in it

I was able to get my nitrates up by feeding twice a day heavy and leaving my filter socks in for longer periods of time. I normally change the socks every two day but I let them go like 5 to seven days without changing them that got my Nitrates up but I had to dose for Po4.
I purchase some stuff Randy recommended on amazon which is Disodium Phosphate. It has a 99% purity rate and it is good stuff. My Hanna checker for month did not register any phosphates but I dosed one teaspoon into 160mL of water from my tank stired it up good
and poured it in. 1 teaspoon was way to much I should have only used a quarter of a teaspoon for my tank which is 150g. My Po4 levels shot up from 0.00 on the hanna checker to 2.50. I had to run GFO for a few days to bring it back down. Once it got to 0.90 i turned off the gfo and let it drop naturally. i am still waiting on them to drop to 0.25. the stuff Randy had me get is below
https://www.amazon.com/Disodium-Pho...1528228339&sr=8-7&keywords=disodium+phosphate

if you get it i would suggest that you measure it in grams for your tank so you don't over shoot the desired level. I have not seen any fall out or anything but hey it's always silent before the thunder lol even though its been a few weeks and nothing bad has come I still say measure it in grams 99% purity is very high grade.

 

[kecked]

I measured 1 gram in 10ml and dose in 1ml doses in my 65g. 10ppm solution

 

[Deezill]

This link here come with everything.

http://www.ipsf.com/livesand.html

They will ship you sand and mud packed with spaghetti worms, bristleworms, copepods, amphipods, isopods, and maybe some micro brittle stars. Honestly, I wouldn't care what they send you. You want it all.

@reeferfoxx are bristle-worms safe for coral? Should I worry about any of the items eating my coral?

 

[Deezill]

I measured 1 gram in 10ml and dose in 1ml doses in my 65g. 100ppm soution

wait so you Po4 is what now? 100ppm? woooooow. Are you have an algae bloom or am I misunderstanding something.

 

[kecked]

no I dose 1ml of a 10ppm solution in my 65g tank

add 1g to a 10ml vial dose 1ml of that solution

 

[Deezill]

no I dose 1ml of a 10ppm solution in my 65g tank

add 1g to a 10ml vial dose 1ml of that solution

ooh ok gotcha. I am going to order some of this live mud as soon as I can get confirmation bristle worms won't harm my coral because i thought we wanted to keep stuff like that away from our tanks. and that why we dip our coral is to keep bristle-worms and other critters out. If anyone else knows anything about bristle worms please chime on in.