Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Renan Isse]

Thanks a lot, man. Would you be willing to recommend me a few procedures to get rid of them? So far all I'm trying is increasing nitrate and phosphate. I didn't use peroxide because I have two anemones and I heard they might suffer from it.

Amphidinium dinos. The other cells are either diatoms, ciliates, or amphidinium dinos that have been squished by the slide cover (cells at bottom of pics number 4 & 5).

 

[dwest]

Thanks a lot, man. Would you be willing to recommend me a few procedures to get rid of them? So far all I'm trying is increasing nitrate and phosphate. I didn't use peroxide because I have two anemones and I heard they might suffer from it.

If i were you, I’d make sure I am runnng fresh GAC and replacing weekly. In addition to what you are doing, I would make sure I am siphoning sand at least weekly. I also blew my rocks daily but I also have UV to kill any I could get into the water column. You should also read as much of this thread as you can, keeping in mind amphidinium mostly stays in the sand so UV isn’t as effective. Good luck.

 

[taricha]

Thanks a lot, man. Would you be willing to recommend me a few procedures to get rid of them? So far all I'm trying is increasing nitrate and phosphate. I didn't use peroxide because I have two anemones and I heard they might suffer from it.

Good start. Definitely familiarize yourself with the concepts of this thread, and then in addition to it, check out some of the additional tools being tried vs amphidinium over here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/amphidinium-dinoflagellate-treatment-methods.365850/

 

[Renan Isse]

If i were you, I’d make sure I am runnng fresh GAC and replacing weekly. In addition to what you are doing, I would make sure I am siphoning sand at least weekly. I also blew my rocks daily but I also have UV to kill any I could get into the water column. You should also read as much of this thread as you can, keeping in mind amphidinium mostly stays in the sand so UV isn’t as effective. Good luck.

Thanks a lot. I'll look for GAC as fast as I can. It's been a long time I don't siphon, because I've read that water changes aren't recommended. Should I continue doing them then?

A UV is off the budget, but will surely be considered. Here in Brazil, reefkeeping is pretty expensive though.

 

[Renan Isse]

I'll surely read it. Thank you very much

Good start. Definitely familiarize yourself with the concepts of this thread, and then in addition to it, check out some of the additional tools being tried vs amphidinium over here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/amphidinium-dinoflagellate-treatment-methods.365850/

 

[dwest]

Thanks a lot. I'll look for GAC as fast as I can. It's been a long time I don't siphon, because I've read that water changes aren't recommended. Should I continue doing them then?

A UV is off the budget, but will surely be considered. Here in Brazil, reefkeeping is pretty expensive though.

There is debate about doing water changes during a dino event. However, since amphidinium are mostly in the sand, it made sense for me to siphon the sand bed. I eventually removed 90% of my sand bed. That seemed to make the biggest difference for me. If I had to do it all over, I would have removed my sand sooner. But I am stubborn and like my sand... Keep asking questions. taricha, mcarroll, reeferfox, and many others will help you out.

 

[Renan Isse]

Oh, I have dinos also in LR, so I'm not sure whether removing sand is a good idea or not. I may consider filter the water I remove and send it back to the tank

There is debate about doing water changes during a dino event. However, since amphidinium are mostly in the sand, it made sense for me to siphon the sand bed. I eventually removed 90% of my sand bed. That seemed to make the biggest difference for me. If I had to do it all over, I would have removed my sand sooner. But I am stubborn and like my sand... Keep asking questions. taricha, mcarroll, reeferfox, and many others will help you out.

 

[dwest]

Oh, I have dinos also in LR, so I'm not sure whether removing sand is a good idea or not. I may consider filter the water I remove and send it back to the tank

Others have done that...

 

[Renan Isse]

Is it a good thing to do? Maybe letting the water sit for a few hours before sending it back to the tank...

Others have done that...

 

[taricha]

Is it a good thing to do? Maybe letting the water sit for a few hours before sending it back to the tank...

If you filter down to a micron or so, or return the water through strong uv, then the water can be returned dino-free.

 

[mcarroll]

These are not the pods you are looking for...
"Each 16oz portion of 5280 Pods contains 5280+ LIVE Tigriopus, Tisbe, and Apocyclops Copepods ranging from nauplii to adult sizes. "

These are the pods you are looking for...
Pods from floridapets.com
"Lately, we have found that our pod portions have contained mostly amphipods. You will likely also see a few isopods and a few assorted other creatures such as: skeleton shrimp, tiny feather duster worms, small sea squirts small ghost shrimp and other forms of micro fauna."

Sweet another source!


Also, I dunno if someone already mentioned Sustainable Aquatics SA Feeds? Thoughts on their offerings?

 

[mcarroll]

It's been a long time I don't siphon, because I've read that water changes aren't recommended. Should I continue doing them then?

If it would really help, go ahead and do one, but I'd dose your water change water with NO3 and PO4 to minimize any effects on the nutrients in the tank.

If you can make-do with one of the suggested workarounds where the water is filtered and returned, that's not a bad idea.

A UV is off the budget, but will surely be considered. Here in Brazil, reefkeeping is pretty expensive though.

As @taricha mentioned a few posts back, micron filtration is another option – not just for your water changes, but for in-tank filtration. Here the price is similar, but not sure about where you are. It's just a pleated filter that you can optionally add diatom filter powder to in order to increase the filtration power for tiny items like dino spores.

The Magnum Polishing Filter is one you might find for sale – probably the easiest one to use, but also on the small side depending on your tank size.

Also the Vortex is the other main option you're likely to find and they have several options:

D-1 A Diatom Filter USA

$134.64

D-1 C Diatom Filter Canada

$140.01

D-1 E Diatom Filter 220 Volt

$170.25

Diatom Model "DFF" Freedom Filter

$148.67

I'm not sure what their international shipping policy is for Brazil in particular, but based on the options they're clearly geared to sell outside the USA. I'd write/call/email both companies to ask.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Sustainable Aquatics SA Feeds? Thoughts on their offerings?

My LFS sells their pods and bottled bristleworms. I passed on the worms but picked up roughly 8 ounces of questionably "live" pods for nearly $30. I saw a few moving. Nothing to brag about.

 

[taricha]

Sustainable aquatics has a couple of cool things to recommend them.
1) they sell amphipods.
2) they supply to my LFS, so I can tell my LFS to put in an order with their next batch and I can get it off the truck the day it arrives and not pay shipping.
3) they are the most local source to me of T-isochrysis (live microalgae relevant to fish breeding)

 

[reeferfoxx]

On the level of best bang for the buck, ipsf or floridapets has it going. Live sand from Florida pets should include those things at a very low price and for $60 at ipsf they will include amphipods separately and in addition to what the sand and mud comes with. Plus ipsf will contain micro brittlestars and bristleworms with other little hermits and snails.

 

[grove2nmb]

Hey everyone, so I am concerned I may have Dino’s in my display tank. I have had them before in a previous tank and that led me to completely ripping down the tank and throwing it away. Nothing from the old is in the new tank. This tank is 8 months old and has been doing excellent. PH 8.2, nitrates 4, phosphates .05, alk 9, calcium 450, mag 1400. I dose two part and use aminos, the tank is mostly sps dominated. I have no issues with the corals. My problem is I noticed a few brown strands coming off my rock a week ago, and it has been progressively getting worse. It is now on the sand bed and my torch is not opening as normal. I do run GFO but I removed it and added fresh carbon today. Over all the tank look good it’s not noticeable until you get really up on it. I did the two tests described earlier and it did bubble and float in peroxide but did reform after passing thru a coffee filter. Please let me know what you guys think. These are the best pics of the algae I could get and afull tank shot.

 

[dwest]

Hey everyone, so I am concerned I may have Dino’s in my display tank. I have had them before in a previous tank and that led me to completely ripping down the tank and throwing it away. Nothing from the old is in the new tank. This tank is 8 months old and has been doing excellent. PH 8.2, nitrates 4, phosphates .05, alk 9, calcium 450, mag 1400. I dose two part and use aminos, the tank is mostly sps dominated. I have no issues with the corals. My problem is I noticed a few brown strands coming off my rock a week ago, and it has been progressively getting worse. It is now on the sand bed and my torch is not opening as normal. I do run GFO but I removed it and added fresh carbon today. Over all the tank look good it’s not noticeable until you get really up on it. I did the two tests described earlier and it did bubble and float in peroxide but did reform after passing thru a coffee filter. Please let me know what you guys think. These are the best pics of the algae I could get and afull tank shot.

I agree with removing gfo and adding GAC. I would personally ID with a microscope next.

 

[Scottybgood]

Just wanted to chime in on how much this thread saved my recent leap into reefing!

About six months ago I decided to start up a reef tank (had saltwater FOWLR tank about 15 yrs ago), so as most geeks do, I researched, and googled and watched dozens of youtubes before buying a single piece of equipment and then went nuts, oversized everything for my 75g tank, got BRS dual reactor for GFO and GAC, big skimmer, large sump, etc. Decided on CaribSea LifeRock (the dry, man mad stuff since I was too impatient to worry about curing live rock and worried about unwanted hitchhikers in hindsight my first NEWBIE mistake) and CaribSea "live" sand. Fishless cycled with Dr Tim's One and only and ammonia for a few weeks, and decided to add a couple fish. Immediately fired up the reactor with both GFO and GAC....because i could and it was a new toy. ;-) (Second NEWBIE mistake) Somehow in all that research I did, I did NOT read about ZERO N and P, and starting so "clean" without biodiversity beyond nitrifying bacteria is a recipe for problems - guess I should have googled more. HAHA

Started with my diatom bloom, so I was excited that the natural progression was happening. Got some forgiving corals and a couple more fish and was feeling good. Then the "diatoms" seems to be getting "stringy and slimy". So to trusty google search for "stringy diatoms" introduced me to a new pest, called dinoflagellates. Well mine don't quite look like THAT, so must just be some brown hair algae or something else...a few days go by and they are getting worse, and bubbles at the tips and then disappear at lights out.

Found a few threads about Vibrant, and Peroxide, then found THIS thread and proceeded to read every post. It took DAYS, but yes I read through every page and started following the recommendations. Did the shake test and filter through paper towel and took only minutes for them reform into strings. I was over my excuses that it was something else.

Step 1 - IDENTIFICATION! I got a microscope and determined I had Ostreopsis (but apparently a non-toxic variety as I didn't lose any snails or my lawnmower blenny which actually ate some of it)
Step 2 - Raise Nutrients - Started dosing NeoPhos and Stump Remover to get to recommended levels - removed Cheato from fuge and removed GFO
Step 3 - Started running a Vortex Diatom Filter at night to try and keep them knocked down while N and P levels were coming up
Step 4 - Added a UV sterilizer

I am delighted to say that I haven't seen a single strand of anything resembling dinos for over 4 weeks now. Actually, after I pulled the trigger on the UV and waiting for it to arrive, the tanks was almost clear of any visible signs, and I was kicking myself for not being patient with the dosing (which it had only been about 2 weeks since I achieved the desired P and N) and spending money I didn't need to....but since adding the UV the tank is looking fantastic. I am going to continue the UV for a while longer for the obvious benefits but to also keep them at bay to make sure the rest of the tank can continue to mature and keep them in their place.

After no sign for a while, I decided to stop dosing and let things find a natural place, and surprisingly the P fell to undetectable after about 4 days of not dosing NeoPhos (using the Hanna ULR checker) No GFO and no Macroalgae , very little algae in DT - have no idea where it is going. So I am now dosing about 2 mls every couple of days and I am stabilizing at about .04, Nitrates seem to hover between 2-5. Not sure when I will be able to stop adding P and N, but hopefully as the tank continues to mature it will find it's place.

Thanks so much to @mcarroll and @taricha and the dozens of other experienced members that have shared their knowledge and experience in this thread plus the others that have shared their results - good and bad. Once I got infested with a dino bloom, the approach outlined in this thread definitely work in my situation. Any future tank builds will definitely been done in a different manner with biodiversity from the get go.

 

[taricha]

My problem is I noticed a few brown strands coming off my rock a week ago, and it has been progressively getting worse. It is now on the sand bed and my torch is not opening as normal. I do run GFO but I removed it and added fresh carbon today. Over all the tank look good it’s not noticeable until you get really up on it. I did the two tests described earlier and it did bubble and float in peroxide but did reform after passing thru a coffee filter. Please let me know what you guys think.

That does look like dinos with the long brown strands, the bubbles in the peroxide test indicate there is some cyano in there most likely. But what passes through the coffee filter and reforms is almost certainly dinos. I'd worry about the dino part.

Yes remove GFO, and avoid aminos for now. The longer strands mean there are decent numbers moving through the water column and would be susceptible to UV.

 

[Renan Isse]

So, I've been reading that UV sterilizer is good for stopping Dino's reproductive cycle. On the other hand, it isn't very efficient on Amphidinium.
I've also read that metronidazole can affect Dino's reproductive cycle. If I'm not mistaken, what's the correct dosage on a 300l reef?