Brew12
Electrical Gru
Very nice! You should be ok then since the limestone is CaCO3. Have you ever tested it for calcium? You may have nearly perfect make up water for a reef tank!
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
- Thread starter mcarroll
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janos
Active Member
Hi to all,Taricha ask what kind of silica i used,this is home made DIY sodium silica sometime call water-glass. You-tube have lot of video from that.Regular drain cleaner from Home hardware,and katliter from Walmart.Just thinned down half way as i watch the video fro YouTube. Some pics is here.Not to worry about diatom bloom because that will slow down and after that start some green.(I hope)
I want to provide an update on what I did to get rid of dinos in case others have a similar situation. To recap, this is what I was dealing with:
Dinos started appearing shortly after Memorial Day and it took me a while to realize they weren't diatoms. Because I thought they were diatoms, I was running GFO and was doing frequent water changes. This caused the dinos to explode out of control, and by July 4th they had completely covered my sand bed. I got a microscope and confirmed they were in fact dinos -- mostly coolia (nearly perfectly round and swimming very erratically). I stopped the water changes and removed the GFO reactor. I added an 8-watt UV and used a very slow 60gph pump for it (my tank is 65 gallons). Then I did a 3-day blackout.
After the blackout, the dinos were significantly reduced. Only a few brown patches remained (instead of the entire sand bed), and when I looked in the microscope, all the coolia were gone. In their place were large cell amphidinium. I suspect they were there all along but were being outcompeted by the coolia. I continued to let the nitrates and phosphates increase naturally (I didn't dose anything, but had stopped water changes and had removed GFO). I continued to look at samples in the microscope and found the dinos were still there, but also saw diatoms starting to grow. I allowed the diatoms to grow and after about 10 days they started to die back. When I looked in the microscope, I could find no dinos and only diatoms. Still, I wasn't conviced they were all gone.
The next thing I did was siphon out approximately 1/2 to 3/4 inches of sand from the top of my sand bed, and replaced it with an inch or so of live sand I got from ARC Reef (very nice looking aquacultured sand). It has been a week since the transplant and I have seen no brown spots anywhere in that time. And no cyano either. I did about a 50% water change to get my nitrates and phosphates down to a manageable level and all seems to be doing very well. The only issue now is that I have a good amount of GHA growing on my rocks, and a couple of aiptasia have cropped up, probably due to the higher nutrients. Still, these are easier to deal with than the dinos.
So, in my case -- blackout plus slow-flow UV killed off the free-swimming coolia dinos. Increased nutrients allowed diatoms to outcompete the amphidinium. And then a small sand bed transplant of about an inch or so to remove any remaining diatoms, encysted dinos, or loose amphidinium that were still lingering. Now I have a nice bright white sand bed and some fuzzy rocks. Couldn't have done it without this thread, and hopefully someone else will benefit from my experience.
Dinos started appearing shortly after Memorial Day and it took me a while to realize they weren't diatoms. Because I thought they were diatoms, I was running GFO and was doing frequent water changes. This caused the dinos to explode out of control, and by July 4th they had completely covered my sand bed. I got a microscope and confirmed they were in fact dinos -- mostly coolia (nearly perfectly round and swimming very erratically). I stopped the water changes and removed the GFO reactor. I added an 8-watt UV and used a very slow 60gph pump for it (my tank is 65 gallons). Then I did a 3-day blackout.
After the blackout, the dinos were significantly reduced. Only a few brown patches remained (instead of the entire sand bed), and when I looked in the microscope, all the coolia were gone. In their place were large cell amphidinium. I suspect they were there all along but were being outcompeted by the coolia. I continued to let the nitrates and phosphates increase naturally (I didn't dose anything, but had stopped water changes and had removed GFO). I continued to look at samples in the microscope and found the dinos were still there, but also saw diatoms starting to grow. I allowed the diatoms to grow and after about 10 days they started to die back. When I looked in the microscope, I could find no dinos and only diatoms. Still, I wasn't conviced they were all gone.
The next thing I did was siphon out approximately 1/2 to 3/4 inches of sand from the top of my sand bed, and replaced it with an inch or so of live sand I got from ARC Reef (very nice looking aquacultured sand). It has been a week since the transplant and I have seen no brown spots anywhere in that time. And no cyano either. I did about a 50% water change to get my nitrates and phosphates down to a manageable level and all seems to be doing very well. The only issue now is that I have a good amount of GHA growing on my rocks, and a couple of aiptasia have cropped up, probably due to the higher nutrients. Still, these are easier to deal with than the dinos.
So, in my case -- blackout plus slow-flow UV killed off the free-swimming coolia dinos. Increased nutrients allowed diatoms to outcompete the amphidinium. And then a small sand bed transplant of about an inch or so to remove any remaining diatoms, encysted dinos, or loose amphidinium that were still lingering. Now I have a nice bright white sand bed and some fuzzy rocks. Couldn't have done it without this thread, and hopefully someone else will benefit from my experience.
Last edited:
Kimberely
Well-Known Member
Honestly haven't tested it for calcium. But I know it has some in it. I'm constantly fighting calcium and limescale on my faucets, lol.
Ecvernon
Active Member
I love reefing! There are some days where I just hate it. It seems I solve one problem and create another.
I think I have dino's. I've ordered a toy microscope to confirm.
I have a 150 gallon mixed reef and was previously using carbon dosing, GFO and occasional MB7 to keep nutrients in check. I've never reached 0 on Po4 and NO3.
I wanted to get more serious with SPS coral so I decided to give up carbon dosing and switch to an Pax Bellum Arid N24 algae reactor. Now the Parameters started to reduce I've started to see positive changes in my Sps frags.
I really hope its just cyano but i'm not hopeful as almost every rock surface has air bubbles all over the place.
7-10-18 Before Arid algae reactor
PO4 - 0.343 ppm
No3- 20 ppm
8-09-18
PO4- 0.055ppm -- Ranging from 0.028 ppm - 0.092ppm
NO3- 2ppm----Been holding at 2ppm via salifert for about 2 weeks, never 0ppm
I think I have dino's. I've ordered a toy microscope to confirm.
I have a 150 gallon mixed reef and was previously using carbon dosing, GFO and occasional MB7 to keep nutrients in check. I've never reached 0 on Po4 and NO3.
I wanted to get more serious with SPS coral so I decided to give up carbon dosing and switch to an Pax Bellum Arid N24 algae reactor. Now the Parameters started to reduce I've started to see positive changes in my Sps frags.
I really hope its just cyano but i'm not hopeful as almost every rock surface has air bubbles all over the place.
7-10-18 Before Arid algae reactor
PO4 - 0.343 ppm
No3- 20 ppm
8-09-18
PO4- 0.055ppm -- Ranging from 0.028 ppm - 0.092ppm
NO3- 2ppm----Been holding at 2ppm via salifert for about 2 weeks, never 0ppm
read through most of the thread.
About week into seeing dinos, work schedule stopped me from doing something day 1.
This appeared about a month after having a slight cyano outbreak. Which i got rid of by upping my feeding since nitrate and phosphate both were zero or near zero.
But my plan:
-Tested water, nitrates were hot pink in my red sea test, i did not repeat with for high scale dilution, but know they are above low range scale i used lol.
-Did a phosphate test, this was most definitely zero.
-Today i have done 3 10% wc to get nitrate back to normal number, i really dont have specific goal a stable 3-10ppm would be the aim i guess.
-added some microbacter 7 after wc 3.
-mixed a solution of 5.21g kh2po4 to 300ml rodi. And made a dosing container, and hooked up to an unused pump on my doser. Was starting my dose at 1ml a day or .05ppm for my 50 gallons of system water.
Will test and adjust till surpass demand and binding capacity.
-went back to smaller cubes(hakari coral gumbo) and preportioning lrs so same amount of food is fed each day.
-ordered a kessil fuge light and macro (ulva and chetao) to replace or augment depending on test results my carbon dosing(bio pellets) for filtration.
-removed my filter socks to accomplish, and adding rock rubble below macro.
Thoughts or suggestions?
About week into seeing dinos, work schedule stopped me from doing something day 1.
This appeared about a month after having a slight cyano outbreak. Which i got rid of by upping my feeding since nitrate and phosphate both were zero or near zero.
But my plan:
-Tested water, nitrates were hot pink in my red sea test, i did not repeat with for high scale dilution, but know they are above low range scale i used lol.
-Did a phosphate test, this was most definitely zero.
-Today i have done 3 10% wc to get nitrate back to normal number, i really dont have specific goal a stable 3-10ppm would be the aim i guess.
-added some microbacter 7 after wc 3.
-mixed a solution of 5.21g kh2po4 to 300ml rodi. And made a dosing container, and hooked up to an unused pump on my doser. Was starting my dose at 1ml a day or .05ppm for my 50 gallons of system water.
Will test and adjust till surpass demand and binding capacity.
-went back to smaller cubes(hakari coral gumbo) and preportioning lrs so same amount of food is fed each day.
-ordered a kessil fuge light and macro (ulva and chetao) to replace or augment depending on test results my carbon dosing(bio pellets) for filtration.
-removed my filter socks to accomplish, and adding rock rubble below macro.
Thoughts or suggestions?
Ecvernon
Active Member
Darn.
Does everyone one have Dino's in there tank?
I ask because I had some frags that I was planning to get rid of to make some room.
I know the trigger is low nutrients , but should I avoid sharing my headache with friends who have never experienced Dino's?
Does everyone one have Dino's in there tank?
I ask because I had some frags that I was planning to get rid of to make some room.
I know the trigger is low nutrients , but should I avoid sharing my headache with friends who have never experienced Dino's?
I think you should give full disclosure and let people make up their own mind. It's really the only honest thing to do. It is likely though if they are the type of person that gets corals at their local LFS, they probably already have them. Now that I know what to look for, I see dinos pretty commonly at the various LFSes I go to.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I'm pretty sure they are in every tank. I can always find a strain or two under the microscope when looking at my sump grunge.
Ecvernon
Active Member
Definitely! Always full disclosure. I actually brought my friends into the hobby. So that means when I disclose the possibility of dino's, they would just ask me to make the decision for them. Lol
OP
OP
mcarroll
10K Club member
@Gareth elliott in the immediate term, lay off of the bio-pellets, bacterial dosing and save the refugium upgrade.
You may or may not need them at all once this is sorted out.
But if you do, it won't be until this is well into the past and when the tank has an actual nutrient buildup.
Until then, they are all complicating and extending the dino problem, which obviously isn't helpful.
With any luck the tank will respond nicely to your nutrient inputs and this won't take long.
Do you have access to a micron or UV filter currently?
Let us know about the scope photos! (Can you post a visual photo of what's blooming too?)
You may or may not need them at all once this is sorted out.
But if you do, it won't be until this is well into the past and when the tank has an actual nutrient buildup.
Until then, they are all complicating and extending the dino problem, which obviously isn't helpful.
With any luck the tank will respond nicely to your nutrient inputs and this won't take long.
Do you have access to a micron or UV filter currently?
Let us know about the scope photos! (Can you post a visual photo of what's blooming too?)
@mcarroll
I was using a classroom microscope will attempt to get a useful image from the cheap digital one i have lol.
Will drain my bp reactor when i get home, this way doesnt turn to collection of sulphur [emoji23].
Have a sun sun 13w uv arriving tomorrow. Approximately the size mentioned for my 40b.
Up to 3 ml of kh2po4 solution a day, timed around my photoperiod, assuming consumption was greater with lights on than off. Will retest po4 when i get home to see if this needs to be upped again.(each ml is .05 po4 for my volume, if i did my math correctly anyway)
I was using a classroom microscope will attempt to get a useful image from the cheap digital one i have lol.
Will drain my bp reactor when i get home, this way doesnt turn to collection of sulphur [emoji23].
Have a sun sun 13w uv arriving tomorrow. Approximately the size mentioned for my 40b.
Up to 3 ml of kh2po4 solution a day, timed around my photoperiod, assuming consumption was greater with lights on than off. Will retest po4 when i get home to see if this needs to be upped again.(each ml is .05 po4 for my volume, if i did my math correctly anyway)
OP
OP
mcarroll
10K Club member
Consumption is bacterial, so it can be prodigious at first depending on the tank.
It appears to be done well enough in a "lump sum" dose, so I'd consider letting the doser run at a moderate level and that you just make manual adjustment doses to restore the tested PO4 level to >=0.10 ppm. Test and adjust as frequently as is practical....sooner or later the doser will be enough, or more than enough.
Keep us posted!
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Don't forget that PO4 consumption is also chemical! It will get bound to the rock and substrate on the way up making it harder to raise PO4. It gets released into the water on the way down, making it harder to lower.
Just something to keep in mind. What you will likely see is that after a period of time the amount of PO4 you need to dose to maintain a certain level drops when an equilibrium with the rock is achieved. When lowering it with GFO it will take much less to maintain a lower level after the new lower level is at an equilibrium
Frequent testing is a must!
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So have we started using aragonite sand in media reactors yet as a less disruptive way to moderate PO4 that's higher than we'd like?
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Interesting concept! I'm guessing the reactions don't happen fast enough to make it work though...So have we started using aragonite sand in media reactors yet as a less disruptive way to moderate PO4 that's higher than we'd like?
How often should i change out carbon during treatment. Ordinarily i do change it every 2 weeks.
And can i test the presence of Saxitoxin by taking a sample of tank water and adding a strong oxidizer, and viewing with uv light?
And can i test the presence of Saxitoxin by taking a sample of tank water and adding a strong oxidizer, and viewing with uv light?
I like your plan. However I would stop carbon dosing. I would also wait a while on the fuge until phosphates rise a bit ( about 0.2 ppm). May also need to beef up the cuc when phosphates rise. Good luck!
I would change out GAC weekly until dinos are pretty much gone. Then go back to normal.
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