Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Paullawr]

Mine were very toxic.

A number of factors what the heck toxicity.

1) the produced contains toxins used to trap, paralyze and kill prey. Once done the dinoflagellates absorb nutrients. (Hence my disablief nutrient balancing is working quite the way some think).

2) neutralizing toxin in water column is going to come from filtration abillity and tanks differ. GAC of varying qualities will make a difference and i suspect those tanks running ozone would be least affected.

3) most tanks have nore than one strain. A dominant may become the aquariasts target and once in recession its not uncommon for the other strain to appear. This can of course cause problems in itself as what workes before now stopped working!

4) some clean up crew less affected by toxins. I had a conch that was unnafected by dinos...but met an early grave thanks to my use of dino x.

5) tests studies showed that exposed to higher levels of nitrate higher increased the dinoflagellate toxin. (Yet another counter to the nutrient increase solution).

Ultimately there is a huge amount we have learnt over past decade but still with as many questions remaining.

 

[dwest]

There is no substitute for microscopic ID of your species. However, I'm wondering if some characteristics can be used to identify species that may be sensitive to UV. My dinos were ostreopsis and one of the things I would note was that my sand and rocks would be relatively pristine in the morning when the lights came on but would get progressively worse as the day went on.

Could this pattern be a reliable signal for those who can't or don't want to get access to a microscope?

I think the pattern that you describe likely means that is not amphidinium (I think this is somewhat of a stretch, but may be true). So UV would likely be beneficial. It seems to me that experienced reefers need to get information to the newer ones about the correlation between low nutrients and dinos. Unfortunately, you have to go through an episode to believe it can happen to your own tank.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

For those of you who have installed the Jebao 55W UV, what diameter hose do I need?

Thank you.

 

[dwest]

For those of you who have installed the Jebao 55W UV, what diameter hose do I need?

Thank you.

Pretty sure it’s 3/4”. You can cut the barb to make the diameter larger, but you likely won’t need to do that.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

Pretty sure it’s 3/4”. You can cut the barb to make the diameter larger, but you likely won’t need to do that.

Thanks.
The unit arrived today. Wow, it's big. My idea if fitting it without my wife noticing have gone out of the window.[emoji848]

 

[saltyhog]

Thanks.
The unit arrived today. Wow, it's big. My idea if fitting it without my wife noticing have gone out of the window.[emoji848]

Yes 3/4" ID is the smallest barb on the fittings.

Imagine two of them hooked together in series! That's why mine is still in a temporary location while I figure out how to position it permanently!

 

[Paullawr]

Thanks.
The unit arrived today. Wow, it's big. My idea if fitting it without my wife noticing have gone out of the window.[emoji848]

LOL.

 

[Paullawr]

I think the pattern that you describe likely means that is not amphidinium (I think this is somewhat of a stretch, but may be true). So UV would likely be beneficial. It seems to me that experienced reefers need to get information to the newer ones about the correlation between low nutrients and dinos. Unfortunately, you have to go through an episode to believe it can happen to your own tank.

Exactly. Problem also is most people dont know they have them. I was about six months battling on first tank before I found what they were. What a horrible rollercoaster ensued arfter that. Lets also consider nutrient stabilistion is entirely against the hobbies nutrient reduction focus. If id of just been happy with slight detecable phosphate and nitrate about 5ppm way back when id of saved a fortune and all the hell that come with it.

 

[SeaDweller]

Well I don't think what I'm dealing with is dinos. The tailspot blenny and little tomini tang in the frag tank eat the brown strands, and there's a patch that sits under another frag rack (stacked on the eggcrate) that has died underneath it. Light still runs 8+ hours so I'm sure if it was dinos, then that patch would still be alive, as light still gets underneath the stacked frag rack.

 

[Shallow Planet]

So I may have 2 different types. If they arent moving under microscope does this mean they are dead? The ones off of rocks are mostly not moving with some of them spiraling where you can see the sides of them.

Sample from sand still shows several moving constantly.

I am dosing nittates phosphates silicates and dinox. I am thinking the dinox may be killing what's on the rocks but not hurting what's on the sand bed. Only on dose 2 tho.

Any advice?

 

[Paullawr]

So I may have 2 different types. If they arent moving under microscope does this mean they are dead? The ones off of rocks are mostly not moving with some of them spiraling where you can see the sides of them.

Sample from sand still shows several moving constantly.

I am dosing nittates phosphates silicates and dinox. I am thinking the dinox may be killing what's on the rocks but not hurting what's on the sand bed. Only on dose 2 tho.

Any advice?

Hopefully dead but dont take it for granted, could be dormant/not motile. Still lets hope they are on the way out.

Its actually more uncommon to have only one strain vs several. It would be like selectively keeping out all bacteria except one. What tends to happen is when one is beat and we go back to old habbits of reducing nutrients etc another strain becomes dominant. Additionally you can reintroduce the strain you had, few months down the line think they are back.

Be careful with dino x. Monitor the other habitants closely. I believe its an ammonium compound which as you know is toxic.

Still keep doing what you are and see how things look on a week by week basis.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

Things can change really quickly. The green cyano that I had growing on my rocks and sand has just disappeared in 2 days. The good news is that my sand is pretty much dino free and the amount growing on my overflow and back glass has reduced. The bad news is that dinos are starting to reappear on my rocks.
My UV steriliser is now set up and running (it looks terrible) so hopefully things will start to clear up (touch wood)

 

[saltyhog]

I think the pattern that you describe likely means that is not amphidinium (I think this is somewhat of a stretch, but may be true). So UV would likely be beneficial. It seems to me that experienced reefers need to get information to the newer ones about the correlation between low nutrients and dinos. Unfortunately, you have to go through an episode to believe it can happen to your own tank.

Sad but so true. I read about all the horror stories with dinos but got complacent because I had run with zero nitrate/zero phosphate in the past and got away with it. Let's just say I no longer have a fear of GHA! Thankfully I think people are learning their corals do better with some nutrients and hopefully that alone will end the fascination with ULN systems before dinos get any more common!

 

[dugthefish]

Not gonna go back and read 6k posts, but is anyone still dosing hydrogen peroxide? If not, why?

 

[Jonreefer]

I stopped after my 4 day black out.

 

[Paullawr]

Not gonna go back and read 6k posts, but is anyone still dosing hydrogen peroxide? If not, why?

This is the problem with this thread now. Should be closed off like last one and new one opened continuing where it left off.

H202 can have an effect but its indiscriminate and doesnt solve the problem. Ie oxidizes anything not just protists. As a result is a poor choice. Additionally some strains (armour plating) theca is too hard for the h202 to break it down unless used in fatal to aquatic life doses.

Bleach has a better result if going down the route of sterilizing agents. There was a thread on here testing it.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

My UV sterilizer has been run overnight for the first time and this morning things are looking really good, by far the best the display has looked since the outbreak. I can spot a couple of very small patches of dinos but that is it.
My skimmer cup was almost full this morning after being emptied last night just in case.
I wish that I had bought a UV from the start. It would have probably saved me a lot of stress.
Just for information, I think that I have been battling prorocentrum.

 

[Paullawr]

My UV sterilizer has been run overnight for the first time and this morning things are looking really good, by far the best the display has looked since the outbreak. I can spot a couple of very small patches of dinos but that is it.
My skimmer cup was almost full this morning after being emptied last night just in case.
I wish that I had bought a UV from the start. It would have probably saved me a lot of stress.
Just for information, I think that I have been battling prorocentrum.

Good work Steve.

Its funny how the treatment methods have evolved and how our understanding has also over time. UV was mostly regarded as a failed solution for most.

What we didnt know at the time was that we were battling different strains with different characteristics. UV isnt always affective and it HAS to be powerful enough to damage their DNA and boy are their defensives tough to crack.

Identification via microscope has helped broadly chuck them in to unique buckets. Once we knew we had more than one strain in the hobby that helped.

Now tinkering with UV has also. Finding that your standard 9w is going to get laughed at and that running in main display rather than sump also bizarrely makes a huge difference.

Good luck Steve.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

Good work Steve.

Its funny how the treatment methods have evolved and how our understanding has also over time. UV was mostly regarded as a failed solution for most.

What we didnt know at the time was that we were battling different strains with different characteristics. UV isnt always affective and it HAS to be powerful enough to damage their DNA and boy are their defensives tough to crack.

Identification via microscope has helped broadly chuck them in to unique buckets. Once we knew we had more than one strain in the hobby that helped.

Now tinkering with UV has also. Finding that your standard 9w is going to get laughed at and that running in main display rather than sump also bizarrely makes a huge difference.

Good luck Steve.

Looks good doesn't it? [emoji2] I will be glad when the monstrosity can be put away, hopefully for good.

 

[Paullawr]

It blends in seamlessly.