Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Paullawr]

I've still got some patches on the sand but pretty much gone everywhere else.
Should I blow the sand off just before lights out when my UV comes on?

Wouldnt hurt. Neither would a 72 hour blackout now. Get them in to water column for a good battering.

 

[saltyhog]

Since starting UV 6 days ago there has been an unbelievable improvement in my tank. The rocks look pristine with no evidence of dinos, the sand has no matting at all. Just some spots with individual sand grains being brown. I think that's just algae and detritus as I have refrained from vacuuming the sand for fear of worsening the dinos.

Last night I noticed some reddish very thin strands on the sand bed that seemed to be moving intelligently and were actually moving individual grains of sand against the flow. I'm pretty sure these are tentacles of some of the medusa worms I have in the sand bed. Just to be sure I suctioned one of those areas and looked at it drop by drop under the microscope. On two drops I saw one or two of these guys. They look like a dino to me and definitely not the ostreopsis I've been fighting. This was taken at 100x. If I tried to go in higher magnification I had problems finding them.


Anything to be concerned about? I'm still running my UV and maintaining my nutrients. My SPS, zoas and inverts look great.

 

[Zhark17]

Hi guys... The dirty method, doesnt work, Dinos are everywhere, they receded, but theyre back!! No3 50ppm, po4 0.5ppm... This is crazy
Gonna try Vibrant..
Some people told me it may work.

 

[Paullawr]

Since starting UV 6 days ago there has been an unbelievable improvement in my tank. The rocks look pristine with no evidence of dinos, the sand has no matting at all. Just some spots with individual sand grains being brown. I think that's just algae and detritus as I have refrained from vacuuming the sand for fear of worsening the dinos.

Last night I noticed some reddish very thin strands on the sand bed that seemed to be moving intelligently and were actually moving individual grains of sand against the flow. I'm pretty sure these are tentacles of some of the medusa worms I have in the sand bed. Just to be sure I suctioned one of those areas and looked at it drop by drop under the microscope. On two drops I saw one or two of these guys. They look like a dino to me and definitely not the ostreopsis I've been fighting. This was taken at 100x. If I tried to go in higher magnification I had problems finding them.


Anything to be concerned about? I'm still running my UV and maintaining my nutrients. My SPS, zoas and inverts look great.

Looks like amphidium the way it moves.

As ive said on a few posts back its extremely unlikely any of us got away scott free with one strain. Its more common to have two, three or more than one. When we remove one another becomes more dominant.

On one note though its likely this was always on the sandbed but the larger areas naturally draw attention.

Again its good we have means now to identify strains and group them in to their unique characteristics. Had we not you would assume UV didnt work against them.

The ID has really only been a more recent affair over past 18 months or so which started on the earlier master thread.

 

[Paullawr]

I think the max no of strains i had at one time was five. With one securing no positive ID and moved like S hit off a shovel.

 

[Paullawr]

Hi guys... The dirty method, doesnt work, Dinos are everywhere, they receded, but theyre back!! No3 50ppm, po4 0.5ppm... This is crazy
Gonna try Vibrant..
Some people told me it may work.

No dirty method doesn't work. Neither does vibrant.
It was tested under agreement with one user who we have to thank for the original threads on dinos - twillard.

When vibrant is used the dinoflagellates encyst. So temporarily your tank looks great but then they remerge. I also highly suspect with a higher tolerance for the stuff in vibrant as that happend to me.

 

[saltyhog]

@Paullawr

So far (a week) these don't seem to have increased to noticeable levels. Anything additional I can do? Is vacuuming the sand bed helpful?

 

[Zhark17]

No dirty method doesn't work. Neither does vibrant.
It was tested under agreement with one user who we have to thank for the original threads on dinos - twillard.

When vibrant is used the dinoflagellates encyst. So temporarily your tank looks great but then they remerge. I also highly suspect with a higher tolerance for the stuff in vibrant as that happend to me.

Pufff.. Seriously, I really don't know what to do, then! Not sure if I have prorocentrum or Amphidinium like they looked similar (under micro), it grows on the rocks, dont know if that means something. So... Ill give it a try, and see if vibrant works 4 me...

 

[Paullawr]

@Paullawr

So far (a week) these don't seem to have increased to noticeable levels. Anything additional I can do? Is vacuuming the sand bed helpful?

Yeah thats what ive done in past. Fresh water doesnt kill them though sadly so rinsing isnt an option.

Keep on top of it and with gradual nutrient levelling hopefully will recede or at worse not bother anything.

 

[saltyhog]

Yeah thats what ive done in past. Fresh water doesnt kill them though sadly so rinsing isnt an option.

Keep on top of it and with gradual nutrient levelling hopefully will recede or at worse not bother anything.

Thanks Paul. I wouldn't have had any idea they were there if I hadn't decided to aspirate that area. There really isn't anything visible to indicate their presence. If they stay like they are I can live with them.

 

[._Z_.]

Been fighting a mix of strains for many weeks now. I’ve tried raising PO4 and NO3 and adding live rock from LFS.
Just came off of a 3 day blackout with H2O2 dosing and the little buggers are coming back out like nothing ever happened.
Meanwhile I’ve lost or am currently losing the last of my SPS as well as my patience..
Pretty depressed with the state of my tank so I guess I’ll drop the $70 and rig up a UV somehow. Idk what else to try at this point, feeling down and out.

 

[dwest]

Been fighting a mix of strains for many weeks now. I’ve tried raising PO4 and NO3 and adding live rock from LFS.
Just came off of a 3 day blackout with H2O2 dosing and the little buggers are coming back out like nothing ever happened.
Meanwhile I’ve lost or am currently losing the last of my SPS as well as my patience..
Pretty depressed with the state of my tank so I guess I’ll drop the $70 and rig up a UV somehow. Idk what else to try at this point, feeling down and out.

Make sure you have GAC in the system to remove toxins for now. The 55w jebao should be good for tanks up to about 150 gallons. This would help for many strains other than amphidinium. Flow about 1-3 tank gallons per hour through the UV from DT back to DT. Keep the phosphates and nitrates elevated. Good luck.

 

[Paullawr]

Thanks Paul. I wouldn't have had any idea they were there if I hadn't decided to aspirate that area. There really isn't anything visible to indicate their presence. If they stay like they are I can live with them.

Just watch your tank temps come spring and large disturbances of sandbed ie during maintenance/water change. They like a hike in temp.

Those arent as toxic as others so will get grazed if you have a conch for example.

You will know when they considering blooming as the sand will begin to darken and over a few days if not controlled will widen then when the patch is large enough some snotty string will appear. Not as bad as others but enough to annoy the crap out of you. Basically if starts to brown dont let it get to a large size.

Unfortuantly i have no other 'safe' tips other than what you are doing.

If it does get bad, you can always try metroplex to reign it in whilst you try another combo of attacks. Its good for about two weeks which can help.

 

[Paullawr]

Been fighting a mix of strains for many weeks now. I’ve tried raising PO4 and NO3 and adding live rock from LFS.
Just came off of a 3 day blackout with H2O2 dosing and the little buggers are coming back out like nothing ever happened.
Meanwhile I’ve lost or am currently losing the last of my SPS as well as my patience..
Pretty depressed with the state of my tank so I guess I’ll drop the $70 and rig up a UV somehow. Idk what else to try at this point, feeling down and out.

What fish and other corals do you have. There is one method thats instant....but it takes some hardy fish/coral.

 

[saltyhog]

Just watch your tank temps come spring and large disturbances of sandbed ie during maintenance/water change. They like a hike in temp.

Those arent as toxic as others so will get grazed if you have a conch for example.

You will know when they considering blooming as the sand will begin to darken and over a few days if not controlled will widen then when the patch is large enough some snotty string will appear. Not as bad as others but enough to annoy the crap out of you. Basically if starts to brown dont let it get to a large size.

Unfortuantly i have no other 'safe' tips other than what you are doing.

If it does get bad, you can always try metroplex to reign it in whilst you try another combo of attacks. Its good for about two weeks which can help.

So vacuuming the sand bed is a bad idea with these guys? I do have 2 large tiger conchs and 4 fighting conchs. Fortunately my water temp rarely varies more than 0.4 of a degree through out the year. We southerners keep that ambient temp down around 70 when the weather gets warm. LOL

 

[Paullawr]

So vacuuming the sand bed is a bad idea with these guys? I do have 2 large tiger conchs and 4 fighting conchs. Fortunately my water temp rarely varies more than 0.4 of a degree through out the year. We southerners keep that ambient temp down around 70 when the weather gets warm. LOL

Vacuum is ok rather dont aggitate it a lot. Usually combined with warmer temps. Its their queue in nature to become a bloo dy nuisance and go exploring.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Hi guys... The dirty method, doesnt work, Dinos are everywhere, they receded, but theyre back!! No3 50ppm, po4 0.5ppm... This is crazy
Gonna try Vibrant..
Some people told me it may work.

So far vibrant only works on gambridiscus - reported by the owner of this forum. Unless you have a positive ID, you'll be chasing your tail. Your nutrients are on the high side though not always a bad thing. But, with a positive ID you can find the biozone for that particular strain and see what triggers growth. For me I had Coolia and I know they like high nitrogenous environments. So, a N level of 50ppm would for sure spur a growth in my tank. I've actually seen them pop up once when nitrates reached 25ppm.

 

[reeferfoxx]

@Zhark17 @._Z_. A $10 microscope off amazon will help tremendously.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Last night I noticed some reddish very thin strands on the sand bed that seemed to be moving intelligently and were actually moving individual grains of sand against the flow.

This sounds like spaghetti worms.

I watched your video and its hard to say if it's amphidinium. Typically the flagella will be prominent and in the front of it's movement or direction.

 

[OpenOcean33]

So still some small cyano patches on my sand. Yesterday I noticed little brown patches. Scared I got the microscope and test it. Each sample on showed a mix of what looked like dead gha cyano diatoms and 2 or 3 dinos. Which is way down for the thousands. So I dont think dinos are coming back maybe just dirty sand.