Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Shaun_in_Cali

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The common opinion is to size the unit at 1 watt per three gallons so 40 watts or so for killing dinos. 15+25=40 which is helpful. I'd run both.
It is further suggested that more contact time is helpful; closer to 300gph. Lastly, you are strongly encouraged to run to and from the DT.

So given all that here is MY opinion. While aesthetically this is not a crowd pleaser, if possible you should run them serial to/from the DT, powered by a smaller (like MJ1200 lph) pump unless the manufacturer lists a minimum flow rate which is higher.

Lastly, these bulbs definitely age poorly. And if they've ever been powered on without flow they overheat in minutes. Don't ask how I know this :). You can give them a try as is, but I would order replacements anyway, unless they look like unused units.
Thanks Scott, I appreciate the advice. I got a new bulb for the 25 as the previous was burnt out so no problems there. At present I don't have the parts I need to put them in serial; I've gone for a half way solution using an existing powerhead and returning to the sump. Project over the next week as I get the parts I think - I'll have to redo all the plumbing.
 
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ldolor2

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At what point after Dino’s (Osteropsis) have gone after using a UV sterilizer can you/do you remove the unit?
 

fluidimagery

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Thank you very much @taricha for the ID of Ostreopsis on my Dino situation.

I'm looking for a game plan on what the best course of action to eliminate these. Sorry for the long post, just trying to list everything I can to help.

Tank Specs:
Red Sea Reefer 625XXL
Lights - 2 x Orphek Atlantik v4 Gen 2
Return Pump is a EcoTech Vectra L2
2 x MaxSpect Gyre 280s

Filtration:
- PolyFil in the 4 Baskets in the Sump
- Santa Monica Rain2 Algea Scrubber
- Reef Octopus Classic Skimmer 202-S
- Marine Max Bio Balls
- Sponge in the last baffle that came with the tank

Once the Dino ID was confirmed I purchased a CoralLife Turbo Twist 36x that runs off of a Sicca 3.0 pump.
- The added UV light seems to be helped quite a bit to get rid of the bulk of the problem.

In addition I've been manually siphoning out 5 gallons of water with as much of the Dino as possible and replacing right after the lights turn off. Then taking a power head when the lights go out and blowing off what can be removed from the rock.

I'm using Tropic Marin Salt (not the Reef Pro) and I've stopped any type of dosing so my parameters are a bit out of whack at this point. Originally I believe I created the problem by dosing NoPox, having the Algae Scubber, and using a phosban reactor. The tank is fairly stocked.

7" Sohol
7" Rabbit Fish
5" Blue Tang
Purple Tang
Dusky Wrasse
Mystery Wrasse
Flame Angel
Clown Fish
Green Mandarin
2 x Sand Sifting Blenny

The tank is about a year and 1/2 old. The issues started about 6 months ago.
I've tried using Dino-X and Vibrant with no positive effects. Last thing I tried was removing the sand and going BB and removing all of my coral from the rock and scrubbing it with Hydrogen Peroxide.

This looked great for about a week and the Dinos started coming back. In the process my pod population took a big hit.

Current Parameters as of this morning:
Temp: 78
SG: 1.025
PH: 8.0
Alk: 6.3dkH
Calc: 300
Mag: 1240
PO4: .01
NO3: .025

Tests were taking with the Red Sea kit. NO3 is normally around 5 and PO4 around .025. I'll need to get the NO3 up.

Lighting Schedule:
Lights.jpeg


Tank Video:



















Any help on what I should do would be greatly appreciated. If any other info would be helpful, please let me know.
Another thing to add:
The algae scrubber is full with green algae about once a week. I run the lights in the scrubber about 18 hours a day. Should I cut this back, or turn the scrubber off all together to promote the green algae growth in the display? There isn't any green algae growing in the display at all.

Below is a pic - about 3 days worth of growth.
IMG_0374.jpg
 

ScottB

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At what point after Dino’s (Osteropsis) have gone after using a UV sterilizer can you/do you remove the unit?
That is a good question. I just moved mine down to the sump once the ostreos were under control. I know those critters are still lurking in there, just waiting for my nutrient dosers to run empty while I am out of town.
 

ScottB

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Another thing to add:
The algae scrubber is full with green algae about once a week. I run the lights in the scrubber about 18 hours a day. Should I cut this back, or turn the scrubber off all together to promote the green algae growth in the display? There isn't any green algae growing in the display at all.

Below is a pic - about 3 days worth of growth.
IMG_0374.jpg
Yes, I would take the scrubber offline. Also any GFO or carbon dosing.

Keep fresh GAC carbon running. I think you can slow that Sicce 3 down to 3-400 gph for better contact time.

I would not change your fish feeding levels, but no phyto or aminos. Ostreos love them IME.

Next, if your PO4 and NO3 levels don't come up to .08 and 10 or so, I would order up some trisodium phosphate (not a TSP substitute) and sodium nitrate and get dosing.

Keep basting the snot. You can also fly some sheets of filter floss in high flow/light areas of the glass and rinse them nightly. The snot loves to attach to it. I used simple suction cups and zip ties to place them.
 

Chiz

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Can anybody help me ID this? My PO4 dropped so I turned my reactor off and this started showing up. It seems like it’s attached to the rock as it’s hard to blow off.

84109113-2671-4EA8-9DBC-2ACCD345CFE3.jpeg 60E3CFAA-7FEE-4CC7-83A1-6FD0D87B8448.jpeg
 

gatohoser

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I don’t seem to be able to defeat this strain of dinos with basting and UV (Jebao 55) w/ cobalt Mj600. I have my nutrients up to around 0.06 ppm phosphate stable and Nitrates stable at 5 ppm by pulling out the fuge lights and chaeto. I have reversed my soda ash dosing to happen at daytime instead of night and put calcium dosing at night instead of day to try and up my pH and slow them down.

can anyone Id this strain from the sand? Here’s what we’re dealing with on the sand.
And zoomed in:
I’ve been battling these guys now for around a month and lost lots of SPS growth and recession and some gone completely. Sad lps and softies too. Running tons of carbon changing weekly.
 

ldolor2

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I don’t seem to be able to defeat this strain of dinos with basting and UV (Jebao 55) w/ cobalt Mj600. I have my nutrients up to around 0.06 ppm phosphate stable and Nitrates stable at 5 ppm by pulling out the fuge lights and chaeto. I have reversed my soda ash dosing to happen at daytime instead of night and put calcium dosing at night instead of day to try and up my pH and slow them down.

can anyone Id this strain from the sand? Here’s what we’re dealing with on the sand.
And zoomed in:
I’ve been battling these guys now for around a month and lost lots of SPS growth and recession and some gone completely. Sad lps and softies too. Running tons of carbon changing weekly.
I never understood why people suggest removing the Chaeto or turning off lights to the fuge... I’m sure there’s an explanation in one of these 407 pages... from my understanding you want algae to out compete dino’s for nutrients. What’s the difference between Chaeto vs say film algae? Isn’t that what a Refugium’s for? After all, it’s the same water column and same system right? As long as you keep up with keeping higher nurtrients to feed the said Chaeto, isn’t it essentially outcompeting the Dino’s? Please someone chime in and enlighten me...
 

ScottB

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I suppose you are correct about keeping enough nutrient that there is something for everyone including chaeto. The refugium is simply another nutrient export tool along with skimmer, GFO, algae scrubber and so on. You could conceivably keep running all of them and set your doser to dump a liter of trisodium phosphate and sodium nitrate per day to keep enough nutrient in the tank.

I keep my fuge running but shorten the light cycle during a breakout. Might also take the time to cut it back. I keep the skimmer running, but often dump skimmate back into the sump. And I am presently dosing 30ml TSP and 10ml of NO3 to keep my nutrients around .7 and 7 so that I can grow some cyano initially and some algae (hopefully) shortly thereafter.
 

taricha

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So you would say that the 1ml /10gal is not a high enough concentration to really affect dinos?
In my beaker tests, it took 2.0mL per L (80 times your safe dose) to kill ostreopsis, and even then, only if there was no other algae in the beaker.

Can anybody help me ID this?
diatoms.
can anyone Id this strain from the sand? Here’s what we’re dealing with on the sand.
coolia.
I never understood why people suggest removing the Chaeto or turning off lights to the fuge... I’m sure there’s an explanation in one of these 407 pages... from my understanding you want algae to out compete dino’s for nutrients.
My opinion - not universally shared, is to agree with you.
The overall thesis of the thread is to move away from P and N starvation and to allow other diverse organisms to thrive, compete for other resources than P and N and replace the dinos.
To do this, we ought to aim to grow (and export) as much algae as possible.
Algae scrubbers are great. They are not the problem.
Yes some dinos grow in a tight association with macroalgae, which is why an algae scrubber with easy export is excellent. Much easier than dino populations in the tank.
 

drawman

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My opinion - not universally shared, is to agree with you.
The overall thesis of the thread is to move away from P and N starvation and to allow other diverse organisms to thrive, compete for other resources than P and N and replace the dinos.
To do this, we ought to aim to grow (and export) as much algae as possible.
Algae scrubbers are great. They are not the problem.
Yes some dinos grow in a tight association with macroalgae, which is why an algae scrubber with easy export is excellent. Much easier than dino populations in the tank.
So how do you feel about chaeto refugiums? I've debated getting some going in my sump but I think I need to knock down the dinos and cyano some first or it won't stand a chance. My thought is if I can grow chaeto AND keep Nitrate at 10 and PO4 at 0.05-0.1 it may be a two front attack on the dinos.
 

gatohoser

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So how do you feel about chaeto refugiums? I've debated getting some going in my sump but I think I need to knock down the dinos and cyano some first or it won't stand a chance. My thought is if I can grow chaeto AND keep Nitrate at 10 and PO4 at 0.05-0.1 it may be a two front attack on the dinos.
You can certainly grow chaeto at those nutrient levels. That’s what mine was at before adding the fuge. My levels are way more stable without them. I used to test daily for phosphate because it would swing from 0.08 to 0.03 ppm in a day and zero out after another if I didn’t feed polyp booster to up the phosphate again. Possibly why I’m here in this thread fighting dinos. Not certain. But I’m happier without it since I never had a rising nitrate or phosphate problem before the chaeto was added anyways so it was probably unwarranted.
 

ScottB

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You can certainly grow chaeto at those nutrient levels. That’s what mine was at before adding the fuge. My levels are way more stable without them. I used to test daily for phosphate because it would swing from 0.08 to 0.03 ppm in a day and zero out after another if I didn’t feed polyp booster to up the phosphate again. Possibly why I’m here in this thread fighting dinos. Not certain. But I’m happier without it since I never had a rising nitrate or phosphate problem before the chaeto was added anyways so it was probably unwarranted.
I think I am with you on that. My DT has no fuge, and my nitrates are always low but present. My phosphate ranges .03-.08 running Rowa for 4 hrs a day. Heavy fish load.

My frag system has a fuge (down to 4 hour light cycle), medium fish load (working on it), and a two head doser for PO4 and NO3 dosing 4-6 times a day to escape my 3rd run in with dinos.

So if I don't need a fuge for nutrient reduction, why should I keep it?
 

gatohoser

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What is the consensus on whether to stir the dino-coated sandbed or not to break them up and get them in the Uv with coolia? It seemed to only disturb the diatoms trying to grow for my amphidinium but my coolia is persistent in comparison.
 
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ACF930

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Hi @taricha is this ostreopsis?
565E640F-1870-4434-860B-7110A8312FE1.jpeg


I’m currently on my 7th dose of DinoX. The Dinos have significantly reduced but not completely gone. I also had a couple SPS bleach and lost a few Euphyllia while dosing DinoX.

@fluidimagery I noticed that you are using Orphek Atlantik V4. I broke out with Dinos after I installed these lights (not sure if the spectrum has a way of catalyzing dinos).
 
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ldolor2

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The common opinion is to size the unit at 1 watt per three gallons so 40 watts or so for killing dinos. 15+25=40 which is helpful. I'd run both.
It is further suggested that more contact time is helpful; closer to 300gph. Lastly, you are strongly encouraged to run to and from the DT.

So given all that here is MY opinion. While aesthetically this is not a crowd pleaser, if possible you should run them serial to/from the DT, powered by a smaller (like MJ1200 lph) pump unless the manufacturer lists a minimum flow rate which is higher.

Lastly, these bulbs definitely age poorly. And if they've ever been powered on without flow they overheat in minutes. Don't ask how I know this :). You can give them a try as is, but I would order replacements anyway, unless they look like unused units.
Why is it suggested to run from DT to DT?
 

ldolor2

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That is a good question. I just moved mine down to the sump once the ostreos were under control. I know those critters are still lurking in there, just waiting for my nutrient dosers to run empty while I am out of town.
Most ‘chemical’ nutrient require shaking before use, such as Brightwell’s neo nitro and neo phos... how do you dose your nutrient? Do you use a mixing plate?
 

ScottB

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Why is it suggested to run from DT to DT?
I wouldn't call it mandatory. I have run from the sump before and gotten it done. It seems they don't travel as much in the water column as you might expect though and it will take a bit more time. Take this example: I have 3 frag tanks all connected to the same set of sumps. Only one tank currently has an ostreopsis outbreak. (The middle one with the UV hanging on it.) Same lights, same flow, same water, same sumps. The "older" two tanks don't have it but have had it before. Hey, maybe after this all three will be immune? One can hope.


Most ‘chemical’ nutrient require shaking before use, such as Brightwell’s neo nitro and neo phos... how do you dose your nutrient? Do you use a mixing plate?
I am using granular trisodium phosphate and sodium nitrate both food grade. The nitrate took a while to mix but both mix completely clear and stay in suspension. My temporary dosing setup is just a couple of clear plastic bottles, a couple BRS peristaltic pumps and a smart plug that doses throughout the day. I fairly quickly ramped up my dosing to 40ml of the TSP and 20ml of the NO3. (This is for 260g system volume.) I am now gradually winding them down. Was testing every day, now every 3-4.

A few pics for you:

IMG-4126.jpg IMG-4128.jpg IMG-4129.jpg
 

taricha

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Hi @taricha is this ostreopsis?

I’m currently on my 7th dose of DinoX. The Dinos have significantly reduced but not completely gone. I also had a couple SPS bleach and lost a few Euphyllia while dosing DinoX.
It's ostreopsis.
Ugh. That's why this thread has never recommended dino-x. Lots of reports of coral death and stress and dinos not really receding.

That, and the other reason it's never recommended is that it's chemically the same as what used to be called Algae-X. It's not dino specific, it's just an algacide. :-(
 

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