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Agree with @drawman , I think you nailed it on the likely contributing factors.Hmmm. That is not a correlation I've thought of before. I probably should have. My display system has all live rock (some very very old) and has never had dinos even though nutrients ran low for months and months.
My frag system only has some old rock in the sump -- and not much of it relative to water volume. And I just completed my third round with dinos (ostreopsis) there. Anecdotally supports your thesis.
So as just a thought exercise... the potential dino countering benefits of old live rock:
a) A potential store of PO4 that can release it into the water when nutrients get low
b) bacterial diversity score
c) microfauna diversity
d) a potential store of all kinds of competitive spore, cysts, critters, pods...
e) living algae
Other?
Counter arguments?
IMO and IME yeah 100% absolutely. I have never had a reef that had dino issues when started with all live rock. In fact 5-10 years ago dinoflagellates where almost completely unheard of. It wasnt until using dry rock to prevent pest introduction that the word dinoflagellates started to circulate in the reefing hobby. I think its the large lack of bio diversity that is missing from dry rock, there is just something that comes with the live rock that you can never introduce otherwise. This lack of diversity leaves a large biological nitch that will be filled by something and most likely something fast growing and nasty. Now with adding in wild caught fish, wild or maricultured corals on small pieces of rock, on frag plugs from a mature live rock system or seeding with some live rock in time that biodiversity will start to colonize the system. This can take 1-2 years or more even. I have been buying small pieces of live rock to add to my reef, which has been hard to find locally or online. As well as buying corals that are on a piece of rock like wild collected mushrooms and zoas. Hopefully with Indo opening back up we will be getting maricultured sps on rock like we used too. Maybe even see real live rock coming back in again, I can wish. Pic of mushroom that came on live rock from the ocean for an example.Do the people here agree that generally live rock is better than dry rock for preventing dinos in the first place?
These are Coolia. movement and shape are pretty distinctive.Can anyone help with Id please?
I cannot confirm either way. Clearly a mix of organisms. A few of those cells MIGHT look like procentrum (the ones with circles in the middle). You wrote "dinos again" so I will share my experience (and opinion) with you. Once you have had them, they will likely remain present (but submissive) for a LONG time. In a balanced system, they just cannot compete so well to be visually present and dominating. I am probably 2 months clean now (frag system) but if I take a scrape off the glass I will find ostreopsis.Worried that I might have Dinos again. They do not look anything like Dinos though until I put them under a microscope. No snotty mess. No bubbles.
I'd like to ask for an ID if possible.
Sorry. catching up on this discussion.Hallelujah! @taricha are you reading this?
good answer belowDino's have hit hard after installing the 50 gallon low boy but they are only in the low boy and I cannot get rid of them. I have no Dinos in the fuge, sump, and display tank.
Is this just cause the low boy tank is new? If so, what would be the suggestion?
I hold same reasoning as Scott here.You gave them some space with the low boy where no bacterial film, film algae, coralline, or other algae existed. You also (by 50 gallon dilution) reduced nutrient for the aforementioned competitors to compete or displace the opportunistic dinos.
Live rock (actual real live rock. not the purple painted stuff that has no pores in it.) may be a simpler path to the same.c) If adding capacity, run separate if you can to allow bacterial film, film algae, coralline, or other algae to get a grip.
d) Otherwise dirty up the system immediately to confuse the dino b******s.
Someone posted about using their actual fuge this way. Run 3 day blackout on display, lights on in the fuge. Collect dinos in the fuge. Then he cut off flow to the rest of the system, suck dinos out of fuge, and pour in a bunch of peroxide. Empty fuge and refill. I don't know that it's better than other ways of using blackout to force dinos into more vulnerable state and get UV'd, but maybe it's personally satisfying to obliterate a big mass of them in your fugeKinda like a Dino Fuge.
This was a long time hypothesis with anecdotal support. Eli at @AquaBiomics has recently put the idea on a much firmer basis with detailed microbiome testing.Do the people here agree that generally live rock is better than dry rock for preventing dinos in the first place?
It must be mentioned that a potential drawback is the introduction of dino cells and cysts. But live rock from ocean or a healthy system comes from a place where the balance has already been established in a way that disfavors dinos, so I'd take it any day.a) A potential store of PO4 that can release it into the water when nutrients get low
b) bacterial diversity score
c) microfauna diversity
d) a potential store of all kinds of competitive spore, cysts, critters, pods...
e) living algae
UV should draw in from display, and for simplicity many return it to display as well. As previous discussions highlights, cells don't go everywhere uniformly.I have read that the UV should be on the inlet and outlet to the display.
I cannot confirm either way. Clearly a mix of organisms. A few of those cells MIGHT look like procentrum (the ones with circles in the middle). You wrote "dinos again" so I will share my experience (and opinion) with you. Once you have had them, they will likely remain present (but submissive) for a LONG time. In a balanced system, they just cannot compete so well to be visually present and dominating. I am probably 2 months clean now (frag system) but if I take a scrape off the glass I will find ostreopsis.
Keep your UV in good shape and close by. Shake it at them, curse at them, threaten them and keep your nutrients balanced.
My first experience with Dinos ended after an accident that required me to remove 100% of the water and sand. I also RO dipped all of my rock except for 1 of them for over an hour. Since then, my parameters have been pretty stable. I am just really paranoid after my last Dino experience so I have been periodically taking samples of algae and looking at them in the microscope.
but maybe it's personally satisfying to obliterate a big mass of them in your fuge
Really good Q. Peroxide marginally effective as you say, but ozone was much better. I don't know if that's due to ozone being a stronger oxidizer than h2o2 (which it is), or if it's the 24/7 nature of ozone, or if it was the ease of simply "turning up" the ozone dose until it "worked" that made it more effective.So I was posing this question in another thread. I'm curious if anyone has used an oxydator to help combat dinos. I realize peroxide dosing is marginally effective but I wonder if an oxdator would be more beneficial.
jSo I was posing this question in another thread. I'm curious if anyone has used an oxydator to help combat dinos. I realize peroxide dosing is marginally effective but I wonder if an oxdator would be more beneficial. Just a thought because I have yet to see it mentioned in this thread.