Dinoflagellates my experience......h2o2 reefing tool!!!!!

[Troylee]

I don't run a fuge so I'm not sure but from what I have seen I don't think it would... When dipping plugs and frags I used a straight shot of h2o2 and tried it 50/50 with tank water.. Both seemed to work but the dillluted version obviously took longer to kill the algae.... If I remember
Correctly dinos are a single cell organism so that might be why it gets wiped out so fast.... You can always try a little in a bowl or something with chateo over night like a couple drops of h2o2 to simulate a dilluted version like a tank and see what happens over night...

 

[extremehobbyist]

thanks good advise i will try that

 

[melev]

"he recommends hydrogen peroxide 1ml per 10gallons of water daily" so i give that a shot "scared" i have a full blown sps reef, i dose 5ml per gallon on the first day... day 2 no change, so i do the recommended dose and wake up day 3 and the tank looks better....

I don't understand your math. He told you 1ml per 10g of water, and you started with 5ml per gallon?! I know it's late, and I'd really like to understand so please help me out.

 

[_Alex_]

I don't understand your math. He told you 1ml per 10g of water, and you started with 5ml per gallon?! I know it's late, and I'd really like to understand so please help me out.

think he ment .5 ml


good thing to know i may try this out for the little bit of algae i have

 

[Captain Nemo]

Good to hear Troy! I will def. be using this next time. I dont think I have ever fully gotten rid of mine, I hate this stuff. Anyways I am mid blackout and algaefix with some GFO, so if this dosent work will give this a shot!

 

[Troylee]

I don't understand your math. He told you 1ml per 10g of water, and you started with 5ml per gallon?! I know it's late, and I'd really like to understand so please help me out.

great catch Marc!!!!!" i will go edit the first post so no one gets confused". yeah i meant .5 ml lol..... my tank is 240 over all with sump i figured about 60 gal was rock and coral etc so i went with a 180gal water volume and dosed 9ml the first day only because i was very scared and never heard of anyone doing this...."my plan was do half what he said and check the next morning as soon as i got up " SCARED MAN" barely slept lol...
i woke up and noticed no change what so ever so then that afternoon i dosed 18ml and kept that dose for a week and it worked flawless......

 

[Troylee]

Good to hear Troy! I will def. be using this next time. I dont think I have ever fully gotten rid of mine, I hate this stuff. Anyways I am mid blackout and algaefix with some GFO, so if this doesn't work will give this a shot!

man i tried it all!!!!! i put like 2 cups of carbon in a reactor, 2 cups of rawaphos, the light's out for 72 hrs, raised ph from 8.1 to 8.4 and nothing touched them..... the h2o2 was the ticket... after i tried each thing for x amount of days i started the next so i knew what was going on and what did what.... i didn't want to do it all in a day and never really know how i beat them or shock my system for that matter....

 

[Troylee]

I thought this was very helpful in understanding what exactly they were.....

What is a Dinoflagellate?

Dinoflagellates are unicellular protists; most exhibit the following characteristics:

• They are planktonic.
  90% of all dinoflagellates are marine plankton.
• They are small.
  Although many of them are microscopic, the largest, Noctiluca, may be as large as 2 mm in diameter!
• They are motile.
  Dinoflagellates swim by means of two flagella, movable protein strands which propel the cell through the water. The longitudinal flagellum extends out from the sulcal groove of the hypotheca (posterior part of cell); when it whips back and forth it propels the cell forward. The flattened flagellum lies in the cingulum, the groove that extends around the equator of the cell. Its motion provides maneuvering and forward movement. As a result of the action of the two flagella the cell spirals as it moves.
• Many are covered by cellulose plates.
  The cell is surrounding by a series of membranes called the amphiesma. In "armored" species cellulose deposited between the membranes forms rigid plates called thecae. "Naked" cells lack thecae.
• Their chromosomes are always condensed.
  In addition, the DNA is not associated with histones as in other eukaryotic cells. Dinoflagellates contain a lot of DNA, which explains the large size of the nucleus. The metabolic requirements of supporting the large amount of DNA may explain the low growth rates of dinoflagellates compared to other unicellular protists.
• Not all dinoflagellates are photosynthetic.
  Many dinoflagellates are photosynthetic, manufacturing their own food using the energy from sunlight, and providing a food source for other organisms. The photosynthetic dinoflagellates are important primary producers in coastal waters.

Some photosynthetic dinoflagellates are symbiotic, living in the cells of their hosts, such as corals. Called zooxanthellae, they are found in many marine invertebrates, including sponges, corals, jellyfish, and flatworms, as well as within protists, such as ciliates, foraminiferans, and colonial radiolarians.
Approximately half of all species are heterotrophic, eating other plankton, and sometimes each other, by snaring or stinging their prey. Non-photosynthetic species of dinoflagellates feed on diatoms or other protists (including other dinoflagellates); Noctiluca is large enough to eat zooplankton and fish eggs. Some species are parasites on algae, zooplankton, fish or other organisms.
Dinoflagellates are protists which have been classified using both the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature (ICBN) and the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN), approximately half living dinoflagellate species are autotrophs possessing chloroplasts and half are non-photosynthesising heterotrophs. It is now widely accepted that the ICBN should be used for their classification. Dinoflagellates and their cysts belong to the Division Pyrrhophyta (literally "fire plants"), Class Dinophycaea, the related Class Ebriophyceae (also in the Division Pyrrhophyta) includes the ebridians which have internal siliceous skeletons, are extant and have a fossil record beginning in the Palaeocene. An important point to remember about dinoflagellates is that the vast majority of the fossil record consists of cysts (dinocysts), and only 10% of living dinoflagellates are known to produce cysts. Dinoflagellates are microscopic, (usually) unicellular, flagellated, often photosynthetic protists, commonly regarded as "algae" (Division Dinoflagellata).
Dinoflagellates possess two flagella, one (the transverse flagellum) may be contained in a groove-like structure around the equator of the organism (the cingulum), providing forward motion and spin to the dinoflagellate, the other (the longitudinal flagellum) trailing behind providing little propulsive force, mainly acting as a rudder. Both flagella are inserted at the same point in the cell wall, by convention defining the ventral surface. This point is usually slightly depressed, and is termed the sulcus. In heterotrophic dinoflagellates (ones that eat other organisms), this is the point where a conical feeding structure, the peduncle, is projected in order to consume food. Another characteristic of the dinoflagellates is the wall composition and structure; early classification of the dinoflagellates was based on the presence (termed armored) or absence (termed unarmored) of a rigid outer cell covering (or theca). Evidence has since been found to suggest there is an intergradation between these types. The pattern (or tabulation) of armored plates which form the theca of the so-called armored forms is still a vital element of not only dinoflagellate classification but dinocyst classification as well. This is because the tabulation of a dinoflagellate may be reflected in the features of the cyst it produces (this is correctly referred to as paratabulation).

Reproduction

The most form of reproduction is asexual, where daughter cells form by simple mitosis and division of the cell. The daughter cells will be genetically identical to that of the original cell. The thecal plates may either be divided, or completely shed and then reformed. Under some conditions sexual reproduction may occur. Motile gametes are formed as a result of mitosis, because dinoflagellates are usually haploid. When two gametes fuse a motile planozygote may be formed.
Range

Dinoflagellates are considered to be amongst the most primitive of the eukaryotes. The earliest continuous record of dinocysts comes from mid Triassic age deposits found in Australia, while the very earliest recorded fossils with dinocyst affinities are from Silurian strata. It is thought that the earliest dinoflagellates may not have produced cysts, or they produced fossilisable cysts which are not recognized as such. It should be remembered that what are classified as acritarchs (common in Palaeozoic rocks) may actually be dinoflagellate cysts. Because of the complex multi-stage life cycle of modern dinoflagellates and their known ability to evolve from non-cyst forming strategies to cyst forming strategies, it is almost impossible to reproduce dinoflagellate/dinocyst evolutionary history. In terms of an overall trend of dinocyst species diversity there is a steep increase during the Jurassic and early Cretaceous, reaching a peak in the mid Cretaceous. A sharp decline occurred from the mid Cretaceous followed by an equally sharp increase reaching another peak during the Maastrichtian. From the Maastrichtian to the late Palaeocene diversity declined again followed by another increase until the early Eocene. From then to the present diversity has steadily declined to a level perhaps one third that of the peaks reached during the Cretaceous.
Classification

In 1993 Fensome and Taylor linked dinoflagellates to their cysts emphasizing the tabulation/paratabulation in their classification. Dinoflagellates are classified as Protists within the division Dinoflagellata, most of the members of this division are charcterised by having, during at least one part of their life cycle, a motile stage with two dissimilar flagella. Two subdivisions are recognized, of which the Dinokaryota possess a dinokaryon (the typical dinoflagellate nucleus) during at least part of their life cycle. Within the Dinokaryota the class Dinophyceae encompasses taxa with a permanent dinokaryon and contains all known fossils (though for the fossils, of course, the relationship is assessed by means other than the character of the nucleus). Within the Dinophyceae three subclasses are palaeontologicaly important, the Gymnodinophycidae, the Peridiniphycidae and the Dinophysiphycidae. Within the subclass Peridiniphycidae the orders Gonyaulacales and Peridiniales contain most of the known fossil dinoflagellates.

 

[Troylee]

Biology

The majority of dinoflagellate species are marine, and together with coccolithophores and diatoms they make up the most important primary producers in the oceans. Dinoflagellates are also common in freshwater lakes, rivers and bogs and can occur in blooms of sufficient concentration to discolor the water, producing what are known as "red tides". Dinoflagellates are commonly studied during their motile, planktonic stage; cyst-forming dinoflagellates are known from all oceanic habitats but they dominate in shallow coastal waters where the cysts may seed oceanic populations. The distribution of dinocysts may follow patterns based on latitude, temperature, salinity, water depth, and ocean circulation systems.
The cytoplasm of dinoflagellates contains typical eukaryotic organelles including; rough and smooth endoplasmic reticulum, Golgi apparatus, mitochondria, lipid and starch grains, food vacuoles etc. It may also contain one or several distinctive organelles which include:

• The pusule which has been suggested may function in osmoregulation, waste disposal, flotation or nutrition.
• Light sensitive organelles, the eyespot and more complex ocellus.
• Chloroplasts bounded by three rather than the usual two membranes, which has led to suggestions that the chloroplasts in dinoflagellates were originally symbiotic algae.
• The nucleus which is large and contains a prominent nucleolus.

During at least part of their life cycle most dinoflagellates have two dissimilar flagella, in some forms both appearing from the anterior end and from the ventral surface but in most cases one encircling it the other trailing it.
Dinoflagellates exhibit a variety of feeding strategies; about half are autotrophic, since dinoflagellates have a slower generation time than diatoms they tend to follow diatom blooms. The ability of dinoflagellates to migrate up and down through the water column means they can take advantage of increased nutrient levels at greater depths during the night and return closer to the surface in order to photosynthesize during the day. They may also be better adapted to take advantage of nutrients at frontal systems due to their mobility. Heterotrophic dinoflagellates are known to feed on algae (including other dinoflagellates) eggs and larvae of other marine plankton.

 

[Captain Nemo]

Well I have been building up to it, slowly but surely. added each one a couple days apart. I turned on the actinics last night and sand was super clean!!! But waiting one more day just to be safe. still some stuff on the rock around my corals....grrrrr.....

 

[Troylee]

The life cycle of dinoflagellates is multi-staged. Evitt (1985) recognised a six stage cycle in peridiniales dinoflagellates.

1. During periods favoured by rapid growth and population expansion, vegetative fission dominates yielding motile haploid schizonts.
2. At an unknown trigger, the schizonts act as gametes and pair up and fuse to form diploid zygotes. One or more theca may be lost in the process.
3. The diploid zygote constructs a new theca and resumes its motility as a planozygote.
4. In several species the zygote theca becomes much thicker and considerably larger than the vegetative theca. Its outline becomes less regular, the protoplast becomes granular and reddish bodies are visible within it, the activity level decreases and after as many as fifteen days the flagella are lost, the cell is then termed a hypnozygote. The protoplast shrinks pulling away from the theca and eventually one or two membranes form a new cyst wall. The thecal plates then break apart or are decayed and the completed cyst is exposed.
5. The hypnozygote or resting cyst then behaves as a sedimentary particle and settles to the sea floor.

Following a period of obligate dormancy the protoplast excysts (typically through an archaeopyle), and the cycle closes as meiotic division again produces haploid, thecate, motile cells. In laboratories sexual reproduction may be induced by nutrient, temperature or light reduction. In nature sexual reproduction is known to occur in late summer and autumn and in the late stages of blooms.

Red Tides

Red tides are conditions when a dinoflagellate population increases to huge numbers. This "bloom" may be caused by nutrient and hydrographic conditions, although the environmental conditions which result in red tides are not completely understood. The water is discolored red or brown due to the presence of dinoflagellate cells numbering up to 20 million cells per liter. Red tides are composed primarily of one species of dinoflagellate which has been rapidly growing.
Some red tides are luminescent; check out the bioluminescence stimulated in breaking waves during the May 1997 Gonyaulax polyedra red tide in San Diego. A synopsis of the putative mechanisms responsible for this red tides is kindly provided by Prof. Wolfgang Burger, Interim Director of SIO:

"My understanding is this: if, after an upwelling or mixing event (storm?) there is plenty of sunshine, which warms the water and makes for stable stratification, conditions are right for a bloom. If, in addition, Gonyaulax cysts waiting around on the bottom have been stirred up into the water, and have by some means (change in temperature? light?) detected that the time is good for popping open, sufficient seeds are released to start the process. Rapid reproduction ensues (by cell division; these are unicellular organisms) and crowds out everything else, by taking away the light (the water was brown!) and perhaps also by chemical means."​

Some both not all red tides are toxic. In toxic red tides, the dinoflagellates produce a chemical which acts as a neurotoxin in other animals. When the dinoflagellates are ingested by shellfish, for example, the chemicals accumulate in the shellfish tissue in high enough levels to cause serious neurological affects in birds, animals, or people which ingest the shellfish.
The are several types of neurotoxins produced by dinoflagellates. These chemicals may affect nerve action by interfering with the movement of ions across cell membranes, thus affecting muscle activity. The toxin saxitoxin, produced by Protogonyaulax catanella off the west coast of North America, and Gessnerium monilatum off the east coast, accumulates in shellfish. Eating contaminated shellfish causes paralytic shellfish poisoning (PSP), while ciguatera is caused by eating contaminated fish. The worst cases of PSP result in respiratory failure and death within 12 hours. Another toxin which accumulates in shellfish is brevitoxin, produced by the dinoflagellate Ptychodiscus brevis. A toxin produced by the dinoflagellate Dinophysis causes diarrhetic shellfish poisoning (DSP), which results in digestive upset but which is not fatal.
What is Bioluminescence?

Bioluminescence is the production of light by living organisms through an internal chemical reaction. Bioluminescence is found among some insects, mollusks, fish, ctenophores (comb jellies) and annelid worms. Some of the most dramatic light-producing creatures are found in marine environments. Bioluminescence should not be confused with fluorescence, in which light from an outside source is stored and re-emitted. The production of light in bioluminescent organisms results from the conversion of chemical energy to light energy. Organisms use their luminescence in different ways; dinoflagellates, a group of marine algae, produce light only when disturbed, while other animals use their light to communicate or find prey.
There are a number of natural and human-made processes that create light. Chemiluminescence is a broader set of light producing chemical reactions of which bioluminescence is just one. Certain types of chemicals when mixed together produce energy. This energy 'excites' other particles which vibrate and generate light. A chemiluminescent product known to many kayakers are Cylume light sticks. A thin glass vial containing hydrogen peroxide sits within a plastic tube containing a chemical called an ester and a fluorescent dye. When the vial is broken the hydrogen peroxide and ester release energy which excites the fluorescent dye and generates light. Bioluminescence is a form of chemiluminescence and, as the name implies, light produced within an organism.
Another type of light emitting process is fluorescence. This is where external energy (as opposed to internal chemical reactions) are absorbed by a fluorescent material and then immediately remitted. This is the central principle behind the operation of fluorescent light tubes. A form of fluorescence is phosphorescence which is where external energy is stored for longer periods of time and slowly reemitted. Watch faces and glow-in-the-dark toys use phosphorescent materials. Some animals and plants are phosphorescent as opposed to being bioluminescent.
Which Organisms are Bioluminescent?

Bioluminescence is primarily a marine phenomenon. It has been observed in over 700 marine genera ranging from bacteria through to fish, molluscs (such as squid), sponges, jellyfish, echinoderms (starfish family) and crustaceans (crabs and the like). A common myth is that bioluminescence mostly comes from bacteria. In fact, a vast range of single-celled plankton, zoo and gelatinous plankton are bioluminescent. The 'sparks' flying off your paddle is most probably plankton such as copeopods or dinoflagellates. The glowing 'trails' in your wake are billions of scared, hungry or over-sexed plankton (more on this later). Interestingly there are almost no freshwater bioluminescent organisms. Land based bioluminescent organisms include some insects (such as fireflies), fungi, worms ('glow worms'), and some terrestrial micro-organisms.
How is Light Made?

All light in the universe comes from the same basic process. When an electron absorbs energy, it moves to a higher orbit. When the electron falls back down to a lower energy state, a packet of energy, known as a photon, is released. Electrons can get excited in a number of different ways. In the sun, a candle flame or an incandescent light bulb, the electrons are thermally excited, which is why we tend to associate heat and light. In bioluminescence the electrons are excited by a very efficient chemical reaction that generates no heat at all. This is why bioluminescence is sometimes called cold light. This light comes from little packages of chemicals that are spread throughout the cell. This cell gets the energy to make these chemicals from the sun. Like many dinoflagellates it is photosynthetic. There are many bioluminescent dinoflagellates which are not photosynthetic and they get the energy needed to synthesize their chemicals by eating other, smaller plankton. Dinoflagellates are the most common source of brilliant bioluminescence in surface waters.
As mentioned above, bioluminescence results from light-producing chemical reactions. The group of chemicals involved are broadly termed luciferins. Light is produced by a series of oxidation reactions set off by a catalyst called luciferase (a catalyst is chemical accelerant that speeds up reactions). Luciferin is oxidised by luciferase to produce energy, oxygen, oxyluciferin and light. How plants and animals create luciferins varies. Some secrete it from special glands. 'Fresh' luciferin must be captured in the diet or synthesised internally.
Larger animals such as squid and fish have specialized light organs called photophores (photo = 'light' and phore = 'bearing') which are wart or blister-like structures packed full of bioluminescent bacteria. When the animal wants to generate light they 'stir' or stimulate the bacteria in the photophore and hey presto - instant light!

 

[Troylee]

Why Make Light at All?

At the end of the day no-one can definitively say why some organisms generate light. Taking a Darwinian perspective, if being bioluminescent was hugely advantageous and ensured one's survival then all plants and animals would be bioluminescent. However, mariners and scientists have come up with some interesting ideas as to why you might want to glow in the dark:

• Defense: Blasting your attacker with light will help you to escape. Some molluscs, worms and squid emit a cloud of luminous slime when attacked. Interestingly air forces use a similar tactic by dropping brilliant flares when flying low over enemy territory to dazzle anti-aircraft gunners and heat-seeking missiles.
• Offence: Similar to defense, blinding potential prey will improve your chance of getting a meal. Some deep-sea fish have photophores which can be uncovered by flaps of skin so they can be used like a torch.
• Camouflage: Deep-sea fish and squid may adjust the intensity of light they emit to prevent them being silhouetted against a darker or lighter background
• Communication: Different patterns, sequences and colors of photophores can identify what species you are, your gender, territoriality, mating status, etc. This ability would be vital in low light environments such as nocturnal or deep-sea species.

The real reason is probably a combination of the above — and a couple we haven't dreamed up!
Where Bioluminescence is Found

Bioluminescent plankton occur in all the world's oceans. The prevalence of plankton in coastal waters and the ocean results from vastly complex interplays between temperature, currents, wind, location of food sources, nutrients, etc. As sea (and therefore living) conditions change so do the appearance of bioluminescence. For example, 'milk seas' (where large expanses of the sea 'glows') is a result of mass spawning of bioluminescent plankton triggered by a combination of ideal sea temperature and nutrients. 'Red tides' are another result of these types of ideal breeding conditions. Distribution of bioluminescent plankton also varies vertically through the water column. Plankton will congregate or actively migrate between layers of water with different temperature or nutrient load.

 

[Troylee]

Well I have been building up to it, slowly but surely. added each one a couple days apart. I turned on the actinics last night and sand was super clean!!! But waiting one more day just to be safe. still some stuff on the rock around my corals....grrrrr.....

i know your feeling!!!!! i had a few sps pieces loosing flesh from the irritation of the boogers and once a little spot of flesh was missing on a tip the dino's stuck to that every day.... i thought i was gonna lose my new red dragon frag from the irritation.....

 

[zoeyo5]

did you leave your skimmer running while dosing or running carbon?

 

[Troylee]

did you leave your skimmer running while dosing or running carbon?

always... my skimmer runs 24hrs a day everyday.... besides when i nuke my tank with interceptor twice a year.....

 

[SunnyX]

Great info! I will have to look into Peroxide.

 

[bkss709]

I have the same thing going on in my tank but not as bad as Troylee but i am going to try it today and will start with 1 mil per 10 gallons of tank water and see what happens i hope it works. I have been before this trying to keep my PH high buy adding Kalk all night and still have this problem so Hydrogen Peroxide it is and will keep everyone here updated on my progress to.

 

[Troylee]

Nice!!! Keep us updated... I'm hoping I wasn't just the
Only one who got lucky with this lol... It would really cool if it's a cure...

 

[Ricordea]

I wanted to hitch a ride on this thread,to see the finally results here.I'm wondering with the usage Hydrogen Peroxide does it have any effects on PO4 in our system?Can it be replaced than running GFO.Because algae always seems to attatched to PO4 LEVELS.

 

[bkss709]

I no this was the perfect time for you to post this and i hope it is a cure to. I now that my Zoa's hate this Dino if any Dino is on any Polyps they will not open up at all.

Nice!!! Keep us updated... I'm hoping I wasn't just the
Only one who got lucky with this lol... It would really cool if it's a cure...