Documenting my fight with Dino's

[Miller535]

So after hooking up the uv, I started running my lights on a more normal schedule again. The sand bed at least as of today (4-21) looks clean and clear. But my rocks are starting to quickly grow some kind of red algae. Don't know if dinos or cyano. I should probably look at it under the microscope. Does anyone know the best way to do this? Do I just scrape off a piece off of the rocks and put it on a slide? Or is there another method?

 

[dwest]

Red is usually not dino. But agree, scope it. I suck up some goop with a pipet, then drop a couple drops on a slide. then I put another slide over the first.

 

[Miller535]

OK, probably will be the weekend until I get a chance to do that. But here's a couple of pictures under white lights

 

[Miller535]

2 more

 

[JCTReefer]

Microscope finally came in. This is what I discovered. Large cell and possible small cell Amphidinium. And not sure what else. Possible coolia? I’ve been dealing with this for a while now. Pulled most of the sand bed. po4 and no3 have been at acceptable ranges for a while now. Not sure what the next step is. I did find some diatoms in the mix also. That’s a good thing!

 

[JCTReefer]

Sorry, posted in wrong thread!!!! Darn it!!!!!

 

[Miller535]

Sorry, posted in wrong thread!!!! Darn it!!!!!

It's ok, I would say without a doubt that one is small cell Amphidinium, and I think that is coolia is the stills. You are likely like mine any have many things going on. I have small and large cell Amphidinium, cyano, and diatoms. As well as Nematodes, and other odd things. The Nematode in mine was crazy looking. I have a video of it posted on this thread.

 

[JCTReefer]

It's ok, I would say without a doubt that one is small cell Amphidinium, and I think that is coolia is the stills. You are likely like mine any have many things going on. I have small and large cell Amphidinium, cyano, and diatoms. As well as Nematodes, and other odd things. The Nematode in mine was crazy looking. I have a video of it posted on this thread.

Thanks for your reply on my post! That’s exactly what Taricha said also on the i.d!!!

 

[Miller535]

After 5 days of running, it is still early to say much about the UV. A few things I have noticed, the first is the color of the stuff in the neck of my skimmer is a very different color then normal. Thicker and almost a dark yellow with maybe a slight red/brown color to it. Maybe this is my skimmer skimming out the things the UV is kiining, or maybe it's the dinos dying from other things I have done, or maybe a combination? I do not know. But I think it worth mentioning. second, I do not see any stringy algae in the tank. The glass is mostly clean, but does has some film algae on it, which I think is a good thing. The one bad thing, what I THINK is cyano is starting to cover my rocks. Sand bed is staying clean, and glass is other then film. but the rocks are not. All in all, I would say the UV has definitely had a impact. Especially on the sand bed.

 

[Miller535]

Tomorrow I plan on pulling the microscope out, and trying to look at a sample from the rocks. I am pretty certain that there is cyano there, but would like to confirm it, and see if there is maybe a different type of dino on the rock then what was on the sand.

 

[Mark]

After 5 days of running, it is still early to say much about the UV. A few things I have noticed, the first is the color of the stuff in the neck of my skimmer is a very different color then normal. Thicker and almost a dark yellow with maybe a slight red/brown color to it. Maybe this is my skimmer skimming out the things the UV is kiining, or maybe it's the dinos dying from other things I have done, or maybe a combination? I do not know. But I think it worth mentioning. second, I do not see any stringy algae in the tank. The glass is mostly clean, but does has some film algae on it, which I think is a good thing. The one bad thing, what I THINK is cyano is starting to cover my rocks. Sand bed is staying clean, and glass is other then film. but the rocks are not. All in all, I would say the UV has definitely had a impact. Especially on the sand bed.

Yeah, if your nitrates bottomed out, then you gave Dinos and Cyano the competitive advantage. Once you installed the UV, you might be shifting the competitive advantage to Cyano over Dino's. The reverse is also shown when folks dose chemi-clean in tanks where nitrates have bottomed out. Lots of reports of users getting Dino's after treating tank for Cyano. I'd keep dosing Nitrates if you can to slowly shift the advantage back to traditional algae and corals. I wouldn't dose any bacterial additive, as they will just contribute to nitrate depletion. I'd also run some cuprisorb to rule out excess iron or other metals and not run GFO. Shifting the dominance of nutrient consumers happens slowly I think.

 

[Miller535]

Yeah, if your nitrates bottomed out, then you gave Dinos and Cyano the competitive advantage. Once you installed the UV, you might be shifting the competitive advantage to Cyano over Dino's. The reverse is also shown when folks dose chemi-clean in tanks where nitrates have bottomed out. Lots of reports of users getting Dino's after treating tank for Cyano. I'd keep dosing Nitrates if you can to slowly shift the advantage back to traditional algae and corals. I wouldn't dose any bacterial additive, as they will just contribute to nitrate depletion. I'd also run some cuprisorb to rule out excess iron or other metals and not run GFO. Shifting the dominance of nutrient consumers happens slowly I think.

I do think there is a shift happening where other forms of algae are starting to actually compete. So far, I have been managing to keep my Nitrates around 6, and Phosphates at .03

I have been dosing the low nutrient and maintenance dose of MB7. Although I skipped it last weekend because I had just got the UV running and did not want to turn it off at all to dose. But probably will resume this weekend.

I can definitely rule out Iron and heavy metals as I just got back a Triton ICP test today.

I have been doing every other week water changes, to no ill effect that I can see. I think my next plan of attack, is I am going to order pods and phyto from ALgae barn.

 

[Miller535]

I purchased the 48oz Phyto and pods pack from algae barn.

Another thing worth noting is that I was also battling an issue with heavy metals in my tank. That and I believe the toxicity of my dinos (but mostly the metals especially the copper) killed every single invert in my tank. With the exception of one conch. I just got back my ICP results today, and for the 3rd month in a row my metals are good. So I also ordered a new CUC package from live aquaria today. So, this should help too.

 

[Miller535]

So I took a scraping off of my rock, and some higher areas of my tank. Because those are the only areas currently with algae. I definitely see dinos, a few kinds, I am perplexed at what the big thing is moving in the video. Anyone know? Can someone say what kind of Dino they see? @taricha ?

 

[Miller535]

Things are going well still. On Sunday I did a 20 gallon water change and vacuumed the sand while I did this. I had not performed a water change in 2 weeks, or touched the sand bed since. The only thing on the sand was the very lightest dusting of diatoms. I actually even saw some green algae growing in places in the top half of the tank. My nitrates are at 4ppm, I will dose if they drop any lower then this. My Phosphates have fallen to .02ppm. I dosed them back up to .04ppm. I also dosed the maintenance dose of MB7. The UV seems to have been extremely efficient at clearing up the dinos out of my sand, and even the diatoms to a large extent. Even seems to be keeping the cyano off of the sand. The glass is staying really clean too. My rock on the other hand still has some cyano, and I believe some different kinds of dinos then the sand did. But I do have a clean up crew coming this week from live aquaria, and pods and phyto coming from algae barn. I am seeing positive results, and I am hopeful.

 

[Miller535]

Every tank is different, and has different types of dino. But in my tank it SEEMS like the sweet spot for Nutrients is NO3 4-10ppm, and PO4 .03-.06ppm.

 

[sh@rkB@it]

Every tank is different, and has different types of dino. But in my tank it SEEMS like the sweet spot for Nutrients is NO3 4-10ppm, and PO4 .03-.06ppm.

Totally agree that every tank is different. I used to chase ultra low nutrient levels but not anymore.

I got dinos when my NO3 and PO4 bottomed out while dealing with bubble algae. I brought up my NO3 to ~5ppm and PO4 ~.03 by dosing KNO3 and KH2PO4 but the dinos would not go away(2 months). Then I started dosing more and eventually got my NO3 up to nearly 40ppm and my PO4 up to ~.20ppm. I also blasted my rocks every morning before the lights came on with the turkey baster. I vacuum all the detritus(bare bottom) into a filter sock weekly and poured the water back into the tank. I only changed the water(10%) every two weeks. I wanted the water to get dirtier to help keep the NO3 and PO4 up. I also dosed 1/2 of recommended dosage of Vibrant too during this period.

I am about 4 weeks into this regimen and have noticed a significant reduction in dinos. I still have a little but you really have to look closely. I have not noticed any harm in higher NO3 and PO4 in my tank as far as algae or coral health. I am going to let my NO3 and PO4 fall back down a little, maybe shoot for 20ppm NO3 and .15ppm PO4. Going to feed a lot more and keep an eye on the tank and see where this elevated NO3 and PO4 goes.

 

[Miller535]

Totally agree that every tank is different. I used to chase ultra low nutrient levels but not anymore.

I got dinos when my NO3 and PO4 bottomed out while dealing with bubble algae. I brought up my NO3 to ~5ppm and PO4 ~.03 by dosing KNO3 and KH2PO4 but the dinos would not go away(2 months). Then I started dosing more and eventually got my NO3 up to nearly 40ppm and my PO4 up to ~.20ppm. I also blasted my rocks every morning before the lights came on with the turkey baster. I vacuum all the detritus(bare bottom) into a filter sock weekly and poured the water back into the tank. I only changed the water(10%) every two weeks. I wanted the water to get dirtier to help keep the NO3 and PO4 up. I also dosed 1/2 of recommended dosage of Vibrant too during this period.

I am about 4 weeks into this regimen and have noticed a significant reduction in dinos. I still have a little but you really have to look closely. I have not noticed any harm in higher NO3 and PO4 in my tank as far as algae or coral health. I am going to let my NO3 and PO4 fall back down a little, maybe shoot for 20ppm NO3 and .15ppm PO4. Going to feed a lot more and keep an eye on the tank and see where this elevated NO3 and PO4 goes.

I am glad you are making headway. I would still recommend getting a microscope. I bought like a $35 one on amazon. Turns out I had one kind of dino on my sandbed and another on my rocks. UV basically eliminated the dino on the sand, I am still working through the dinos on the rocks, but it's much better. Mostly now I am dealing with cyano I think.

 

[Clownreef]

I just read 7 pages of lots of water changes and buying microscopes and lots of extra work. How much have you spent?

...what’s wrong with peroxide? I just did 6 doses on my tank full of SPS and got rid of them. I fed heavier, turned off the skimmer, removed charcoal, turned off algae scrubber. I spent $2.50. My water is crystal clear, sand and rocks.

didn’t lose a single animal.

 

[Miller535]

I just read 7 pages of lots of water changes and buying microscopes and lots of extra work. How much have you spent?

...what’s wrong with peroxide? I just did 6 doses on my tank full of SPS and got rid of them. I fed heavier, turned off the skimmer, removed charcoal, turned off algae scrubber. I spent $2.50. My water is crystal clear, sand and rocks.

didn’t lose a single animal.

Here is the thing, peroxide only works on certain dinos. There are many different types. It does not work on the type I had. If you read this whole thread I started off having a issue with copper from a rusted part in my tank that required water changes. After that I went back to normal water changes. I also bottomed out my NO3 and PO4 so dosing a little was necessary but certainly not expensive. The microscope was like $35 I think? The type I have respond best to UV. Which I think I paid $280 for. Your response seems to suggest that you think that there is one type of dinos, and that they can all be eliminated the same. When in reality there are many kinds, and each tank acquired them differently, and as such require different methods of removing them.


Here is a article I literally just posted in the algae forum. You will see more of what I am talking about.

Dinoflagelados en el acuario marino. ¿qué son y cómo combatirlos? - Blog Coral Wonders

Los dinoflagelados, una de los principales amenazas en nuestros acuarios. Descubre lo que son y aprende a controlarlos manteniendo el acuario limpio y seguro.

blog.coralwonders.com