Explain why Roberto can break the SPS rules and succeed?

zatch

Valuable Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
1,632
Reaction score
2,687
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Denver
He clearly made a deal with the devil and sold his soul for perpetual SPS success.
The devil went down to São Paulo, he was looking for a frag tank to steal….

311A07C5-1244-4E5C-B02E-CB701FAF69A8.gif
 
REEFTIDE

brahm

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
380
Reaction score
210
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Mammoth Lakes,Ca
His corals are definitely on the paler side. Believe he said he feeds pellets and flakes and changes 15% a month.. Doesn’t seem to have a ton of fish either. I’d lean more towards him being a very light feeder. I’ve had sps tanks with 1 or 2 fish that ran similar (never lasted long for me as I like fish in my tanks) but also had a buddy with an amazing wall to wall sps tank way back in the days and he had like 4 damsels in a 90. Fed pellets now and then ran a calcium reactor, skimmer, insane high flow , and 400w halides. He grew corals like no other heck had so little space left he would hang frags from strings to grow them out.
 

PBar

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
212
Reaction score
238
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
BE
Hello!
In the past, back in Brazil, I talked a few times with Denadai. Good hand for acros already for many years.

Currently , I have a similar tank style.… and I also don‘t have any coraline algae.
In my case, it rather makes sense:
-Dry rock
-No plugs! All sps bases were cut out.
-Zero nitrate and phosphates (Zeovit, till last month)

However, I would expect that coraline algae would enter in my tank via a snail or hermit crab….
Up to now (18 months) zero :(

I clean the glass and the bottom every 5 to 7 days… but really not much to clean.
Again, it is 100 gal with 3x Tunze, 4x MP40, 2x Nero3… flow takes care of it.

Picture from a few months ago… still interested in buying some coraline algae! :)

031D0A6E-DA49-4BB8-863C-48D2B17AC476.jpeg
 
Tidal Gardens January 29th YouTube Live Show

brahm

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
380
Reaction score
210
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Mammoth Lakes,Ca
Hello!
In the past, back in Brazil, I talked a few times with Denadai. Good hand for acros already for many years.

Currently , I have a similar tank style.… and I also don‘t have any coraline algae.
In my case, it rather makes sense:
-Dry rock
-No plugs! All sps bases were cut out.
-Zero nitrate and phosphates (Zeovit, till last month)

However, I would expect that coraline algae would enter in my tank via a snail or hermit crab….
Up to now (18 months) zero :(

I clean the glass and the bottom every 5 to 7 days… but really not much to clean.
Again, it is 100 gal with 3x Tunze, 4x MP40, 2x Nero3… flow takes care of it.

Picture from a few months ago… still interested in buying some coraline algae! :)

031D0A6E-DA49-4BB8-863C-48D2B17AC476.jpeg
Looks great, how much do you feed daily if you don’t mind? And the dry rock thing has gotten me thinking as I too set up all my older tanks with dry rock (Fiji premium dry) and had no crazy issues like folks today (at least in the states) are having with current dry rock. It’s starting to make me question if there is some commonality to the source of the rock and the problems resulting from it.

I think a lot of folks underestimate the benefits of going species specific (or limits of variety) and they are struggling with the fear of going low nutrients due to Dinos and have forgotten the benefits of going low nutrients for coral growth. You never see people mention how phosphates inhibit calcification anymore. As a middle of the road guy I prefer to feed a little more and have dark colours but it seems we have swung from one extreme to the other. It’s great to see examples like this to show people it’s not all or none
 
Last edited:

Muffin87

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 12, 2019
Messages
109
Reaction score
53
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Why didn’t his tank get the ugly stage?
BRS showed u can use vibrant to skip the ugly phase.
Some people manage to use vibrant every 2 wks while running a refugium.

Would be good to know what bacterial additive he used to cycle the tank or how many corals he introduced.
Id assume that the more corals u introduce the more likely you are to achieve some bacterial diversity.
 

brahm

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
380
Reaction score
210
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Mammoth Lakes,Ca
BRS showed u can use vibrant to skip the ugly phase.
Some people manage to use vibrant every 2 wks while running a refugium.

Would be good to know what bacterial additive he used to cycle the tank or how many corals he introduced.
Id assume that the more corals u introduce the more likely you are to achieve some bacterial
If I only saw his tank and didn’t read the thread I’d go with zeobac, zeostart. These tanks definitely have the zeovit feel to them. But I believe he stated nothing. As I said early I’d wager parts of the system cured or came from a preexisting setup and he then continued to run it Ulns,
 

PBar

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
212
Reaction score
238
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
BE
Hi brahm,
Indeed and I agree.
This is my first tank using dry rocks (mix of Marco rocks and a Dutch brand)
I only observed that, by using rocks plus bare bottom, things were slower as compared to my past tanks with life rock.

Regarding the nutrients, @jda is already probably getting tired of pointing out :)
I would suggest everyone to read his notes and then check the size of the fishes from Denadai in his tank (vs tank size). They are not small!

I’m moving away now from Zeovit (just because I’m trying to simplify things)
Now, I’m pretty much feeding a lot the fishes with artemia, mysis, flakes… 4x per day.
 
BRS

brahm

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
380
Reaction score
210
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Mammoth Lakes,Ca
Hi brahm,
Indeed and I agree.
This is my first tank using dry rocks (mix of Marco rocks and a Dutch brand)
I only observed that, by using rocks plus bare bottom, things were slower as compared to my past tanks with life rock.

Regarding the nutrients, @jda is already probably getting tired of pointing out :)
I would suggest everyone to read his notes and then check the size of the fishes from Denadai in his tank (vs tank size). They are not small!

I’m moving away now from Zeovit (just because I’m trying to simplify things)
Now, I’m pretty much feeding a lot the fishes with artemia, mysis, flakes… 4x per day.
What do you consider a lot? 4x a day to some might be 5 cubes 4 times a day or a pinch and a cube of a frozen? You are also using zeo (ie Carbon dosing) which should help with the excess waste, he is saying he is not.

I'm not sure what you mean in regards to nutrients I don't follow jda's posts (no offense) unless we are in a specific conversation together.
 

brahm

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
380
Reaction score
210
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Mammoth Lakes,Ca
Read this article: https://fragbox.ca/secret-keeping-acropora-sps/

I think it pretty much SPS keeping. Let me know your thoughts.
I dunno about that article talks about phosphates at 1.0 :rolleyes: Keeping your DKH at 7.5 which is OK but I wouldn't recommend it, covers some of the basics like stability but also rambles and repeats itself a lot, and doesn't really go into details about actual success or what any of the specifics mean ie what is strong lightings and flow. I'm always suspicious when all the photos are stolen. Also no talk of PH, or any other water chemistry at all, or pests. I personally wouldn't send anyone to that article (sorry if it's yours)
 
OP
Miami Reef

Miami Reef

2500 Club Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
3,750
Reaction score
3,018
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Miami
I dunno about that article talks about phosphates at 1.0 :rolleyes: Keeping your DKH at 7.5 which is OK but I wouldn't recommend it, covers some of the basics like stability but also rambles and repeats itself a lot, and doesn't really go into details about actual success or what any of the specifics mean ie what is strong lightings and flow. I'm always suspicious when all the photos are stolen. Also no talk of PH, or any other water chemistry at all, or pests. I personally wouldn't send anyone to that article (sorry if it's yours)
Not my article. But it’s often true that alk stability is very important.
 

Joe462

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
302
Reaction score
698
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Someone explain this wild phenomenon to me.

This is @Roberto Denadai ‘s tank: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-new-sps-tank.674002/

He started his tank with dry rocks and added SPS corals (acropora) to his tank within that month.

He runs LED’s and T5’s. High flow. Alk 7-8dkh phosphates 0.01ppm Nitrates 0ppm.

My questions:

Why didn’t his tank get the ugly stage?

How was he able to keep the acros alive in a new tank?

Why doesn’t get dinos in his tank with low nutrients?

I think he runs a skimmer and refugium as well. Mainly feeds corals by feeding the fish. It’s not his first tank either! He has repeatable success.
there are rules for keeping SPS? I would say there are recommendations or suggestions.

I started my tank with dry rock, and like two pieces of live rock (that also started out as dry rock) from my other tank. I put acros in the tank after a month, i did get a lot of algae for a while, i guess thats an ugly phase, but then it went away no big deal. If he didn't get an ugly phase, sometimes that happens, especially if dude has done this before and knows what he is doing. There is no inherint reason why you have to wait a long time to put certain things in your tank. if the tank meets the needed requirements of the animal, it will do fine. Many new tanks aren't very stable so the recommendation is not to put sps in them, but if you can keep it stable they will be fine.
a lot of the things you are saying seem pretty normal to me. I don't like ultra low nutrients, but there are a lot of ways to skin a cat.
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

brahm

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
380
Reaction score
210
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Mammoth Lakes,Ca
Did I ever imply that was the case?
I'm sorry, I don't follow then. What is the point you are trying to make? The question at a hand is what is it that this person seems to be doing out of the (current) norm that allows his system to work. I don't believe anyone at any point is advocating that an unstable DKH is a good thing.

You asked what folks thought, I thought it was a pretty lackluster article that doesn't offer a lot of value in regards to what is needed to be successful with SPS.
 
OP
Miami Reef

Miami Reef

2500 Club Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
3,750
Reaction score
3,018
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Miami
I'm sorry, I don't follow then. What is the point you are trying to make? The question at a hand is what is it that this person seems to be doing out of the (current) norm that allows his system to work. I don't believe anyone at any point is advocating that an unstable DKH is a good thing.

You asked what folks thought, I thought it was a pretty lackluster article that doesn't offer a lot of value in regards to what is needed to be successful with SPS.
I found it pretty helpful myself, especially the part that suggested to keep alk near sea water levels. That part was a eureka moment for me.
 

brahm

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
380
Reaction score
210
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Mammoth Lakes,Ca
I found it pretty helpful myself, especially the part that suggested to keep alk near sea water levels. That part was a eureka moment for me.
I agree to keep your alk lower than what they would recommend way back when 11+ madness is a good thing (more so if your carbon dosing). But I'm leary of running my alk too low as if things are off or you have a slight swing you end up in the danger zone. I shoot for 8.5 end up around 8.8-9. Figure if I'm off by as much as 1dkh for whatever reason I'll be alright.

Out of curiosity what were you running before and what did you find the effect of changing it to 7.5 was? Were you stable (whatever number you were running before) and then reduced or did you reduce and stabilize?

Personally, if I lived in Miami I'd be running my tank with as much NSW as I could!
 
OP
Miami Reef

Miami Reef

2500 Club Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
3,750
Reaction score
3,018
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Miami
I agree to keep your alk lower than what they would recommend way back when 11+ madness is a good thing (more so if your carbon dosing). But I'm leary of running my alk too low as if things are off or you have a slight swing you end up in the danger zone. I shoot for 8.5 end up around 8.8-9. Figure if I'm off by as much as 1dkh for whatever reason I'll be alright.

Out of curiosity what were you running before and what did you find the effect of changing it to 7.5 was? Were you stable (whatever number you were running before) and then reduced or did you reduce and stabilize?

Personally, if I lived in Miami I'd be running my tank with as much NSW as I could!
I had a mixed reef a few months ago (starting again soon!)

I kept mainly LPS, easier SPS, clams. They mostly did fine. But when I added acropora from tidal gardens they all had RTN within that month.

Back a few months ago I watched a BRS video that showed SPS grew faster with elevated alk and calcium. I kept it around 10-11dkh but it wasn’t very stable.


@brahm I used to use pure NSW but I had to stop many months ago because I didn’t want to introduce ich into my tank. :(

This was before having the acros. In this new build I’m hoping keeping close to NSW + keeping it as stable as possible will bring me much better success.
 
Orphek OR3 reef aquarium LED lighting

What do you use?

  • Gfo

    Votes: 23 6.4%
  • Carbon

    Votes: 133 36.9%
  • Carbon & GFO

    Votes: 117 32.5%
  • Water changes

    Votes: 245 68.1%
Reef Kinetics
Top