External Refugium setup and thoughts

[amahairas]

Im deciding on whether or not I want to set up a refugium. Really the decision is on how I want to set it up. I love the mandarian Goby (who doesn't) and feel like the best way to keep one is with a fuge. I had one for 2 years previously, but had to move and tear down the tank and sold him. I have since restarted the tank, but this was after the tank and rock set dry for 4 years so my copious amounts of pods are gone. I didn't have a fuge before but had tons of rock and I was worried he'd eat them out quickly, but they kept up with his diet and he was thriving. This time around I don't want to wait years for the pod population to be that strong in the tank before I add him. Previously you couldn't look at the tank without seeing them crawling on the rocks, sand, and glass. SOO I've decided to add a fuge this time around. The options are a HOB fuge or a separate 5-10 gallon tank. I don't want to swap out my whole sump really cause I think it would be too expensive to do it. I haven't totally ruled that option out, so if you think its possible feel free to show me some cheaper options. I am leaning toward the separate tank and using the outlet line of my carbon reactor as the inline for the fuge and just adding the same pump with an inline control valve as the return line to either the display directly or back to the sump. I would need to figure out a light option for this setup as well. Let me know what you all think would be the best route to go, as well as a good affordable light option for the fuge. My display is 75g.

 

[Llyod276]

I have a 75g and I have a fuge/sump.
First things first is size. I have a 20 gallon sump and its getting crowded. Skimmer,carbon reactor, heater, return pump, plumbing, and filter socks. And cheato. I'm gonna upgrade to a 40g just so I have room.
Second: dyi or prefab. Prefab is minimally customizable and expensive. Dyi is cheaper and highly customizable.
3rd is weight. Yes extra water volume is good. But think of the weight, acrylic is heavy stuff. Saltwater is heavy too. Equipment is heavy. And once you have it installed think about how your not gonna be able to move it around. Especially with a center braced stand, wooden type. So once it's in. Your gonna have to drain the DP AND THE FUGE to swap them out.
4th time hack: idk why but everytime I upgrade and or add; a simple project turns into an all day fiasco. Granted everything I'm doing mostly new to me.
5th dont do it for a fish. This is more maintainance for you for a finicky little (albeit gorgeous fish).
The benefits include: definitely increased salinity stability. I can lose almost 10 gallons of water a week without the salinity going up more than 2 points. Water changes are easier, you can siphon water down to sump to be pumped into DT. Doesn't disturb sand beds and mixes more evenly. Temp swings from water changes are minimized this way to from going into sump first. Bonus assuming its larger, free isolation chamber. It cannot be used as a qt tank. Also a place to house frags assuming you get proper lighting. Away from hungry dwarf angels.
7. I'm not religious at all l. But "as it is above, so it shall be below." This does make sense. And its where your pods will propagate unless you put you mandarin diwn there.
8. Drill your DT. before you try and add a sump. Save yourself a headache.

 

[Llyod276]

I have a 75g and I have a fuge/sump.
First things first is size. I have a 20 gallon sump and its getting crowded. Skimmer,carbon reactor, heater, return pump, plumbing, and filter socks. And cheato. I'm gonna upgrade to a 40g just so I have room.
Second: dyi or prefab. Prefab is minimally customizable and expensive. Dyi is cheaper and highly customizable.
3rd is weight. Yes extra water volume is good. But think of the weight, acrylic is heavy stuff. Saltwater is heavy too. Equipment is heavy. And once you have it installed think about how your not gonna be able to move it around. Especially with a center braced stand, wooden type. So once it's in. Your gonna have to drain the DP AND THE FUGE to swap them out.
4th time hack: idk why but everytime I upgrade and or add; a simple project turns into an all day fiasco. Granted everything I'm doing mostly new to me.
5th dont do it for a fish. This is more maintainance for you for a finicky little (albeit gorgeous fish).
The benefits include: definitely increased salinity stability. I can lose almost 10 gallons of water a week without the salinity going up more than 2 points. Water changes are easier, you can siphon water down to sump to be pumped into DT. Doesn't disturb sand beds and mixes more evenly. Temp swings from water changes are minimized this way to from going into sump first. Bonus assuming its larger, free isolation chamber. It cannot be used as a qt tank. Also a place to house frags assuming you get proper lighting. Away from hungry dwarf angels.
7. I'm not religious at all l. But "as it is above, so it shall be below." This does make sense. And its where your pods will propagate unless you put you mandarin diwn there.
8. Drill your DT. before you try and add a sump. Save yourself a headache.

A. if you plan on growing cheato, a simple grow bulb from amazon. Mine was 20$ in a drop light which I rebuilt into a sealed unit. Grows cheato nonstop. If your gonna house frags, get the same light as above but smaller. You get what you pay for in aquarium lighting, name brands are just a bit much. Think about it your lighting maybe a sq. foot at max. Doesnt need a kessil, but brs tv says it's so much better, idk. Research the plant and coral spectrums. Read the articles about reverse cycling the photo (light) periods.
B. Buy a simple $20 pump for carbon reactor. Leave the return pump as a stand alone. If you add more load to this pump the less you will be able to cycle. It'd be nice to run everything off a single pump and maybe it's possible, but it's a ******* nightmare to plumb it.
C. There's even premade baffles by Fiji that's half the price or less of a prefab unit. Add a used water tight tank and you'd save half or maybe a 1/4 of the sticker price.

 

[amahairas]

The crowded sump is why I want to add a separate tank to be only responsible for my fuge. So a 5-10 gallon tank with nothing but pods and macro algae in it. Also I thought by doing it this way I can leave my system running, pull out the return line from the refuguim tank and dump that water essentially making the water change SUPER easy. I have room under my tank for the small tank or I could even build an equipment cabinet beside the tank to house ATO bucket and the fuge, not overly worried about that. I do like the benefit of an isolation tank. I have an emerald crab I have caught picking near some of my corals, not sure if he's picking them or not but they seem healthy so I've left him for now but the fuge would be a good place to banish him to lol. Im a big DIY guy so this is honestly the part of the hobby I love the most, planning, building, improving, and staring back at planning.

 

[Llyod276]

The crowded sump is why I want to add a separate tank to be only responsible for my fuge. So a 5-10 gallon tank with nothing but pods and macro algae in it. Also I thought by doing it this way I can leave my system running, pull out the return line from the refuguim tank and dump that water essentially making the water change SUPER easy. I have room under my tank for the small tank or I could even build an equipment cabinet beside the tank to house ATO bucket and the fuge, not overly worried about that. I do like the benefit of an isolation tank. I have an emerald crab I have caught picking near some of my corals, not sure if he's picking them or not but they seem healthy so I've left him for now but the fuge would be a good place to banish him to lol. Im a big DIY guy so this is honestly the part of the hobby I love the most, planning, building, improving, and staring back at planning.

Dude if your set on this pod fuge. Cool. Consider just making a tank for that. I got a buddy who did exactly that. Has 4 things: a cover. A light. Heater and HOB filter. No water changes, feeds flake and grows best in show pods. The problem you're gonna face by making it inline is matching pump speeds: to pump water in and pump water out. But if your already out of space dont try to cram it in. Eventually its gonna tick you off.
I too want a separate cabinet. A 40g sumo will leave me with what inches of spare room. But then a cabinet... : so I can hide the litter box, put in a ato reservoir and system, stash all my chemikills and food. Then I'm out if room, then what shelves? Yeah, buddy you're an addict. And I'm turning into you. Last night I was reviewing plans on refrigerating and mixing while simultaneously dosing my reefroids and or my coral nutrition AB+ Can you believe they do not make a 1 gallon motor driven agitator for the Express purpose of mixing reefroids to be dosed?

 

[amahairas]

A. if you plan on growing cheato, a simple grow bulb from amazon. Mine was 20$ in a drop light which I rebuilt into a sealed unit. Grows cheato nonstop. If your gonna house frags, get the same light as above but smaller. You get what you pay for in aquarium lighting, name brands are just a bit much. Think about it your lighting maybe a sq. foot at max. Doesnt need a kessil, but brs tv says it's so much better, idk. Research the plant and coral spectrums. Read the articles about reverse cycling the photo (light) periods.
B. Buy a simple $20 pump for carbon reactor. Leave the return pump as a stand alone. If you add more load to this pump the less you will be able to cycle. It'd be nice to run everything off a single pump and maybe it's possible, but it's a ******* nightmare to plumb it.
C. There's even premade baffles by Fiji that's half the price or less of a prefab unit. Add a used water tight tank and you'd save half or maybe a 1/4 of the sticker price.

I don't think Id put any frags down there so I think I'd be able to get away with just about any grow light. I don't have a ton of coral in the tank yet, but the stability of the reverse light cycle is an added plus. I currently have a carbon reactor running and so my thought was to run the outlet line from the current carbon reactor to the separated fuge tank, then put a similar pump in the fuge tank to return the water back to the sump for my main return pump to then push the pods back up to the display, OR am I better having the return line from the fuge go directly back to the display.

 

[amahairas]

Dude if your set on this pod fuge. Cool. Consider just making a tank for that. I got a buddy who did exactly that. Has 4 things: a cover. A light. Heater and HOB filter. No water changes, feeds flake and grows best in show pods. The problem you're gonna face by making it inline is matching pump speeds: to pump water in and pump water out. But if your already out of space where is this tank gonna go?

The sump is crowded but I have space beside the sump for a 5-10g tank. The separate grow tank was the other thought of just growing out pods in a separate container and just moving live rock back and forth every so often, but then benefits of the chaeto, the reverse light cycles, the increase in water volume, and the pods is what pushes me towards doing something inline.

Matching flow rates is one of the concerns given Im thinking of pushing water through the carbon reactor first then into the fuge tank. I have the BRS reactor and it has an inline valve that would make controlling the flow relatively straight forward. I would buy the same pump with the same inline valve to control the return flow. I suppose if either side becomes clogged it could result in overflow of at most the volume of the fuge. This leads back to is a HOB fuge a better option?

 

[Llyod276]

I don't think Id put any frags down there so I think I'd be able to get away with just about any grow light. I don't have a ton of coral in the tank yet, but the stability of the reverse light cycle is an added plus. I currently have a carbon reactor running and so my thought was to run the outlet line from the current carbon reactor to the separated fuge tank, then put a similar pump in the fuge tank to return the water back to the sump for my main return pump to then push the pods back up to the display, OR am I better having the return line from the fuge go directly back to the display.

All I can think of is a upipe and a pump from one back to the other. Unless you find the unicorn, rather two of them, you're headed down pump match alley. No best to let one overflow and pump back but that's more drilling. Or a u pipe. This is turning into a water fall tank. And now you have 6 feet of head to clear. Expensive pump...

 

[Sdot]

The crowded sump is why I want to add a separate tank to be only responsible for my fuge. So a 5-10 gallon tank with nothing but pods and macro algae in it. Also I thought by doing it this way I can leave my system running, pull out the return line from the refuguim tank and dump that water essentially making the water change SUPER easy. I have room under my tank for the small tank or I could even build an equipment cabinet beside the tank to house ATO bucket and the fuge, not overly worried about that. I do like the benefit of an isolation tank. I have an emerald crab I have caught picking near some of my corals, not sure if he's picking them or not but they seem healthy so I've left him for now but the fuge would be a good place to banish him to lol. Im a big DIY guy so this is honestly the part of the hobby I love the most, planning, building, improving, and staring back at planning.

This was the best decision i made! So much more flexibility with a separate fuge, from flow adjustment, feeding, lighting control (Saves your clear skimmer bodies) and much much more. Any future tank i have will have a separate fuge...fyi this is run with a vectra L2... not issues at all.

 

[amahairas]

This was the best decision i made! So much more flexibility with a separate fuge, from flow adjustment, feeding, lighting control (Saves your clear skimmer bodies) and much much more. Any future tank i have will have a separate fuge

How do you move water back and forth between the fuge tank and the sump? The plumbing of this is where my problem is.

 

[Llyod276]

Personally the carbon reactor should have a little pump, the point is contact time. Where is the HOB gonna hang off the DT? I mean literally it seems like a sump for a sump. The flow needs be unilateral, one direction. Youd have to redo two sumps, drill both and man. I have these Ideas now. And its 1030 and I'm up for work at 530. My mind is blowing. Save the head ache, just Frankenstein a cheap tank for pods and phyto. Grow both. The you'll have filter feeder food too.

 

[Sdot]

How do you move water back and forth between the fuge tank and the sump? The plumbing of this is where my problem is.

Please see below:

 

[Llyod276]

This was the best decision i made! So much more flexibility with a separate fuge, from flow adjustment, feeding, lighting control (Saves your clear skimmer bodies) and much much more. Any future tank i have will have a separate fuge...fyi this is run with a vectra L2... not issues at all.

That's an easy $3k setup. Pretty but golly, you can almost see the Ferrari through the wall.

 

[Sdot]

That's an easy $3k setup. Pretty but golly, you can almost see the Ferrari through the wall.

Lol... thanks! Lol i was using this as a point of reference, to illustrate with a little drilling and/or gravity its very easy to add a separate fuge.

 

[amahairas]

All I can think of is a upipe and a pump from one back to the other. Unless you find the unicorn, rather two of them, you're headed down pump match alley. No best to let one overflow and pump back but that's more drilling. Or a u pipe. This is turning into a water fall tank. And now you have 6 feet of head to clear. Expensive pump...

Lol... thanks! Lol i was using this as a point of reference, to illustrate with a little drilling and/or gravity its very easy to add a separate fuge.

So is the fuge gravity feed and then a pump from the fuge to the sump?

 

[amahairas]

Personally the carbon reactor should have a little pump, the point is contact time. Where is the HOB gonna hang off the DT? I mean literally it seems like a sump for a sump. The flow needs be unilateral, one direction. Youd have to redo two sumps, drill both and man. I have these Ideas now. And its 1030 and I'm up for work at 530. My mind is blowing. Save the head ache, just Frankenstein a cheap tank for pods and phyto. Grow both. The you'll have filter feeder food too.

Yea, it would just hang off the the DT, I guess it could go off the sump though. It would essentially be a sump for a sump, but more so a fuge for a sump lol. I think the unilateral flow is the right train of thought, like if the "return pump" from the fuge goes straight to the display rather than back to the sump.

 

[Sdot]

So is the fuge gravity feed and then a pump from the fuge to the sump?

The fuge has an overflow, a very simple one (PVC pipe mounted horizontally with slits for water drain)..its fed by the pump and gravity fed back into the sump.

 

[Sdot]

Yea, it would just hang off the the DT, I guess it could go off the sump though. It would essentially be a sump for a sump, but more so a fuge for a sump lol. I think the unilateral flow is the right train of thought, like if the "return pump" from the fuge goes straight to the display rather than back to the sump.

That wont work unless the fuge is at the same level or above the display. Or you have a separate fuge "pump" in the fuge pushing water to the display.

 

[Llyod276]

This looks like a 20 and 20 project, 20 for the jun--- equipment and 20 for the fuge. Either a double 45 pvc double drill or parallel drill at the bottom. Lotsa space used. At this point just clear out the basement and build the sumproom. A 10 g fuge is kinda small esp if your return pump is goin there. Properly baffled you'll be refilling water daily if you dont cover everything. Think of the evaporation. Three tanks. 100g system.

 

[amahairas]

That wont work unless the fuge is at the same level or above the display. Or you have a separate fuge "pump" in the fuge pushing water to the display.

BRS sells HOB fuges (I think they do have a small internal pump to push water back), they aren't very big which is why I'd rather have an external tank for it. It MAY keep the pod population up to support a goby if the tank also has a good population, but it wouldnt be ideal.