All lamps are still off (LED hybrid with 4 T5HOs), chiller is still on standby:i'd test again for AC and DC volt and take some photos.
DC volt in tank is worse than AC volt, I think.
AC volts 2.1V
DC volts 0V
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All lamps are still off (LED hybrid with 4 T5HOs), chiller is still on standby:i'd test again for AC and DC volt and take some photos.
DC volt in tank is worse than AC volt, I think.
What’s your pH? Personally I’ve never had an ammonia reading above zero on a cycled tank, although admittedly it’s not normally something I would test for. The badges are great for keeping an eye on new tanks, as are the seneye monitors and the seneye can also monitor pH which has a direct correlation with the proportion of NH3 and NH4 in the water.salifert test kit, it read <0.15 ppm.
Lowest without light 8.21 and 8.35 end of the tank day.What’s your pH? Personally I’ve never had an ammonia reading above zero on a cycled tank, although admittedly it’s not normally something I would test for. The badges are great for keeping an eye on new tanks, as are the seneye monitors and the seneye can also monitor pH which has a direct correlation with the proportion of NH3 and NH4 in the water.
I understand that worry, but voltage leakage isn’t always stable and can get worse, so be very careful about your safety. When I was 12, I reached into a hot tank and it knocked me down and really rattled my teeth....I was lucky. That said, is see you are in Malta, and I know nothing about your electrical system/voltage.i don't have an aquarium controller to notify me if something happens with the tank. i'm afraid with a GFCI circuit, it can be blown without anyone noticing and I ended up having a tank without electricity while I'm at work.
Also if you have voltage, you also likely have metals leaching into your tank from whatever that voltage is coming from.
So sorry about that accident.I understand that worry, but voltage leakage isn’t always stable and can get worse, so be very careful about your safety. When I was 12, I reached into a hot tank and it knocked me down and really rattled my teeth....I was lucky. That said, is see you are in Malta, and I know nothing about your electrical system/voltage.
Jay
I’m not an electrician, but @Brew12 may be able to answer questions1. Is that possible to have 0 AC Volt? How do you manage to have 0 AC voltage?
2. I got higher AC voltage reading when my lamps are on. They aren't in water and neither are their cords. Is there any explaination on this?
Thank you for the invite!Also if you have voltage, you also likely have metals leaching into your tank from whatever that voltage is coming from.
@Brew12 what are your thoughts on these fish deaths and stray voltage?
To clarify, when you measured 11.3 VAC Was there anything in the tank? Heater, powerhead, pump?
Thanks for your thoughts, have you written anything up about this issue? PM me if interested, we could work on it together. My problem is that stray voltage keeps getting blamed for HLLE, when it isn’t the culprit. One problem I’ve seen is actual electrolysis in water, forming sulfates and hydrogen gas.Thank you for the invite!
I'm heading out for an 8 mile trail run in a few minutes so won't be available again until later today, but I'll leave a few quick comments after reading through the thread. I am very sorry for your losses, this is a tough one.
First is that @Jay Hemdal is absolutely correct in that it is nearly impossible to electrocute a marine fish because they are less conductive than the water they swim in. You can do it to a FW fish, not SW.
2nd, you should never have any type of DC in your tank. Even what we call DC motors are fed with some type of AC. It's not a true sine wave so meters may not read it correctly, but it is AC.
3rd is that, unless you run a ground probe or grounded titanium heater, having AC voltage in your tank is very normal. You can wrap an extension cord around a bucket of salt water, plug a large load into it, and read over 50V inside the bucket. It is due to induction and shouldn't bother fish in the least. My system, with the heaters unplugged and the ground probe removed, reads 24VAC. It is under 1VAC with them plugged in.
The real concern is if you have a fault voltage from a bad cord or pump in your water. The easiest way to determine which is which is to try running the system on a GFCI (GCD) with a ground probe. If the GFCI/GCD trips, this is a very bad thing. A failed pump can leach copper and other toxins into your system which absolutely can kill fish.
Hope that helps, I'll swing buy later today to see if there are any questions.
Yaay... 0 DC volt.you should never have any type of DC in your tank. Even what we call DC motors are fed with some type of AC. It's not a true sine wave so meters may not
What a relief. Yep there are some AC cords in water. So no need for Rid-Volts ?You can wrap an extension cord around a bucket of salt water, plug a large load into it, and read over 50V inside the bucket. It is due to induction and shouldn't bother fish in the least. My system, with the heaters unplugged and the ground probe removed, reads 24VAC. It is under 1VAC with them plugged in.
Ok will try with GFCI connector just to investigate. I wouldn't want copper or any toxin in water.The real concern is if you have a fault voltage from a bad cord or pump in your water. The easiest way to determine which is which is to try running the system on a GFCI (GCD) with a ground probe. If the GFCI/GCD trips, this is a very bad thing. A failed pump can leach copper and other toxins into your system which absolutely can kill fish.
I run with a ground probe, which is what I think you are referring to as Rid-Volts. I run my system off of 2 separate GFCI/RCD outlets so that if one trips I won't lose all flow through the tank. To me, the most valuable thing a ground probe does is cause the GFCI/RCD to trip as soon as a piece of equipment develops a fault. By de-energizing it immediately it reduces the amount of toxins released into the water and alerts me to the problem sooner.Yaay... 0 DC volt.
What a relief. Yep there are some AC cords in water. So no need for Rid-Volts ?
Ok will try with GFCI connector just to investigate. I wouldn't want copper or any toxin in water.
Thank you very much @Brew12
Jay,Thanks for your thoughts, have you written anything up about this issue? PM me if interested, we could work on it together. My problem is that stray voltage keeps getting blamed for HLLE, when it isn’t the culprit. One problem I’ve seen is actual electrolysis in water, forming sulfates and hydrogen gas.
Jay
Jay,
I put this post together a few years ago that was turned into an article.
Using Ground Probes in Aquariums
Why your saltwater aquarium needs a ground probe (or several). The piece is written by an expert electrician.www.reef2reef.com
The possibility of an induced voltage causing or not causing HLLE is above my pay grade. I suspect it does not, but I can't say that with any certainty.
A person standing on a rubber insulating mat or working from an insulated bucket truck can safely grab a 13,000V transmission line with their bare hands. It is actually a common practice. You can't feel anything when this happens because we have no reference ground voltage to compare it to. If we touch 13kV and ground at the same time, it would likely be fatal.
A fish is always at the same potential as the water. It can't experience any significant difference in voltage. Based on this, I find it highly unlikely that a fish can tell if the aquarium water is at 1 VAC or 1,000 VAC. For this reason, I find electricity to be an unlikely cause of HLLE.
I suspect that most HLLE blamed on electrical faults is actually caused by the toxins released by the fault, not due to the electricity itself. The only reason I can't say this with conviction is that I don't have an acceptable knowledge of the electrical receptors in fish. Fish can hunt and navigate in seawater using these receptors. For that to happen, these receptors need to be extremely sensitive. Is it possible that something about the electricity in our systems aggravates the receptors and can cause HLLE? I can't rule it out even if I find it highly unlikely.
I'm thrilled to know someone has done that research! I couldn't imagine it causing a problem, but I couldn't back it up, either.I studied stray voltage and HLLE very extensively years ago, before I ran my carbon study. I never published, but I feel very strongly that it is a red herring. What happens is people see HLLE on their fish, test for voltage and find it. That isn't causation. I tested every system in our aquarium and there was zero correlation to the "stray voltage" and the incidence of HLLE. Same thing with copper causing it; so many people use carbon to remove the copper after a treatment, and then when HLLE shows up, they blame the copper (grin).
In terms of toxins being released by failing electrical equipment: I've seen issues with copper and zinc release, as well as oil released from sump pumps that failed. The other issue is that electrolysis that I mentioned - the chemistry involved is way too complicated for me to understand, but sulfate production is an issue, as is chlorine. My guess is that many of the other constituent salts create their own nasty reactions, bromine formation for example.
Jay
Great advice for splitting flows into 2 GFCI outlets.I run with a ground probe, which is what I think you are referring to as Rid-Volts. I run my system off of 2 separate GFCI/RCD outlets so that if one trips I won't lose all flow through the tank. To me, the most valuable thing a ground probe does is cause the GFCI/RCD to trip as soon as a piece of equipment develops a fault. By de-energizing it immediately it reduces the amount of toxins released into the water and alerts me to the problem sooner.
An ELCB is a circuit breaker, a GFCI can be a circuit breaker or an outlet. But they are functionally the same thing.Great advice for splitting flows into 2 GFCI outlets.
Wall = GFCI outlet, then connect to smart socket for plugging equipments. Is this correct?
May I confirm should there’s a current leakage (normally from one equipment), it will only trip one GFCI outlet (one with that faulty equipment), not both altogether?
Is GFCI different than ELCB?
Many thanks.
thanks for saying that.
behavior wise --> my fish weren't like your clownfish, more toward your Tang.
however i find it difficult to observe velvet on your Tang. sorry, i'm a newbie... don't have a good eye for parasite or fish sickness.
My plan is to have only utilitarian fish : algae control & pest control. Hopefully by the number of the fish, I have enough stock to maintain some nitrate in the water.
What is your suggestion for that purpose?
As I said before, I would have expected that velvet would have caused fish loss much faster, but I'm struggling to come up with another solution. It sure seems like it might have been velvet to me. I'm just guessing here - but perhaps velvet, infecting established fish, shows different symptoms? We normally see velvet in new fish, and perhaps in longer term captives, it presents differently?
Jay