Global Warming, Where do you stand? Poll

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Perhaps we're just tired of people screaming that the sky is falling. In the 60's, we were going to destroy the earth with nukes. In the 70's, we were in for another ice age. In the 80's, the ozone hole was going to kill us all. In the 90's, Killer Bees... Today, 'Climate Change'. We've been less than a decade away from total disaster ALL MY LIFE!

I'm not saying that the climate isn't changing, it is... always has, with or without humans contributing to it. Are we contributing this time? Who knows. Temps on Mars have gone up over the last decade, more than they have here... we responsible for that too?

What I'm saying is this: Before we dump our entire civilization down the drain, we do, in fact want proof. Not computer models (as a software engineer, I promise, I can make a computer model show _anything_ that I want it too). Proof, and a reasonable SOLUTION to the problem. We have not seen either.

You talk about the corporate dollars behind 'deniers'... take a look at the corruption and averice on the other side! How is my paying higher taxes because I use more energy than someone else going to help lower CO2 levels?

What proof can possibly be provided about a future event that would convince you?

Also, many folks seem to be confusing three TOTALLY different issues.

1. Whether' man is contributing to climate change by releasing greenhouse gasses

and

2. What can be done to prevent or reduce the effects

and

3. What should be done.

The first is a pure science question. Nearly every climatologist agrees that 1 is happening.

The second is partly science and partly engineering, and is likely subject to more uncertainty than 1, but most scientists think there are things that can be done.

3 is totally a political question.

Unfortunately, many people whose politics suggest they do not want to make sacrifices in such a situation find it far more convenient and less ego damaging to claim the proof for 1 and 2 is inadequate, than to admit that they don't care anyway since the effects on them are not going to be nearly as bad as the sacrifice they'd need to make to prevent 1 from happening.

 

[Mattrg02]

I think that we can all agree that we are releasing more c02 into the air than we did 1000 years ago. I think we can also all agree that c02 is a greenhouse gas and we aren't helping the situation. Is it enough to be the cause of our destruction? Maybe, maybe not.

In the end, so what? We can't just stop driving cars or switch over to electric cars yet. We can't stop breathing nor can we live without coal and natural gas, for now. People aren't going to stop having babies that outnumber the parents. We aren't aliens, we are also part of the earth and have a right to be here. All of earths inhabitants exploit their environment to the best they can for their survival.

I'm tired of hearing about how we are polluting the earth. I want to start talking about reasonable solutions. Everything that exhales c02 or passes gas is polluting the earth.

Solar isn't the answer for now. I do truly believe it will be part of it 10 years from now though. What's the other part? Let's discuss the other part. Solar is obvious since it doesn't release c02 as it operates. What else doesn't release c02? Nuclear could be an option if we would quit deamonizing it and start developing it. What other energy sources, free of carbon, do we have available?

Once we can get an energy source to be cheaper than carbon, we will have solved the problem.

You can't force people to pay triple for their power just because we don't have a better alternative. I am a utility engineer and talk to Members that struggle between paying their electric bill and paying for food. Those people WONT vote to support politicians that make their electric bills triple.

 

[4FordFamily]

We could do without the Ford F-350 trucks ;-)

Some people need that kind of power in a brand that will last and hold it's value!

 

[Mattrg02]

Some people need that kind of power in a brand that will last and hold it's value!

I can't knock the the f350... I'm hauling around in a Porsche just for fun on the weekends. :-) Surely isn't helping the global warming thing.

 

[Adam113]

We could do without the Ford F-350 trucks ;-)

I think you're kidding, but some people say these things and are serious. Tell that to the guys who built your house or giant apartment building using those trucks.

People are so dang hypocritical when it comes to this subject. I like to think of the celebrities who speak at a global warming event, then go to the ramp and fuel up their private jet, blast across the world, then take their motorcade to one of their 10 mansions.

 

[Mattrg02]

I think you're kidding, but some people say these things and are serious. Tell that to the guys who built your house or giant apartment building using those trucks.

People are so dang hypocritical when it comes to this subject. I like to think of the celebrities who speak at a global warming event, then go to the ramp and fuel up their private jet, blast across the world, then take their motorcade to one of their 10 mansions.

I'm kidding for the most part. Now, I do see a lot of dudebros in these type trucks doing nothing but driving like they are in a German sports car in rush hour traffic.

I absolutely love when one try's to race me. :-)

 

[Adam113]

I'm kidding for the most part. Now, I do see a lot of dudebros in these type trucks doing nothing but driving like they are in a German sports car in rush hour traffic.

I absolutely love when one try's to race me. :-)

No doubt. In NC, a lifted diesel on chrome rims and street tires is the "I'm a d o u c h e" or "Daddy has money" symbol. I have them try to race me in my Cobra all the time... They floor it on green and I take off nice and slow.

 

[jgvergo]

Perhaps we're just tired of people screaming that the sky is falling. In the 60's, we were going to destroy the earth with nukes. In the 70's, we were in for another ice age. In the 80's, the ozone hole was going to kill us all. In the 90's, Killer Bees... Today, 'Climate Change'. We've been less than a decade away from total disaster ALL MY LIFE!

I'm not saying that the climate isn't changing, it is... always has, with or without humans contributing to it. Are we contributing this time? Who knows. Temps on Mars have gone up over the last decade, more than they have here... we responsible for that too?

What I'm saying is this: Before we dump our entire civilization down the drain, we do, in fact want proof. Not computer models (as a software engineer, I promise, I can make a computer model show _anything_ that I want it too). Proof, and a reasonable SOLUTION to the problem. We have not seen either.

You talk about the corporate dollars behind 'deniers'... take a look at the corruption and averice on the other side! How is my paying higher taxes because I use more energy than someone else going to help lower CO2 levels?

I love your point. How about this model:

average temperature on earth = -0.1*ppm of carbon in the atmosphere

It's a computer model (no one can deny this)
It shows temperature will decrease as carbon concentrations increase. (no one can deny this)

It's SCIENCE I tell you SCIENCE!!

 

[ReeferBob]

This is the type of poll the fake-news sources like CNN and CBS love since if you answer honestly - for instance "yes" global climate change is happening (as it has for the past eons), they portray this poll as you think man has a significant role in it. There simply is no evidence to confirm this and most independent (non governmental) evidence shows man has little, if anything to do with it. Of course none of the climate models support it. Yes, we need to be good stewards of the planet, but joining feel-good organizations like the Paris climate accord does nothing but punish rich nations, well, namely punishes the US.

Add more answers and I will consider answering it.

 

[SPSREEFS]

God has created this planet. He will see fit as to what happens with it. Make no mistake, if he does not want it destroyed it will not be!
We are still within a 2 degree variable people. On the high side yes. We have only been recording temps for about 100 years or so. Half that with mercury thermometers. They have a variable.....not that accurate.
I don't lose ANY sleep over it people......

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OMG, I can't even keep reading this thread. It's just so disappointing . I'm out.

I should not be surprised, however, since my brother just had to inform congress there are not aliens on mars.

https://www.space.com/37534-mars-civilization-evidence-congress-nasa.html

 

[SPSREEFS]

Mr. Farley,
Are you familiar with the Time Space Matter Continuum??? If your not, May I elaborate sir???

 

[Mattrg02]

No doubt. In NC, a lifted diesel on chrome rims and street tires is the "I'm a d o u c h e" or "Daddy has money" symbol. I have them try to race me in my Cobra all the time... They floor it on green and I take off nice and slow.

I give a few a run for their money. Nothing like seeing the look on

OMG, I can't even keep reading this thread. It's just so disappointing . I'm out.

I should not be surprised, however, since my brother just had to inform congress there are not aliens on mars.

https://www.space.com/37534-mars-civilization-evidence-congress-nasa.html

Randy,

I've read many things from you, and have always had a great respect for you, but this post seemed really unlike you.

-Matt

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I give a few a run for their money. Nothing like seeing the look on


Randy,

I've read many things from you, and have always had a great respect for you, but this post seemed really unlike you.

-Matt

Sorry, I should stay out of the lounge. I have lots of patience to explain or debate science. I have no patience for people who denigrate science with opinion, and for those who take no responsibility for this planet we share.

 

[Mattrg02]

Sorry, I should stay out of the lounge. I have lots of patience to explain or debate science. I have no patience for people who denigrate science with opinion, and for those who take no responsibility for this planet we share.

Science is perfect, but humans are imperfect. We have to interpret science in the best way that we can. There will always be opinion, and emotion, used in the process. Sometimes it is clear that science is being interpreted for personal gains, or political agenda, and sometimes it isn't.

Those of us that choose to interpret science in a differing manor, have our reasons that don't involve us being idiots. Assuming we differ because we are idiots, only holds up progress.

 

[ReeferBob]

Sorry, I should stay out of the lounge. I have lots of patience to explain or debate science. I have no patience for people who denigrate science with opinion, and for those who take no responsibility for this planet we share.

"Opinion" is the definition of the interpretation of climate change data.

 

[Husker]

Sorry, I should stay out of the lounge. I have lots of patience to explain or debate science. I have no patience for people who denigrate science with opinion, and for those who take no responsibility for this planet we share.

I struggle with patience when it comes to willful ignorance and allowance of myth, politics, and feelings to supersede analysis of empirical evidence. Scientists become scientists because they want to understand the natural world. The vast majority want to find the correct answer in order to truly understand how nature works. They don't want simply want to demonstrate the truth of their original ideas. Instead, most scientists enjoy being surprised and perplexed when the answers aren't as expected. This, ultimately, leads to a better understanding of nature and fulfills the desire that emboldened their decision to attempt a career in science.

There were some interesting thoughts and discussions about the data early in this thread (some that were frankly beyond my intellectual comfort with the subject matter). However, it seemed to take a pretty drastic intellectual plummet as time went on.

 

[neuwave]

Sorry, I should stay out of the lounge. I have lots of patience to explain or debate science. I have no patience for people who denigrate science with opinion, and for those who take no responsibility for this planet we share.

Exactly, I'm trying my hardest to find someone who can have a decent conversation as a science debate. Trying to learn their way of thinking but I have gotten nothing but opinion.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Those of us that choose to interpret science in a differing manor, have our reasons that don't involve us being idiots. Assuming we differ because we are idiots, only holds up progress.

Not a single person is this thread (that I am aware of) is a trained climatologist. Nearly all who are climatologists agree on the basic principles and predictions, with differences being in the timing and extent of the effect of greenhouse gases on the very complex system which is earth climate.

So when untrained people, most of whom have not actually read and technically evaluated the peer reviewed articles to clearly identify what specifically they think is wrong with a given model, say they are are not convinced by the many trained experts around the world, I do not give equal weight to their opinions as to the experts.

If someone has a specific concern with an assumption of a specific model, that's great. That's what science is, and it takes place in the scientific community all the time. That said, no one in this thread is going to be able to assess whether a particular concern has any merit because none of us have the needed training or familiarity with the exact details of the models to give an adequate response.

 

[Newtron]

Hi all some random input here.

I noticed some of your getting caught up on the CO2 content in the atmosphere.

However I believe that is not even a large part of the picture.

Tell me if you ever seen the tailing ponds from an aluminum Factory? To give you some more information a tailings pond at an aluminum Factory it is so caustic that they have to pump thousands of gallons of acid into it daily in order to make it acceptable. It is so toxic that when creatures get near it they die. Teampratures near tailing ponds are on average 20 to 30 degrees higher then surrounding weather patterns. I don't care about that blip on climate change.

I care less about global and more about industrial waste.

What happens when it rains. That waste from synthetic chemical reactions in those ponds wash down stream and can make it into the ocean.

Now look at how deadly chemicals are in our tanks in small percentages. We care if Lysol is sprayed near our tank. Parts per trillion or less.

I put more on chemical planet change than global warming.

And I'm not just picking on aluminum. I love aluminium. But their are lots of industrial waste that gets put into our water on accident.

Also solar. Thermodynamics 101. Energy is neither created or destroyed. So that solor energy that should of been reflected off the ground is held in a battery and released later. Same amount of heat is left behind to raise the temperature. Think classic fan in a box thermo question from day one in class. And the awnser is the temperature increases in the box because energy is released.

One of my big moves for Mars exploration is to move dirty industrial work their. The really nasty polluting ones.

P.s. I work at Space X so I'm doing my best to actually make a difference.