Guide to the Triton Method

Discussion in 'Triton Applied Reef Bioscience' started by Tim@Triton, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Scott.h

    Scott.h Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

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    I have a one of my systems running to the basement as well. Why do you have 25' of head pressure? I agree that's a lot of water to push in general, but have you considered bigger diameter pipe to reduce head pressure? That would help a lot. Is it not a straight shot down to the basement?
     

  2. Jaculus

    Jaculus Member R2R Supporter

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    Well, the 25' of head pressure is a guess (calculated guess I guess) the sump is almost directly below the tank in the basement. But yes I ran 1" pipe up to the DT from the PanWorld 200PS pump. The PanWorlds (like most Iwakis) have 1" outputs Its about 15' run of 1" PVC with a couple 45's and 90's to get there. So the 25' is an estimate. I suppose I could gain some more flow using bigger pipe and possibly using flex tubing to alleviate some of the head loss from the pvc angles.

    But even if I gain 200gph more by doing this, that is still well below the expected or Triton suggested 10X flow which on a 200 gal tank means I should have 2000gph. In doing some more research and reading forum posts, it LOOKS like having 5 or 6X through the tank back to the refugium along with some other method of circulating the water more around in the refugium or as I suggested the possiblity, just running a separate pump from the last sump chamber back to the first to increase the flow through the refugium alone. I guess I am looking for others experience with this situation.
     
  3. Scott.h

    Scott.h Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

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    I see. You're probably at about 12' of pressure depending on how many bends. I ended up redoing mine with 2" pipe and eliminating some nonsense along the way. I wouldn't say for someone like you it's not possible, but you'd need a good size pump. I don't have a flow meter but to me it is what it is. In my thinking macro is absorbing whatever it's submerged in all the time, be it fast moving water, or slow. It's still saturated in"x" continuously. My thinking is more towards having enough water movement to keep detritus in suspension, and keep it going towards the overflow. So I've added powerheads to the sump and aimed an extra display powerhead at the skimmer basket.

    Sonjay and mike paletta have both made mention of having 3 times tank turn over. For more it would be a waste of energy. I'm not sure who's right or wrong, but from a scientific point of view I think there is some room for debate on this.

    @Ryanbrs @randyBRS this really would be a good BRS investigates topic.
     
  4. Ryanbrs

    Ryanbrs Active Member R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor

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    The turn over is really just related to heating and filtering the water. I don't think 10x return is going to keep much of anything in suspension in the tank or sump, it just isn't that high velocity. You probably only need more than a few times turn over to heat it. Filter stocks will obviously have better performance with doubling or tripling the passes. The Carbon and GFO or other filter media will almost certainly achieve their daily goals in a just a few passes an hour as well. Since the skimmer has a fixed flow rate I guess I don't see incredible gains by increasing the flow rate through that chamber as well. I am sure that getting 10x would increase performance on all of these elements but by what degree and how much are you willing to spend?

    On a Triton system, they don't always say why they do things a certain way so we can only guess but I can see some potential benefits to a true 10x. First, with Triton I think we are transitioning from the fuge being a supportive filter to being the primary filter, not only is the fuge responsible for a majority of the nitrate and phosphate reduction there is a very reasonable chance the algae may actually prefer ammonia as it's nitrogen source. So this is a critical filter and unlike media reactors and skimmers which often have fixed flow rates regardless of sump turn over, the return pump and overflows are the feed to this important filter. So I would think of it as passing the system water volume through a specific filter 10x an hour which is a real thing rather than just 5-10x sump turn over which is a guideline without out much thought to the system or equipment in it.

    I think in some ways this gets to the heart of why some reefers have success with "methods" and others don't. So often each component of the method gets debated and the individual reefer ends up passing on elements or adjusting it in a variety of ways. The net result is no longer the Triton method, it's "Ryan's method". For this discussion, I would say if you decided to change the method to your own desires and run 3x turn over and don't have the desired success I would certainly consider following the actual 10x recommendation for the primary filter before determining if the method works for you. It might be that 10x turn over is not possible and you just need to do your best and adjust or try something different. There are a lot of system designs and methods that work :)
     
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  5. Jaculus

    Jaculus Member R2R Supporter

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    I did this up as a simple representation of my consideration/scenario. My thoughts of 3-5X on the amount of water making it to the Display tank and the remaining 5-7X that I can supplement with another pump to re-circulate that remainder to achieve the "desired" Triton 10X magical amount through the refugium "filter".

    • Is the 10X desired/suggested flow a function of the flow through both the DT and the Refugium or can it be a desired effect based on only the flow through the refugium?
    • What disadvantage to having less flow through the DT?
    I "think" the points ryan makes are likley valid for this scenario that if "turn over is really just related to heating and filtering the water. I don't think 10x return is going to keep much of anything in suspension in the tank or sump, it just isn't that high velocity. You probably only need more than a few times turn over to heat it" then the emphasis is on flow through the refugium and not having ALL that flow also going through the display tank. If that is the case then my "Scenario 2" would likely have a similar filtering effect and not have much of a variance from the ideal Triton scenario.

    Triton.jpg
     
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  6. Jaculus

    Jaculus Member R2R Supporter

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    Off subject (sort of), did you increase to 2" pipe from a 1" output of a pump? Did that make a noticeable or valuable increase in flow? Seems that the flow rate would be dictated by the highest restriction point at the output of the pump.
     
  7. Scott.h

    Scott.h Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Good points. I think you can get away with slightly lower flow from a heater prospective by running the sump a little warmer then the display. Compinsate to an extent a few degrees, but I get what you're saying.
     
  8. Scott.h

    Scott.h Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

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    It makes a huge difference. Use the biggest pipe and the absolute fewest bends you can get away with. Use this flow chart and play with numbers with your pumps rating and you'll see. My return pump on my upstairs tank is the apex cor 20. I used to run the magdrive 24. But it has a 1.25 inch output. Right at the union go bigger. I increased mine, litterly had the plumping all ready to go. I waited for the wife to leave and got the hole saw out to go bigger. Saves the argument. She never realized.

    http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator
     
  9. Jimmy Lee

    Jimmy Lee Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Can I still dose Amino's while doing the triton method?
    or are Aminos included in the 4 part mix?
     
  10. Tim@Triton

    Tim@Triton Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Aminos are naturally created in the system when the algae goes through its natural life cycle, when some of it is allowed to die off then fatty acids and sugars etc are released back into the water column which the corals then consume. You do not need to dose aminos with the Triton Method.
     
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  11. Jimmy Lee

    Jimmy Lee Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Thank you
     
  12. bh750

    bh750 Active Member

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    Hi, sorry I've posted this a few places and yet to get an answer. So figured to try here.

    I haven't read anything yet on the types of tanks, maturity, type of corals, etc that are good candidates for the Triton method. For example, would a FOWLR be as good as a fully stocked Reef with stony corals? My tank is very lightly stocked right now. Lots of fish and LR. A handful of mostly soft corals. Is the idea the more corals using up nutrients in the tank the more thats taken up and needs to be replenished? Just trying to decide if I should start now or wait a year for when my tank would/should be fully stocked.
     
  13. Scott.h

    Scott.h Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

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    A fowlr tank wouldn't have enough consumption to use the elements, so no. As long as you have corals, soft or hard, then you have consumption. The system will work with any coral, but some have more demand. You can start the method now. You just wouldn't have as much demand as a fully stocked tank. It system may only use 2ml a day of each bottle, but that's fine.
     
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  14. rcpalmer1

    rcpalmer1 Active Member

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    I have read all 200 post here and hundreds else where. I have not seen much information about nuisance algae. I have a tank that has been running about 6 months. It should be easy to change over to the Triton method. I have been fighting GHA and cyano for the last month. This is what I have.
    120 gallon display tank
    kessil AP 700
    Eflux 3170 return pump in cabinet blow tank, should be able to pump around 2500 GPH, have it running about 75%
    4 head dosing pump
    axium 160 skimmer
    carbon reactor
    about 50 frags mostly LPS
    8 fish
    Currently have 38 par led over fug
    cheato has been in system 6 months and is still green but has not grown much- large softball size
    phosphate and nitrate are constantly low- i have increased feeding but had a high of .1 and 10. This was a spike after losing a fish and went back down within a few days.
    55 watt UV
    I have to modify my sump and move my skimmer I will buy a kessil h380.

    Am I on the right track?
     
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  15. Scott.h

    Scott.h Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Yeah. Due to the cyano and low nutrient system you might get rid of some of that macro to let the system balance out some. You aren't carbon dosing or using gfo are you?
     
  16. rcpalmer1

    rcpalmer1 Active Member

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    The only thing I was dosing was BRS 2 part. I stopped a couple of weeks ago but my ALK still has not dropped. I was feeding 3 to cubes plus pellets a day trying to get the nutrients up. They never went up but that was when my algae problem started.
     
  17. Jimmy Lee

    Jimmy Lee Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    What is in each part of the 4 part?

    Is part 1 Alkalinity
    Part 2 Calcium
    Part 3a Magnesium
    Part 3b Trace and Macro?

    If I need to lower my Alkalinity & Calcium but raise my Magnesium how do I dose?
    Right now I'm dosing 3ml of each part.

    My measurements are:
    Alkalinity- 8.6
    Calcium - 475
    Magnesium - 1349

    Thanks
     
  18. Scott.h

    Scott.h Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

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    The 3s have the alk in them. But just lower all parts equally. Maybe just skip a day of all 4 bottles and start at 2 ml tomorrow. Always adjust all 4 together equally based on alk. If you then need a boost of something, add it separate. Your numbers look good.
     
  19. Tim@Triton

    Tim@Triton Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    I will post this again... Fixes to the most common balance issues....

    Solutions to "balance issues"

    Scenario 1
    Alk Low
    Ca Low
    Mg Low
    Solution - Raise all equally

    Scenario 2
    Alk High
    Ca High
    Mg High
    Solution - Lower all equally

    Scenario 3
    Alk Ok
    Ca Ok
    Mg Ok
    Solution - Maintain dose

    Scenario 4
    Alk Low
    Ca Ok
    Mg Ok
    Solution - Maintain dose, dose additional TRITON CO3 liquid buffer/NaHCO DIY Salts to raise Alk then maintain

    Scenario 5
    Alk Ok
    Ca Low
    Mg Ok
    Solution - Maintain dose, dose additional TRITON Calcium liquid buffer/CaCl2 DIY Salts to raise Ca then maintain

    Scenario 6
    Alk Ok
    Ca Ok
    Mg Low
    Solution - Maintain dose, dose additional TRITON Magnesium liquid buffer/MgCl2 DIY Salts to raise Mg then maintain

    Scenario 7
    Alk Ok
    Ca High
    Mg Ok
    Solution - Maintain dose on channels 1/3a/3b reduce dose of channel 2 until Calcium level drops to required amount.

    Scenario 8
    Alk Ok
    Ca Ok
    Mg High
    Solution - Maintain dose, water change to reduce elevated Magnesium levels. (Only if Mg very high)

    Scenario 9
    Alk Ok
    Ca High
    Mg High
    Solution - Check KH test for accuracy, reduce dose of all solutions, set KH to 7 and retest.
     
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  20. Jimmy Lee

    Jimmy Lee Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    thank you
     
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