Guide to the Triton Method

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Scott.h

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I currently have a VERY heavily stocked 200 DD tank with a 125Gal Basement refugium. Obviously with having a large refugium and GFO, Carbon, Bio Pellets and LOTS of macro algae growth I have not had any large issues with NO4 or PO3. I am currently using the typical 2 Part BRS dosing with a DOS/DDR. That is working well and has for 4 or 5 years.

Now to the question though, I am considering the Triton method now and updating my Apex from the Classic Gold to the new controller and getting on board with all the new Apex Ca/Alk/MG tester coming. Thanks to a small group setting chat with Tom Dachille of Neptune at my local LFS last night (Ocean Rift Aquatics) I am now almost 100% on board with all of this.

Here is my question that I should have asked last night. Since my sump is a basement one and I have approx 25' of head pressure (currently running a Pan World 200PS) it is nearly impossible to get the desired 10x per hour flow through the sump/refugium and Display Tank. If I was to guess I am probably at 5 to 6 times. (My first purchase will be to get the FMK so I can get a better idea of the true flow.) My question is this, can I get away with 5 or 6X through the sump back up to the DT or can I simply setup a DC high volume pump to re-circulate water from the last chamber in the sump back to the first chamber to effectively get to 10X through the refugium even though I would still only be getting 5X back through the display tank?
I have a one of my systems running to the basement as well. Why do you have 25' of head pressure? I agree that's a lot of water to push in general, but have you considered bigger diameter pipe to reduce head pressure? That would help a lot. Is it not a straight shot down to the basement?
 

Jaculus

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Well, the 25' of head pressure is a guess (calculated guess I guess) the sump is almost directly below the tank in the basement. But yes I ran 1" pipe up to the DT from the PanWorld 200PS pump. The PanWorlds (like most Iwakis) have 1" outputs Its about 15' run of 1" PVC with a couple 45's and 90's to get there. So the 25' is an estimate. I suppose I could gain some more flow using bigger pipe and possibly using flex tubing to alleviate some of the head loss from the pvc angles.

But even if I gain 200gph more by doing this, that is still well below the expected or Triton suggested 10X flow which on a 200 gal tank means I should have 2000gph. In doing some more research and reading forum posts, it LOOKS like having 5 or 6X through the tank back to the refugium along with some other method of circulating the water more around in the refugium or as I suggested the possiblity, just running a separate pump from the last sump chamber back to the first to increase the flow through the refugium alone. I guess I am looking for others experience with this situation.
 

Scott.h

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Well, the 25' of head pressure is a guess (calculated guess I guess) the sump is almost directly below the tank in the basement. But yes I ran 1" pipe up to the DT from the PanWorld 200PS pump. The PanWorlds (like most Iwakis) have 1" outputs Its about 15' run of 1" PVC with a couple 45's and 90's to get there. So the 25' is an estimate. I suppose I could gain some more flow using bigger pipe and possibly using flex tubing to alleviate some of the head loss from the pvc angles.

But even if I gain 200gph more by doing this, that is still well below the expected or Triton suggested 10X flow which on a 200 gal tank means I should have 2000gph. In doing some more research and reading forum posts, it LOOKS like having 5 or 6X through the tank back to the refugium along with some other method of circulating the water more around in the refugium or as I suggested the possiblity, just running a separate pump from the last sump chamber back to the first to increase the flow through the refugium alone. I guess I am looking for others experience with this situation.
I see. You're probably at about 12' of pressure depending on how many bends. I ended up redoing mine with 2" pipe and eliminating some nonsense along the way. I wouldn't say for someone like you it's not possible, but you'd need a good size pump. I don't have a flow meter but to me it is what it is. In my thinking macro is absorbing whatever it's submerged in all the time, be it fast moving water, or slow. It's still saturated in"x" continuously. My thinking is more towards having enough water movement to keep detritus in suspension, and keep it going towards the overflow. So I've added powerheads to the sump and aimed an extra display powerhead at the skimmer basket.

Sonjay and mike paletta have both made mention of having 3 times tank turn over. For more it would be a waste of energy. I'm not sure who's right or wrong, but from a scientific point of view I think there is some room for debate on this.

@Ryanbrs @randyBRS this really would be a good BRS investigates topic.
 

Ryanbrs

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I see. You're probably at about 12' of pressure depending on how many bends. I ended up redoing mine with 2" pipe and eliminating some nonsense along the way. I wouldn't say for someone like you it's not possible, but you'd need a good size pump. I don't have a flow meter but to me it is what it is. In my thinking macro is absorbing whatever it's submerged in all the time, be it fast moving water, or slow. It's still saturated in"x" continuously. My thinking is more towards having enough water movement to keep detritus in suspension, and keep it going towards the overflow. So I've added powerheads to the sump and aimed an extra display powerhead at the skimmer basket.

Sonjay and mike paletta have both made mention of having 3 times tank turn over. For more it would be a waste of energy. I'm not sure who's right or wrong, but from a scientific point of view I think there is some room for debate on this.

@Ryanbrs @randyBRS this really would be a good BRS investigates topic.

The turn over is really just related to heating and filtering the water. I don't think 10x return is going to keep much of anything in suspension in the tank or sump, it just isn't that high velocity. You probably only need more than a few times turn over to heat it. Filter stocks will obviously have better performance with doubling or tripling the passes. The Carbon and GFO or other filter media will almost certainly achieve their daily goals in a just a few passes an hour as well. Since the skimmer has a fixed flow rate I guess I don't see incredible gains by increasing the flow rate through that chamber as well. I am sure that getting 10x would increase performance on all of these elements but by what degree and how much are you willing to spend?

On a Triton system, they don't always say why they do things a certain way so we can only guess but I can see some potential benefits to a true 10x. First, with Triton I think we are transitioning from the fuge being a supportive filter to being the primary filter, not only is the fuge responsible for a majority of the nitrate and phosphate reduction there is a very reasonable chance the algae may actually prefer ammonia as it's nitrogen source. So this is a critical filter and unlike media reactors and skimmers which often have fixed flow rates regardless of sump turn over, the return pump and overflows are the feed to this important filter. So I would think of it as passing the system water volume through a specific filter 10x an hour which is a real thing rather than just 5-10x sump turn over which is a guideline without out much thought to the system or equipment in it.

I think in some ways this gets to the heart of why some reefers have success with "methods" and others don't. So often each component of the method gets debated and the individual reefer ends up passing on elements or adjusting it in a variety of ways. The net result is no longer the Triton method, it's "Ryan's method". For this discussion, I would say if you decided to change the method to your own desires and run 3x turn over and don't have the desired success I would certainly consider following the actual 10x recommendation for the primary filter before determining if the method works for you. It might be that 10x turn over is not possible and you just need to do your best and adjust or try something different. There are a lot of system designs and methods that work :)
 

Jaculus

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I did this up as a simple representation of my consideration/scenario. My thoughts of 3-5X on the amount of water making it to the Display tank and the remaining 5-7X that I can supplement with another pump to re-circulate that remainder to achieve the "desired" Triton 10X magical amount through the refugium "filter".

  • Is the 10X desired/suggested flow a function of the flow through both the DT and the Refugium or can it be a desired effect based on only the flow through the refugium?
  • What disadvantage to having less flow through the DT?
I "think" the points ryan makes are likley valid for this scenario that if "turn over is really just related to heating and filtering the water. I don't think 10x return is going to keep much of anything in suspension in the tank or sump, it just isn't that high velocity. You probably only need more than a few times turn over to heat it" then the emphasis is on flow through the refugium and not having ALL that flow also going through the display tank. If that is the case then my "Scenario 2" would likely have a similar filtering effect and not have much of a variance from the ideal Triton scenario.

Triton.jpg
 

Jaculus

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I ended up redoing mine with 2" pipe and eliminating some nonsense along the way.

Off subject (sort of), did you increase to 2" pipe from a 1" output of a pump? Did that make a noticeable or valuable increase in flow? Seems that the flow rate would be dictated by the highest restriction point at the output of the pump.
 

Scott.h

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The turn over is really just related to heating and filtering the water. I don't think 10x return is going to keep much of anything in suspension in the tank or sump, it just isn't that high velocity. You probably only need more than a few times turn over to heat it. Filter stocks will obviously have better performance with doubling or tripling the passes. The Carbon and GFO or other filter media will almost certainly achieve their daily goals in a just a few passes an hour as well. Since the skimmer has a fixed flow rate I guess I don't see incredible gains by increasing the flow rate through that chamber as well. I am sure that getting 10x would increase performance on all of these elements but by what degree and how much are you willing to spend?

On a Triton system, they don't always say why they do things a certain way so we can only guess but I can see some potential benefits to a true 10x. First, with Triton I think we are transitioning from the fuge being a supportive filter to being the primary filter, not only is the fuge responsible for a majority of the nitrate and phosphate reduction there is a very reasonable chance the algae may actually prefer ammonia as it's nitrogen source. So this is a critical filter and unlike media reactors and skimmers which often have fixed flow rates regardless of sump turn over, the return pump and overflows are the feed to this important filter. So I would think of it as passing the system water volume through a specific filter 10x an hour which is a real thing rather than just 5-10x sump turn over which is a guideline without out much thought to the system or equipment in it.

I think in some ways this gets to the heart of why some reefers have success with "methods" and others don't. So often each component of the method gets debated and the individual reefer ends up passing on elements or adjusting it in a variety of ways. The net result is no longer the Triton method, it's "Ryan's method". For this discussion, I would say if you decided to change the method to your own desires and run 3x turn over and don't have the desired success I would certainly consider following the actual 10x recommendation for the primary filter before determining if the method works for you. It might be that 10x turn over is not possible and you just need to do your best and adjust or try something different. There are a lot of system designs and methods that work :)
Good points. I think you can get away with slightly lower flow from a heater prospective by running the sump a little warmer then the display. Compinsate to an extent a few degrees, but I get what you're saying.
 

Scott.h

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Off subject (sort of), did you increase to 2" pipe from a 1" output of a pump? Did that make a noticeable or valuable increase in flow? Seems that the flow rate would be dictated by the highest restriction point at the output of the pump.
It makes a huge difference. Use the biggest pipe and the absolute fewest bends you can get away with. Use this flow chart and play with numbers with your pumps rating and you'll see. My return pump on my upstairs tank is the apex cor 20. I used to run the magdrive 24. But it has a 1.25 inch output. Right at the union go bigger. I increased mine, litterly had the plumping all ready to go. I waited for the wife to leave and got the hole saw out to go bigger. Saves the argument. She never realized.

http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator
 
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Tim@Triton

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Can I still dose Amino's while doing the triton method?
or are Aminos included in the 4 part mix?
Aminos are naturally created in the system when the algae goes through its natural life cycle, when some of it is allowed to die off then fatty acids and sugars etc are released back into the water column which the corals then consume. You do not need to dose aminos with the Triton Method.
 

Brian W

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Aminos are naturally created in the system when the algae goes through its natural life cycle, when some of it is allowed to die off then fatty acids and sugars etc are released back into the water column which the corals then consume. You do not need to dose aminos with the Triton Method.
Thank you
 

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Hi, sorry I've posted this a few places and yet to get an answer. So figured to try here.

I haven't read anything yet on the types of tanks, maturity, type of corals, etc that are good candidates for the Triton method. For example, would a FOWLR be as good as a fully stocked Reef with stony corals? My tank is very lightly stocked right now. Lots of fish and LR. A handful of mostly soft corals. Is the idea the more corals using up nutrients in the tank the more thats taken up and needs to be replenished? Just trying to decide if I should start now or wait a year for when my tank would/should be fully stocked.
 

Scott.h

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Hi, sorry I've posted this a few places and yet to get an answer. So figured to try here.

I haven't read anything yet on the types of tanks, maturity, type of corals, etc that are good candidates for the Triton method. For example, would a FOWLR be as good as a fully stocked Reef with stony corals? My tank is very lightly stocked right now. Lots of fish and LR. A handful of mostly soft corals. Is the idea the more corals using up nutrients in the tank the more thats taken up and needs to be replenished? Just trying to decide if I should start now or wait a year for when my tank would/should be fully stocked.
A fowlr tank wouldn't have enough consumption to use the elements, so no. As long as you have corals, soft or hard, then you have consumption. The system will work with any coral, but some have more demand. You can start the method now. You just wouldn't have as much demand as a fully stocked tank. It system may only use 2ml a day of each bottle, but that's fine.
 

rcpalmer1

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I have read all 200 post here and hundreds else where. I have not seen much information about nuisance algae. I have a tank that has been running about 6 months. It should be easy to change over to the Triton method. I have been fighting GHA and cyano for the last month. This is what I have.
120 gallon display tank
kessil AP 700
Eflux 3170 return pump in cabinet blow tank, should be able to pump around 2500 GPH, have it running about 75%
4 head dosing pump
axium 160 skimmer
carbon reactor
about 50 frags mostly LPS
8 fish
Currently have 38 par led over fug
cheato has been in system 6 months and is still green but has not grown much- large softball size
phosphate and nitrate are constantly low- i have increased feeding but had a high of .1 and 10. This was a spike after losing a fish and went back down within a few days.
55 watt UV
I have to modify my sump and move my skimmer I will buy a kessil h380.

Am I on the right track?
 

Scott.h

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I have read all 200 post here and hundreds else where. I have not seen much information about nuisance algae. I have a tank that has been running about 6 months. It should be easy to change over to the Triton method. I have been fighting GHA and cyano for the last month. This is what I have.
120 gallon display tank
kessil AP 700
Eflux 3170 return pump in cabinet blow tank, should be able to pump around 2500 GPH, have it running about 75%
4 head dosing pump
axium 160 skimmer
carbon reactor
about 50 frags mostly LPS
8 fish
Currently have 38 par led over fug
cheato has been in system 6 months and is still green but has not grown much- large softball size
phosphate and nitrate are constantly low- i have increased feeding but had a high of .1 and 10. This was a spike after losing a fish and went back down within a few days.
55 watt UV
I have to modify my sump and move my skimmer I will buy a kessil h380.

Am I on the right track?
Yeah. Due to the cyano and low nutrient system you might get rid of some of that macro to let the system balance out some. You aren't carbon dosing or using gfo are you?
 

rcpalmer1

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The only thing I was dosing was BRS 2 part. I stopped a couple of weeks ago but my ALK still has not dropped. I was feeding 3 to cubes plus pellets a day trying to get the nutrients up. They never went up but that was when my algae problem started.
 

Brian W

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What is in each part of the 4 part?

Is part 1 Alkalinity
Part 2 Calcium
Part 3a Magnesium
Part 3b Trace and Macro?

If I need to lower my Alkalinity & Calcium but raise my Magnesium how do I dose?
Right now I'm dosing 3ml of each part.

My measurements are:
Alkalinity- 8.6
Calcium - 475
Magnesium - 1349

Thanks
 

Scott.h

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What is in each part of the 4 part?

Is part 1 Alkalinity
Part 2 Calcium
Part 3a Magnesium
Part 3b Trace and Macro?

If I need to lower my Alkalinity & Calcium but raise my Magnesium how do I dose?
Right now I'm dosing 3ml of each part.

My measurements are:
Alkalinity- 8.6
Calcium - 475
Magnesium - 1349

Thanks
The 3s have the alk in them. But just lower all parts equally. Maybe just skip a day of all 4 bottles and start at 2 ml tomorrow. Always adjust all 4 together equally based on alk. If you then need a boost of something, add it separate. Your numbers look good.
 
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Tim@Triton

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I will post this again... Fixes to the most common balance issues....

Solutions to "balance issues"

Scenario 1
Alk Low
Ca Low
Mg Low
Solution - Raise all equally

Scenario 2
Alk High
Ca High
Mg High
Solution - Lower all equally

Scenario 3
Alk Ok
Ca Ok
Mg Ok
Solution - Maintain dose

Scenario 4
Alk Low
Ca Ok
Mg Ok
Solution - Maintain dose, dose additional TRITON CO3 liquid buffer/NaHCO DIY Salts to raise Alk then maintain

Scenario 5
Alk Ok
Ca Low
Mg Ok
Solution - Maintain dose, dose additional TRITON Calcium liquid buffer/CaCl2 DIY Salts to raise Ca then maintain

Scenario 6
Alk Ok
Ca Ok
Mg Low
Solution - Maintain dose, dose additional TRITON Magnesium liquid buffer/MgCl2 DIY Salts to raise Mg then maintain

Scenario 7
Alk Ok
Ca High
Mg Ok
Solution - Maintain dose on channels 1/3a/3b reduce dose of channel 2 until Calcium level drops to required amount.

Scenario 8
Alk Ok
Ca Ok
Mg High
Solution - Maintain dose, water change to reduce elevated Magnesium levels. (Only if Mg very high)

Scenario 9
Alk Ok
Ca High
Mg High
Solution - Check KH test for accuracy, reduce dose of all solutions, set KH to 7 and retest.
 

Brian W

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I will post this again... Fixes to the most common balance issues....

Solutions to "balance issues"

Scenario 1
Alk Low
Ca Low
Mg Low
Solution - Raise all equally

Scenario 2
Alk High
Ca High
Mg High
Solution - Lower all equally

Scenario 3
Alk Ok
Ca Ok
Mg Ok
Solution - Maintain dose

Scenario 4
Alk Low
Ca Ok
Mg Ok
Solution - Maintain dose, dose additional TRITON CO3 liquid buffer/NaHCO DIY Salts to raise Alk then maintain

Scenario 5
Alk Ok
Ca Low
Mg Ok
Solution - Maintain dose, dose additional TRITON Calcium liquid buffer/CaCl2 DIY Salts to raise Ca then maintain

Scenario 6
Alk Ok
Ca Ok
Mg Low
Solution - Maintain dose, dose additional TRITON Magnesium liquid buffer/MgCl2 DIY Salts to raise Mg then maintain

Scenario 7
Alk Ok
Ca High
Mg Ok
Solution - Maintain dose on channels 1/3a/3b reduce dose of channel 2 until Calcium level drops to required amount.

Scenario 8
Alk Ok
Ca Ok
Mg High
Solution - Maintain dose, water change to reduce elevated Magnesium levels. (Only if Mg very high)

Scenario 9
Alk Ok
Ca High
Mg High
Solution - Check KH test for accuracy, reduce dose of all solutions, set KH to 7 and retest.


thank you
 

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