Hanna Nitrate checker.....

[Bleigh]

I feel like Hanna totally blew the market research on this thing - the problem with nitrate tests isn't accuracy - its that they're difficult-to-impossible to read for most people because most human beings are terrible at color discernment.


This isn't phosphate. I don't care about parts per billion. I just want to be able to tell where I am between those 5 ppm and 40 ppm blobs on the paper chart.

I think that it may be super useful For someone who is running A super low nutrient tank. If I could get mine below 5, I’d be all over this and would Likely think it was worth the headache to ensure I wasn’t running into 0 nutrients. Hopefully they produce a slightly less precise one, with fewer steps, and a larger range. I hate guessing the colors. But I’m not that bothered by it.

 

[jda]

It is not likely all that helpful for people who run lower levels of N (I will not say that this is low nutrient since it is mostly NSW levels and not low for anything natural). Most people who do this understand that they have some nitrate for the macro algae and other organisms that can use it, even if their levels are .1 to .5 and show up "clear" on a test kit that they have some and some is enough. They also understand that micro algae such as zoox cannot use nitrate and need to get their nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium.

In the end, they understand that the N level does not matter as long as it is low, so "clear" on something like Salifert is good enough for them.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

I feel like Hanna totally blew the market research on this thing - the problem with nitrate tests isn't accuracy - its that they're difficult-to-impossible to read for most people because most human beings are terrible at color discernment.


This isn't phosphate. I don't care about parts per billion. I just want to be able to tell where I am between those 5 ppm and 40 ppm blobs on the paper chart.

Yeah, totally agree with that they didn’t understand the market...a shame.
Like @jda said, even if you’re running a ULNS this isn’t really that useful.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Consistent compared to what?

Consistent as in three tests in a row show very close results at low numbers.

I can’t tell colors on a test apart for the life of me, I just killed lots of my acros because I wasn’t reading the salifert Alk test right so I am one that would appreciate a test like this. I probably should have got their alk checker a long time ago but thought I was not having issues.
How many of you that have posted your upset actually need this checker? I only test nitrate once a week or so so I don’t view this test as wasting much of my time. I also knew it was going to be a complicated test before they even said it was coming out so unlike everyone who posted here, I was not upset to see the video.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Consistent as in three tests in a row show very close results at low numbers.

I can’t tell colors on a test apart for the life of me, I just killed lots of my acros because I wasn’t reading the salifert Alk test right so I am one that would appreciate a test like this. I probably should have got their alk checker a long time ago but thought I was not having issues.
How many of you that have posted your upset actually need this checker? I only test nitrate once a week or so so I don’t view this test as wasting much of my time. I also knew it was going to be a complicated test before they even said it was coming out so unlike everyone who posted here, I was not upset to see the video.

Their alk checker is great. Takes less than a minute. My Hanna reads 0.5 dKh higher than my trident and salifert alk test kit though.

 

[Lasse]

I have been very negative to this before because I know a lot of the pitfalls that exist with nitrate readings. However when I saw the video I maybe change my mind because they have put in a lot ow work in order to make it work with this test. However - the most critical part of measure low Nitrate concentration - the nitrite interference - is not handled what I understand. I do not know if they are going to publish the conversion factor in this test or not - but it is needed in order to get the right figure with low Nitrate readings. I had not consider to buy any - but after the video - maybe

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

I feel bad for the Hanna scientists and engineers.

Marketing tells them to make a nitrate test, it will print money.

Scientist and engineers say no. Tester will be too complicated, not enough value.

Marketing beats them over the head for months.

Scientists and engineers do everything they can to make a reliable easy test. They miss deadlines. They miss birthdays with their kids. They end up divorced. They realize dating apps aren’t as fun as they sound. After a very long time they finally deliver the best product they can, but shake their heads knowing it’s too complex.

Consumers reject the product. It’s too complicated and doesn’t provide enough value.

Marketing goes to management and has the scientists and engineers fired.

Scientists and engineers end up homeless holding signs saying will work for reasonable expectations.

The end.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I feel bad for the Hanna scientists and engineers.

Marketing tells them to make a nitrate test, it will print money.

Scientist and engineers say no. Tester will be too complicated, not enough value.

Marketing beats them over the head for months.

Scientists and engineers do everything they can to make a reliable easy test. They miss deadlines. They miss birthdays with their kids. They end up divorced. They realize dating apps aren’t as fun as they sound. After a very long time they finally deliver the best product they can, but shake their heads knowing it’s too complex.

Consumers reject the product. It’s too complicated and doesn’t provide enough value.

Marketing goes to management and has the scientists and engineers fired.

Scientists and engineers end up homeless holding signs saying will work for reasonable expectations.

The end.

Sounds like an Aaron Sorkin film

 

[adobo]

I feel bad for the Hanna scientists and engineers.

Marketing tells them to make a nitrate test, it will print money.

Scientist and engineers say no. Tester will be too complicated, not enough value.

Marketing beats them over the head for months.

Scientists and engineers do everything they can to make a reliable easy test. They miss deadlines. They miss birthdays with their kids. They end up divorced. They realize dating apps aren’t as fun as they sound. After a very long time they finally deliver the best product they can, but shake their heads knowing it’s too complex.

Consumers reject the product. It’s too complicated and doesn’t provide enough value.

Marketing goes to management and has the scientists and engineers fired.

Scientists and engineers end up homeless holding signs saying will work for reasonable expectations.

The end.

That's a neat fantasy. You should write fiction novels.

In my experience, only an engineer would come up with something so astonishingly convoluted and expect a layperson to be able to understand it. Marketing people would be the first to say, what the heck is this?

 

[New Jersey REEF]

Dang I preordered mine but after seeing this video I’m having second thoughts. Waiting period 8 minutes gonna be a killer. Plus too many steps on this one.

My testing choices have been tropical marine 1st, second choice Red Sea nitrates.
We shall see how this one plays out.

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

That's a neat fantasy. You should write fiction novels.

In my experience, only an engineer would come up with something so astonishingly convoluted and expect a layperson to be able to understand it. Marketing people would be the first to say, what the heck is this?

Haha. You are probably right. I hadn’t watched the video yet. No I have. That video is horrendous. There is no way a marketing person made that. HIbillion number this HIbillion number that. And lots of emm ells.

Now seeing the video I think the opposite. The marketing guys said hey engineers and scientists let’s print money. The s&e s said roger that and Wilco. Then went into a locked room for a year. Management was screaming at marketing for the printed money when s&e s finally emerged with this behemoth. Marketing through up their hands and drove home in their red Porsche to see their formal model wives and husbands. The s&e s giggled as they opened up the s&e board.

Consumers rejected the product

The end

 

[Sparkyman]

I ordered mine I think it's going to be fun just to play with. Nothing really changes in my aquarium except growth of corals 6 month new aquarium set up. I don't put too much stock into numbers I can usually tell when something's going wrong just by the looks of what's going on in the aquarium.

 

[Bassmaster116]

Who are nitrates and why are you testing them?Hmmm


Trident/Apex tell me all the digits i want to know, and my glass tells me when im being to generous to my fat little friends.

That being said im also the guy using 110w of UV on a 75g, no QT, and have maybe 1 or 2 tangs in a 75. So maybe you shouldn’t take advice from me?

 

[adobo]

Haha. You are probably right. I hadn’t watched the video yet. No I have. That video is horrendous. There is no way a marketing person made that. HIbillion number this HIbillion number that. And lots of emm ells.

Now seeing the video I think the opposite. The marketing guys said hey engineers and scientists let’s print money. The s&e s said roger that and Wilco. Then went into a locked room for a year. Management was screaming at marketing for the printed money when s&e s finally emerged with this behemoth. Marketing through up their hands and drove home in their red Porsche to see their formal model wives and husbands. The s&e s giggled as they opened up the s&e board.

Consumers rejected the product

The end

Someone once told me that for people who understands calculus, they can have a hard time understanding why anyone struggles with algebra. In my experience, engineers can be like that - they can sometimes give users too much credit in terms of what users can intuit and deduce on their own. They can't fathom a user not being able to understand what an engineer thinks is basic.

Marketing people, on the other hand, deal with stupid customers all the time.

BTW, I imagine the market for aquarium test instruments for nitrate is gonna clock in well below 10,000 units / year. I suspect Hanna would be thrilled to get $250,000 / yr on that product.

 

[Whispers]

Noway all that then wait another 8min I’ll stick to my nyos test kit

 

[Lasse]

Waiting period 8 minutes gonna be a killer.

second choice Red Sea nitrates.

Yes going from a 8 minutes wait into a 9 minutes wait will change every thing

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Cre8or30]

8min plus the time you need to put in... shhhhiiiit I’ll never check my NO3 , it’s a 6 pack job! I’d rather the 6 pack without the job

 

[Lasse]

In order to have a solid ground for decisions that affect my life stocks well and woe - I can wait much, much longer. For me the time and work is nothing - but the trust of the result is everything. If I get a realiby result from the Hanna - its good but they have to - in one or another way - handle the nitrite interactions in levels below 5 ppm. Or at least tell us how to calculate the effect of the nitrites on the finally result from their nitrate checker.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[jda]

I don't think that everybody understands how hard of a problem that it is to be able to accurately test nitrate in the home with precise granularity. Study the chemistry and see if you can do better - hint: you won't be able to.

This test kit will be as good as it gets for people who need something like this. You can bet that nobody wanted to make it this hard. There is a reason why this has not happened before.

Like Lasse said, just wait until the complaints from people who nitrite in any kind of significant number (newer tanks or tanks with issues) and start their complaining or over reaction.

BTW - I think that everybody would be all over this if there was not already some swag type of kits like Salifert, and the like.

 

[adobo]

I don't think that everybody understands how hard of a problem that it is to be able to accurately test nitrate in the home with precise granularity. Study the chemistry and see if you can do better - hint: you won't be able to.

This test kit will be as good as it gets for people who need something like this. You can bet that nobody wanted to make it this hard. There is a reason why this has not happened before.

Like Lasse said, just wait until the complaints from people who nitrite in any kind of significant number (newer tanks or tanks with issues) and start their complaining or over reaction.

BTW - I think that everybody would be all over this if there was not already some swag type of kits like Salifert, and the like.

Its entirely possible that people aren't as dumb as you think they are.

Like any product, the question becomes, what does this give me that I didn't have before? Because it does cost more in terms of money and it costs considerably more in terms of effort. The latter also introduces another problem - it can make the process error prone for the average reef keeper.

Some will say accuracy. Some will say better resolution at lower levels. So on and so on. But what does that really mean in terms of what different actions an average reef keeper would take? And what does it mean in terms of better overall results for the average reef keeper? Because let's remember, Hanna doesn't make products like this just for the ultra geeks in the hobby (maybe 1 in a 100). They want to have just as good market penetration with this product as they get with their alk and phosphate checkers.

Its clear that the process has to be complicated. If there was a simpler way to do the the test and get similar results while not exploding the cost of the checker, I am sure Hanna would have gone that direction. But you can see that there is overwhelming response by the reef community - its not that we think that the people at Hanna are stupid, its that the product that they just came out with is too complex for the average reef keeper - regardless of the reasons why it has to be complex.

And one final thought - for there to be a value proposition to the average reef keeper, the new product with its associated increased costs, need to be able to claim some form of better overall outcome. My question here is, were average reef keepers struggles really associated with lack of precision and low level resolution on nitrate tests?