Help! I can't keep LPS alive (or "easy" SPS either)

[S2G]

This can not be the reason for the death of corals after a month. I constantly keep the level of nitrates and phosphates at 0 - 0.

0 is no bueno.

 

[Schnizzle]

It will be interesting to see what the ICP test results show. Something is going on, and I am thinking it has something to do with your water.

I feel like this should be step one for everyone with mystery issues now. Lol

A ground probe and raising your par also sound like solid advice. I have the same tank dimensions and I’m around 100 at the sand bed and 250 at the peaks.

 

[King Turkey]

I feel like this should be step one for everyone with mystery issues now. Lol

A ground probe and raising your par also sound like solid advice. I have the same tank dimensions and I’m around 100 at the sand bed and 250 at the peaks.

I agree but he needs to bump up nitrate keep phosphate low. I did my tank with corals at month 3.5 4ish with zero issues zero coral losses. nitrate is essential for corals so is phosphate but at a much lower level I would look into emulating what natural sea water ratio is.

 

[abossi2]

Thank everyone for your helpful replies! I don't think electricity is the issue because from day one I have used a ground probe and a combo arc fault/ground fault breaker for the room the tank is in.

I sent the ICP test off a couple days ago - so looking forward to seeing if it spots anything major out of whack that I can't test for.

It does sound like the consensus is to increase nitrates and increase par. I am reducing the hours I have the Chaeto lit (may end up just stopping using it but I do like it for the pod habitat in the refugium).

Par increasing is going to be tough to do without adding another light. I have the 2 hydra 26s already maxed on the UV and Violet, there is room to increase the royal blue and blue some. Changing the glass top out for an open/net top would likely help (I think I read somewhere that the glass top can reduce par by 5% or so.

I think that the GSP and Chaeto are sucking up the Nitrates as they grow fast causing the smaller/slower corals to starve.

Again - thank you all the feedback!

 

[Schnizzle]

Can you physically lower your lights? I’m about to do that with mine once I get time to rent a par meter.

 

[S2G]

Thank everyone for your helpful replies! I don't think electricity is the issue because from day one I have used a ground probe and a combo arc fault/ground fault breaker for the room the tank is in.

I sent the ICP test off a couple days ago - so looking forward to seeing if it spots anything major out of whack that I can't test for.

It does sound like the consensus is to increase nitrates and increase par. I am reducing the hours I have the Chaeto lit (may end up just stopping using it but I do like it for the pod habitat in the refugium).

Par increasing is going to be tough to do without adding another light. I have the 2 hydra 26s already maxed on the UV and Violet, there is room to increase the royal blue and blue some. Changing the glass top out for an open/net top would likely help (I think I read somewhere that the glass top can reduce par by 5% or so.

I think that the GSP and Chaeto are sucking up the Nitrates as they grow fast causing the smaller/slower corals to starve.

Again - thank you all the feedback!

I'd do small changes 1 thing at a time. Maybe start 5ppm nitrate for a month then go from there. Once you get your nutrients at a good point try raising par slowly.

 

[TheShrimpNibbler]

Sounds kind of like a combination of low light and low nutrients to me.

 

[abossi2]

@S2G great advice - I will definitely change one thing at a time (starting with Nitrate) and do it slowly.

What is best way to increase nitrate? I am starting to lower my Chaeto lighting hours. I have already lowered the water level in my skimmer over the past few weeks where it is not skimming anything (only really running it to add oxygen to the water). However, I don't expect that to get me all the way there. Should I dose a Nitrate solution like NeoNitro? I don't think I want to do stump remover for fear of what else is in it.

 

[Shirak]

I am running a chaeto refuge also and yes it eats nutrients up very effectively. Mine runs primarily at night to help balance pH as well as keep pods happy etc. I am dosing NeoNitro and NeoPhos along with aminos on a daily basis. I am looking into either sodium nitrate or potassium nitrate solution once I get my potassium kit to see where K is at. The NeoPhos lasts alot longer since much less is needed but you can go through the NeoNitro fairly quickly.

Before I had a dosing pump I was just testing each morning to see where NO3 and PO4 were and dosing what was needed. It was a fairly consistent from day to day.

 

[ScottB]

@S2G great advice - I will definitely change one thing at a time (starting with Nitrate) and do it slowly.

What is best way to increase nitrate? I am starting to lower my Chaeto lighting hours. I have already lowered the water level in my skimmer over the past few weeks where it is not skimming anything (only really running it to add oxygen to the water). However, I don't expect that to get me all the way there. Should I dose a Nitrate solution like NeoNitro? I don't think I want to do stump remover for fear of what else is in it.

Agree low light and nutrient are limiting your reef.
Agree small, incremental changes to correct for both.
Most fun way of adding nitrates is to add more fish. Did you post a fish list? Otherwise your above suggestions should raise levels.

 

[S2G]

@S2G great advice - I will definitely change one thing at a time (starting with Nitrate) and do it slowly.

What is best way to increase nitrate? I am starting to lower my Chaeto lighting hours. I have already lowered the water level in my skimmer over the past few weeks where it is not skimming anything (only really running it to add oxygen to the water). However, I don't expect that to get me all the way there. Should I dose a Nitrate solution like NeoNitro? I don't think I want to do stump remover for fear of what else is in it.

You'll need to ask one of the sps low nutrient folks about dosing nitrates etc. The easiest process for me is a big skimmer 1st then ramp up/down fuge as needed to maintain levels.

I hate giving numbers but what's been a good recipe for me is levels similar to yours except with 10ppm no3, .1 po4, 20-30x flow, and 150-200par. Up to Monti did well but I flunked out of sps school in general.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Yes, I use a refractometer to test salinity and I have calibrated it with 35ppt calibration solution (once a year). In addition, I tested some water from my LFS a few weeks ago and it was 1.026 like they said it would be. Therefore, I feel good that my salinity readings are accurate.

You really should use calibration fluid every time before you test your water. Also remember that calibration fluid can go bad. IMO it is good that you also check your LFS water as a backup.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@S2G great advice - I will definitely change one thing at a time (starting with Nitrate) and do it slowly.

What is best way to increase nitrate? I am starting to lower my Chaeto lighting hours. I have already lowered the water level in my skimmer over the past few weeks where it is not skimming anything (only really running it to add oxygen to the water). However, I don't expect that to get me all the way there. Should I dose a Nitrate solution like NeoNitro? I don't think I want to do stump remover for fear of what else is in it.

You could trim your chaeto.

While your nutrients are low, if you are only using a skimmer and chaeto to control them, you should be fine. I only use a skimmer and my NO3 stays around 0.2 ppm and my PO4 stays around 0.03 ppm. I do feed Reef Energy every day as well as feed my fish twice a day. I also feed ReefRoids about 2-3 times a week or an additional frozen coral food. My tank is a mixed reef with soft, LPS, and SPS corals. 20+ different colonies.

I would say that your major issue is light. My PAR runs from 170 at the bottom to 450 at the surface. You could add more LED lights or you could add a hybrid fixture to include T5 lighting. I run a hybrid. My tank is about 45 gallons total with sump.

 

[cedwards04]

I have been having similar issues to you as well. My tank is a 48x24x20 100g. I also run a pair of ai hydra26hd's on the ab+ program. Water parameters were always close to yours. Very little nutrients in the tank. After testing for voltage in the water, and doing an icp test, I concluded after a lot of research and talking with other reefers that my water was just simply too clean. I began dosing nitrates and phosphates directly, and must say, my tank is looking MUCH better. I can't comment on exactly what the sweet spot for nutrients is for me yet, as I am still experimenting there, but can tell you that my tank and coral responded very well to having more nutrients. I am currently slowly working my way towards trying the redfield ratio numbers. Attempting to hold nitrates at 5ppm and bringing phosphates up to 0.5ppm. We'll see what happens.

I also run an aquatic life 36" t5 hybrid with 4 ati blue+ bulbs. I'll attach pictures of my par readings using an apogee 210 par meter, as well as the redfield ratio article discussing nutrient balance. I can't say if the redfield ratio is complete crap or if it's legit, as I am still slowly working my way to that balance, but can for sure say that having nitrates and phosphates well above 0 has helped my coral health without question. Hope this helps.

Attaching pics of my tank. I only have a few corals left, but the ones that made it are looking good. This tank has been up since august 2019. One of the torches and the acans were moved from my old tank into this one, the other torch and the zoas have been in this tank for around 3 months.

 

[cedwards04]

Forgot to add, my lights are mounted 12" from the surface.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I have been having similar issues to you as well. My tank is a 48x24x20 100g. I also run a pair of ai hydra26hd's on the ab+ program. Water parameters were always close to yours. Very little nutrients in the tank. After testing for voltage in the water, and doing an icp test, I concluded after a lot of research and talking with other reefers that my water was just simply too clean. I began dosing nitrates and phosphates directly, and must say, my tank is looking MUCH better. I can't comment on exactly what the sweet spot for nutrients is for me yet, as I am still experimenting there, but can tell you that my tank and coral responded very well to having more nutrients. I am currently slowly working my way towards trying the redfield ratio numbers. Attempting to hold nitrates at 5ppm and bringing phosphates up to 0.5ppm. We'll see what happens.

I also run an aquatic life 36" t5 hybrid with 4 ati blue+ bulbs. I'll attach pictures of my par readings using an apogee 210 par meter, as well as the redfield ratio article discussing nutrient balance. I can't say if the redfield ratio is complete crap or if it's legit, as I am still slowly working my way to that balance, but can for sure say that having nitrates and phosphates well above 0 has helped my coral health without question. Hope this helps.

Attaching pics of my tank. I only have a few corals left, but the ones that made it are looking good. This tank has been up since august 2019. One of the torches and the acans were moved from my old tank into this one, the other torch and the zoas have been in this tank for around 3 months.

Question, were you always running the hybrid lights at your current intensity? If not, when did you start?

While the Redfield ratio is a good guide, it wasn't developed for corals, or the zooxanthellae they contain. Also, remember that the nutrients that you are measuring are excess nutrients that are simply available to any life in the aquarium that uses them.

 

[cedwards04]

Question, were you always running the hybrid lights at your current intensity? If not, when did you start?

While the Redfield ratio is a good guide, it wasn't developed for corals, or the zooxanthellae they contain. Also, remember that the nutrients that you are measuring are excess nutrients that are simply available to any life in the aquarium that uses them.

These par values were measured a few weeks ago. I was actually running much higher numbers before. The lights were at about 8" from the water surface and I had really poor distribution and a lot of hot spots so to speak. I would be getting 50 par at some spots of the sandbed, and getting nearly 200par at others. Middle of the tank I was seeing anywhere from 100 par to as high as 450 par. After moving the lights up, I got a much more even blanket of light and coverage. now my par values stay almost exactly the same in all areas of the tank with no significant hot spots at all. This may have some to do with the coral health, but for the most part, the corals that are left did not change much in par from where they have been all along. I feel like it is more likely the nutrients than the lighting, although it is entirely possible it is a combination of both.

As far as the redfield ratio is concerned, to be perfectly honest, I think the whole idea is crap. But I do want to test it before just tossing it aside as I have read a few instances of people claiming it fixed their algae/cyano/dino issues. It's kinda one of those "dont knock it until you try it" scenarios for me. I personally feel like keeping nutrients somewhere in the 3-10ppm nitrate and 0.02-0.1ppm range would be sufficient so long as they were stable somewhere in that range. That being said, I'm far from an expert as I have only been in the hobby about 3 years, and my opinion is solely based on what I have read from others and not my own experimenting. I am hoping to find myself a concrete answer on the ratios, at least for my tank anyway. I should hit that ratio I am looking for in the next few days, at that point I will attempt to maintain it as best as possible and see what happens in regards to both coral health as well as nuisance algae/bacterial growth as I seem to have both issues currently.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

These par values were measured a few weeks ago. I was actually running much higher numbers before. The lights were at about 8" from the water surface and I had really poor distribution and a lot of hot spots so to speak. I would be getting 50 par at some spots of the sandbed, and getting nearly 200par at others. Middle of the tank I was seeing anywhere from 100 par to as high as 450 par. After moving the lights up, I got a much more even blanket of light and coverage. now my par values stay almost exactly the same in all areas of the tank with no significant hot spots at all. This may have some to do with the coral health, but for the most part, the corals that are left did not change much in par from where they have been all along. I feel like it is more likely the nutrients than the lighting, although it is entirely possible it is a combination of both.

As far as the redfield ratio is concerned, to be perfectly honest, I think the whole idea is crap. But I do want to test it before just tossing it aside as I have read a few instances of people claiming it fixed their algae/cyano/dino issues. It's kinda one of those "dont knock it until you try it" scenarios for me. I personally feel like keeping nutrients somewhere in the 3-10ppm nitrate and 0.02-0.1ppm range would be sufficient so long as they were stable somewhere in that range. That being said, I'm far from an expert as I have only been in the hobby about 3 years, and my opinion is solely based on what I have read from others and not my own experimenting. I am hoping to find myself a concrete answer on the ratios, at least for my tank anyway. I should hit that ratio I am looking for in the next few days, at that point I will attempt to maintain it as best as possible and see what happens in regards to both coral health as well as nuisance algae/bacterial growth as I seem to have both issues currently.

@cedwards04, my hybrid is 11.5" above the water and I have an even spread of light as well.

I agree with your nutrient ranges as being fine. I wouldn't chase numbers, your tank will settle into its sweet spot. I can't get my NO3 above 0.5 ppm, but everything is growing well with great color, so I have accepted that as my tanks sweet spot.

 

[abossi2]

I have been having similar issues to you as well. My tank is a 48x24x20 100g. I also run a pair of ai hydra26hd's on the ab+ program. Water parameters were always close to yours. Very little nutrients in the tank. After testing for voltage in the water, and doing an icp test, I concluded after a lot of research and talking with other reefers that my water was just simply too clean. I began dosing nitrates and phosphates directly, and must say, my tank is looking MUCH better. I can't comment on exactly what the sweet spot for nutrients is for me yet, as I am still experimenting there, but can tell you that my tank and coral responded very well to having more nutrients. I am currently slowly working my way towards trying the redfield ratio numbers. Attempting to hold nitrates at 5ppm and bringing phosphates up to 0.5ppm. We'll see what happens.

@cedwards04 Thank you for all the detail! I am curious what you have been dosing for nitrates and phosphates? Also curious what filtration you are using (I am thinking my Chaeto is a big part of why my water is "too clean")?

Thanks!

 

[Samina]

Do you dip your frags before you place them in your display?