Help me choose the right controller

[alabella1]

I've recently upgraded from a RSM250 to an Aquavim 150 gallon corner tank. The only things I def. had planned to run are the Eshopps RS 200 sump, Eshopps 200 skimmer, 2x aquatop 400w titanium heaters, 2x Ecotech MP40s QD w' mobius and an MP10 JIC i need it, Tunze ATO. I have a vectra M2 but that could change based on controller. For lights I'm in between the neptune sky which I have one currently and G5 radions - X30 and X15, I was going to test both and see which I like better. All ecotech gear is mobius, not sure about downgradability of them. 2x aqua HOB UVs 15watt.

I've been reading and reading trying to decide where to go from there. I've obviously been looking at Apex, GHL and Hydros. I'd love to have a one stop shop for controlling pumps and lights, monitoring, testing as many parameters automatically as I can, dosing, auto top off, etc. I work in IT/hardware support mostly so I'm fairly good with the technical end of things.

I just want something reliable, good track record, future upgrades, great app, web and/or mgmt from my laptop. Let's assume no real budget although I don't want to mortgage my home. It's a mixed reef with tons of different coral and a variety of fish and inverts.

(Disclaimer... I have a ton of Apex stuff in my possession because I grabbed it on the cheap from a guy who broke down his tank. I may or may not sell some of it, add to it, upgrade it, depending on which way I go. APEX EL, 2x EB832, 2x FMM modules, PM1, COR20, 2x FMK kits, ATK kit, DOS w' 2x 1 gallon slim reservoirs. If I go APEX I am entertaining swapping the COR20 for the Vectra, possibly unloading the EL for the full Apex head and if I love the skys going with a second one.)

 

[Gtinnel]

I’ve only used an Apex so I can’t comment on which system would be best for you, or anyone else for that matter. Since you already have everything for an apex system why not hook it up and see how well you like it?

Edit- If you do go with Apex, everything the full head unit does can be added to the EL version with modules. It would probably be cheaper just to add the modules than getting a new head unit.

 

[TheHarold]

Having used all three…. It’s hard to go wrong with Apex. Easy to use, reliable, a huge customer base to get advice from, and very good product support,

 

[alabella1]

I'm hearing bad things about the trident and the EB32s

 

[Gtinnel]

I'm hearing bad things about the trident and the EB32s

I’ve been using my trident for a year and other than recently having to flush the gunk out of the lines (which I believe they addressed by adding an intake filter) I’ve never had any problems with mine.
I have also read many things about the EB832 failing, but all I can say is that mine has been reliable for the year or so that I’ve had it. I read somewhere that they started using a different component inside of the newer ones that was supposed to help with that problem.

 

[alabella1]

Not sure that I have newer ones.

 

[gbru316]

Keep in mind, people generally aren't going to make posts detailing their satisfaction with a product. They're much more likely to post dissatisfaction.

I've been happy with my Trident and 832 (and entire Apex system) so far.

 

[Rovert]

I've been reading and reading trying to decide where to go from there. I've obviously been looking at Apex, GHL and Hydros. I'd love to have a one stop shop for controlling pumps and lights, monitoring, testing as many parameters automatically as I can, dosing, auto top off, etc. I work in IT/hardware support mostly so I'm fairly good with the technical end of things.

Also in the same boat, thanks for posting! I hesitated to ask such a question for fear of starting 'controller wars' here on the forum.

That said, I think you'll wind up with a 'hybrid' system if you have power heads, because it's hard to beat the Hydros WaveEngine. It's a brilliant piece of equipment and in the long run both reduces cost and complexity.

For example, I bought 2x MaxSpect XF350 gyres, and plan on two small power heads to deal with the low-flow areas of my tank. Without the WE, I'd need the Max controller at $130 and, say, two of the Ecotech controllers at $90 each for a total $310 in electronics to have three separate controllers to fiddle around with. That cost pays for the WE alone and consumes 4 of the WE ports, but there is still the opportunity to control a 0-10v return pump or skimmer. That's five pumps in total, for anyone who's counting. It can also be controlled by the Apex.

So at the end, it's lower cost, lower equipment count, less programming hassle with multiple apps and all can be managed by an Apex or Hydros, whichever you choose in the end.

Win-Win, where I'm concerned.

 

[srobertb]

I have the Hydros and Neptune Apex

Why did I choose Neptune Apex for my main display tank?

Because it works (knock on wood). It’s the “pro” version. It has Ethernet so it can be hardwired (Who trusts $20k+ of equipment and live creatures to the cheapest-sourced 2.4ghz radio?).

In 3-4 years I’ve had the head unit disconnect and need a restart 2x. You can throw it on a Wi-Fi enabled outlet and do that remotely.


The modules and options are literally limitless. 12V, 24v, and anywhere in between devices can be integrated including 0-10v. Programming is a quick learning curve and anyone on here will help you program/write the basic code for anything quickly.

Redundancy. I can daisy chain devices together easily via standard USB cables to create multiple pathways back to the head unit in case of failure.

It’s so easy to setup. I lost an EB832 on vacation. I got a message at 6am that my return pump was off. Turns out the 24v ports died. When I got home, I plugged in a 1link module, moved the return pump to it, and it worked again complete with programming. Late at night after walking around a theme park for hours and flying for several more, I was up and running in 5 minutes.

Keep your lights separate. This shouldn’t be a deciding factor in picking lights or a controller (but I hear ok things about the sky). I run Radions and they don’t talk to the Apex but lights need to be set and then left alone. There’s no reason to program lights more than once with a PAR meter (with a tweak maybe in 3 months then again in 12 months then never again). Trust me on this. It’s one of my top 5 most important tips.

It controls dosing, monitoring, returns, feeding, and gives me a 99.9% up-time view of my aquarium from anywhere in the world and allows me to reliably make minor changes, turn things off, etc.

WHY I DON’T LIKE APEX: The EB832 is poorly made. From its weird form factor, cheap plastic, and inferior interior components… It’s just awful. Comparing to the old power bar that was a chunk of Detroit steel, I have no idea who they thought would think this was an upgrade.

I’ve lost the 24v ports on one and the AC ports on another within 6 months on 2 EB832’s that were less than 2 years old.

They are closing their ecosystem (or eco tech and Coralvue are) which sucks.

Their leak sensor modules suck. I have 2 of every flavor sitting in a bin of misfit toys. I use Ring devices for this and they are much better.

PRO TIPS FOR APEX: Spread devices over multiple modules and create different pathways back to your head unit. Don’t overtax any module. Try and aim to only use 60-70% of each module or power bar’s power ports.

Learn what a buck converter is if you don’t know. They’re cheap, easy to wire, and can turn any 24v port into a 0-24v port.

Hardwire it.

CORAL VUE HYDROS- What do I like? I’m still looking. I purchased the system for 2 tanks (10g SW and 20g FW planted) next to each other. I got it because it was cheap. I also made the mistake of buying the 4-outlet Wi-Fi power strips. They’re awful and make the EB832’s look like Rolls Royce’s. Ultimately it’s just fine for these 2 tanks. My SW tank is a rock flower tank and could probably go 24 hours. FW probably longer.

I own the 8-outlet power bar (now), the Sensor module, and the control 4 module. I also own the temp sensors, solenoid (for CO2), the feeder, and the dosing pump

You can not use these with an EERO mesh network or any mesh network where the 2.4ghz and 5ghz channel are combined. I would get 5-10 emails and messages that the powerbar disconnected/reconnected every day. I started ignoring them (which is dangerous in this hobby).

I upgraded to the Hydros 8 outlet power bar and it’s been far more solid but I also added a dedicated 2.4ghz Wi-Fi network to my home (it cost $50 on Amazon). It’s still annoy

I use dedicated always on tablets for both systems. The Apex tablet updates in real time, the Hydros does not. It’s slow to update sometimes so I have to hit refresh, wait 10 seconds, hit the feed button, hopefully it works.

The number of ports is limited. I could try and figure it out exactly but off the top of my head, to rewire my big tank, I would need to 8-outlet power bars, 2 control8 units (maybe a control8+control4) and probably a sensor unit and I’d still be missing features.

Whoever wrote this software should go work as a dom in a dungeon or at the DMV. It’s painful. It’s frustrating. It makes very little sense. If you do things in the wrong order it breaks.

Setting it up is also painful. Everything needs
To be plugged in correctly and if it isn’t, it will break (and lord does it break). I wake up to “collective broken” messages once every few months and the whole thing has to be rebuilt and I pray I don’t have to reprogram or flatline any of the devices.

The Sensor module is the red headed step child in the system. I think the issue is that it takes longer to boot than the others so it breaks the collective because the other two boot faster and time out.

Because I touched on Aesthetics, I’ll mention that the glowing cheap lights that flash are dumb. They’re not helpful. I don’t need it to glow red
To let me know it isn’t connected to the internet. The fact I can’t access it is enough. Like an alarm that goes off when your arm is chopped off. 99.9% sure I’m fully aware of the issue.


conclusion (thanks for sticking with me): The Hydros is fine if you have extra time, are home a lot, and want something really basic. I think it’s important to foster new tech in this hobby and I’m begrudgingly happy to fund progress. If you plan on putting time, effort, money, and sensitive life forms in your tank, you need things to just work and want to reliably monitor, control, and access nearly everything, go with the Apex. I firmly believe the quasi-token Ethernet ring connections + (debatably) BNC connectors are a hardware-level failure and so Hydros will need to scrap the hardware and come out with a version 2. The apex uses very standard connections and so new devices can be added and upgraded without having to revamp the entire system.

SIDE NOTE: I have owned the WaveEngine for some time now. I use it on my big tank with the Apex. I went through several ICV controllers for my Gyre XF350’s (they kept dying) before finally switching to the wave engine. The software is back-butt-wards in design but once it’s programmed, it has been very reliable for me. The software in the beginning was TERRIBLE TERRIBLE but now it’s only awful so they’re improving.

Tech Support: Both are good. Neptune is better for troubleshooting and programming. Coralvue is more likely to replace broken items.

 

[srobertb]

Also in the same boat, thanks for posting! I hesitated to ask such a question for fear of starting 'controller wars' here on the forum.

That said, I think you'll wind up with a 'hybrid' system if you have power heads, because it's hard to beat the Hydros WaveEngine. It's a brilliant piece of equipment and in the long run both reduces cost and complexity.

For example, I bought 2x MaxSpect XF350 gyres, and plan on two small power heads to deal with the low-flow areas of my tank. Without the WE, I'd need the Max controller at $130 and, say, two of the Ecotech controllers at $90 each for a total $310 in electronics to have three separate controllers to fiddle around with. That cost pays for the WE alone and consumes 4 of the WE ports, but there is still the opportunity to control a 0-10v return pump or skimmer. That's five pumps in total, for anyone who's counting. It can also be controlled by the Apex.

So at the end, it's lower cost, lower equipment count, less programming hassle with multiple apps and all can be managed by an Apex or Hydros, whichever you choose in the end.

Win-Win, where I'm concerned.

Agree. I run an Apex on my main tank. I went through several ICV6 controllers for my Gyre XF350’s (they kept dying and the pumps would run slow). Coralvue replaced 2 of them then told me I was on my own. I switched to the Wave Engine.

In the beginning (years ago) the software was hot raw garbage. Now it’s just trash. But it’s reliable trash. I highly recommend it in tandem
with the Apex. Given my issues with the 24v ports on my Apex, I would be wary of hooking up powerheads to them.

 

[alabella1]

I have the Hydros and Neptune Apex

Why did I choose Neptune Apex for my main display tank?

Because it works (knock on wood). It’s the “pro” version. It has Ethernet so it can be hardwired (Who trusts $20k+ of equipment and live creatures to the cheapest-sourced 2.4ghz radio?).

In 3-4 years I’ve had the head unit disconnect and need a restart 2x. You can throw it on a Wi-Fi enabled outlet and do that remotely.


The modules and options are literally limitless. 12V, 24v, and anywhere in between devices can be integrated including 0-10v. Programming is a quick learning curve and anyone on here will help you program/write the basic code for anything quickly.

Redundancy. I can daisy chain devices together easily via standard USB cables to create multiple pathways back to the head unit in case of failure.

It’s so easy to setup. I lost an EB832 on vacation. I got a message at 6am that my return pump was off. Turns out the 24v ports died. When I got home, I plugged in a 1link module, moved the return pump to it, and it worked again complete with programming. Late at night after walking around a theme park for hours and flying for several more, I was up and running in 5 minutes.

Keep your lights separate. This shouldn’t be a deciding factor in picking lights or a controller (but I hear ok things about the sky). I run Radions and they don’t talk to the Apex but lights need to be set and then left alone. There’s no reason to program lights more than once with a PAR meter (with a tweak maybe in 3 months then again in 12 months then never again). Trust me on this. It’s one of my top 5 most important tips.

It controls dosing, monitoring, returns, feeding, and gives me a 99.9% up-time view of my aquarium from anywhere in the world and allows me to reliably make minor changes, turn things off, etc.

WHY I DON’T LIKE APEX: The EB832 is poorly made. From its weird form factor, cheap plastic, and inferior interior components… It’s just awful. Comparing to the old power bar that was a chunk of Detroit steel, I have no idea who they thought would think this was an upgrade.

I’ve lost the 24v ports on one and the AC ports on another within 6 months on 2 EB832’s that were less than 2 years old.

They are closing their ecosystem (or eco tech and Coralvue are) which sucks.

Their leak sensor modules suck. I have 2 of every flavor sitting in a bin of misfit toys. I use Ring devices for this and they are much better.

PRO TIPS FOR APEX: Spread devices over multiple modules and create different pathways back to your head unit. Don’t overtax any module. Try and aim to only use 60-70% of each module or power bar’s power ports.

Learn what a buck converter is if you don’t know. They’re cheap, easy to wire, and can turn any 24v port into a 0-24v port.

Hardwire it.

CORAL VUE HYDROS- What do I like? I’m still looking. I purchased the system for 2 tanks (10g SW and 20g FW planted) next to each other. I got it because it was cheap. I also made the mistake of buying the 4-outlet Wi-Fi power strips. They’re awful and make the EB832’s look like Rolls Royce’s. Ultimately it’s just fine for these 2 tanks. My SW tank is a rock flower tank and could probably go 24 hours. FW probably longer.

I own the 8-outlet power bar (now), the Sensor module, and the control 4 module. I also own the temp sensors, solenoid (for CO2), the feeder, and the dosing pump

You can not use these with an EERO mesh network or any mesh network where the 2.4ghz and 5ghz channel are combined. I would get 5-10 emails and messages that the powerbar disconnected/reconnected every day. I started ignoring them (which is dangerous in this hobby).

I upgraded to the Hydros 8 outlet power bar and it’s been far more solid but I also added a dedicated 2.4ghz Wi-Fi network to my home (it cost $50 on Amazon). It’s still annoy

I use dedicated always on tablets for both systems. The Apex tablet updates in real time, the Hydros does not. It’s slow to update sometimes so I have to hit refresh, wait 10 seconds, hit the feed button, hopefully it works.

The number of ports is limited. I could try and figure it out exactly but off the top of my head, to rewire my big tank, I would need to 8-outlet power bars, 2 control8 units (maybe a control8+control4) and probably a sensor unit and I’d still be missing features.

Whoever wrote this software should go work as a dom in a dungeon or at the DMV. It’s painful. It’s frustrating. It makes very little sense. If you do things in the wrong order it breaks.

Setting it up is also painful. Everything needs
To be plugged in correctly and if it isn’t, it will break (and lord does it break). I wake up to “collective broken” messages once every few months and the whole thing has to be rebuilt and I pray I don’t have to reprogram or flatline any of the devices.

The Sensor module is the red headed step child in the system. I think the issue is that it takes longer to boot than the others so it breaks the collective because the other two boot faster and time out.

Because I touched on Aesthetics, I’ll mention that the glowing cheap lights that flash are dumb. They’re not helpful. I don’t need it to glow red
To let me know it isn’t connected to the internet. The fact I can’t access it is enough. Like an alarm that goes off when your arm is chopped off. 99.9% sure I’m fully aware of the issue.


conclusion (thanks for sticking with me): The Hydros is fine if you have extra time, are home a lot, and want something really basic. I think it’s important to foster new tech in this hobby and I’m begrudgingly happy to fund progress. If you plan on putting time, effort, money, and sensitive life forms in your tank, you need things to just work and want to reliably monitor, control, and access nearly everything, go with the Apex. I firmly believe the quasi-token Ethernet ring connections + (debatably) BNC connectors are a hardware-level failure and so Hydros will need to scrap the hardware and come out with a version 2. The apex uses very standard connections and so new devices can be added and upgraded without having to revamp the entire system.

SIDE NOTE: I have owned the WaveEngine for some time now. I use it on my big tank with the Apex. I went through several ICV controllers for my Gyre XF350’s (they kept dying) before finally switching to the wave engine. The software is back-butt-wards in design but once it’s programmed, it has been very reliable for me. The software in the beginning was TERRIBLE TERRIBLE but now it’s only awful so they’re improving.

Tech Support: Both are good. Neptune is better for troubleshooting and programming. Coralvue is more likely to replace broken items.

Love it. Thanks for this. I can say as someone in IT, I hard wire as much as I can. Wireless is the bain of my existence and I do this for a living. That being said I have already created a 2.4 network in my house as most of my appliance and smart devices work better and more reliably on it. How do you feel about Apex vs Apex EL. I hear the sailinity probe is not accurate and no one even knows what ORP is. Let's assume i want to eliminate the EB832 what can I go with instead? Do the older ones have all the I/O capabilities of the new ones?

 

[ScubaFish802]

Following along - bump

 

[radfly]

I've recently upgraded from a RSM250 to an Aquavim 150 gallon corner tank. The only things I def. had planned to run are the Eshopps RS 200 sump, Eshopps 200 skimmer, 2x aquatop 400w titanium heaters, 2x Ecotech MP40s QD w' mobius and an MP10 JIC i need it, Tunze ATO. I have a vectra M2 but that could change based on controller. For lights I'm in between the neptune sky which I have one currently and G5 radions - X30 and X15, I was going to test both and see which I like better. All ecotech gear is mobius, not sure about downgradability of them. 2x aqua HOB UVs 15watt.

I've been reading and reading trying to decide where to go from there. I've obviously been looking at Apex, GHL and Hydros. I'd love to have a one stop shop for controlling pumps and lights, monitoring, testing as many parameters automatically as I can, dosing, auto top off, etc. I work in IT/hardware support mostly so I'm fairly good with the technical end of things.

I just want something reliable, good track record, future upgrades, great app, web and/or mgmt from my laptop. Let's assume no real budget although I don't want to mortgage my home. It's a mixed reef with tons of different coral and a variety of fish and inverts.

(Disclaimer... I have a ton of Apex stuff in my possession because I grabbed it on the cheap from a guy who broke down his tank. I may or may not sell some of it, add to it, upgrade it, depending on which way I go. APEX EL, 2x EB832, 2x FMM modules, PM1, COR20, 2x FMK kits, ATK kit, DOS w' 2x 1 gallon slim reservoirs. If I go APEX I am entertaining swapping the COR20 for the Vectra, possibly unloading the EL for the full Apex head and if I love the skys going with a second one.)

Just received my ApexEL yesterday, plugged things into the energy bar, and noticed the first outlet was not reporting power consumption. So, opened a ticket with Neptune and they reply with a copy and paste letter on how to telnet into the unit and reset calibration...

I was a tier 1 and 2 CSR for a high technology company for 16 years, I would never assume the normal Apex customer base knew anything about Telnet... so my reply was not sparkling.

So, I am going to work on the unit myself, as it is apparent Neptune customer service is a bit below scale.

But, so far, liking the ApexEL. Food for thought.

 

[rtparty]

I have used all three but have the most time and money into Hydros and Apex. More time into Apex but more money into Hydros.

I am selling all of my Hydros stuff in the very near future. Nothing but issues from day one with their hardware. Hydros has replaced every item except the Control 4 at this point so whoever buys it is getting a bascially brand new system for less.

The Hydros has some good things about it but my Apex has been far more reliable. Like zero failures in 7 years type of reliable.

 

[alabella1]

So... Let's assume I pick up EB8s to replace the EB832s. What functionality am I losing and can I get it back with a module or two?

 

[alabella1]

So... because I am psychotic about EVERYTHING I do in my life I continued to read on about EB832 vs EB8 and I stumbled across a post in a forum which led me here - https://www.fixreef.com/

Turns out the reason the 832s are so unreliable is because they put a $1.50 part in the PSU. This company offers a service where you can ship them your 832s and they make the necessary upgrades to more reliable parts.

Waiting on an estimate to get my 2x EB832s upgraded and then I'm off and rolling.

 

[Rovert]

Keep your lights separate... There’s no reason to program lights more than once with a PAR meter (with a tweak maybe in 3 months then again in 12 months then never again). Trust me on this. It’s one of my top 5 most important tips.

For programming, perhaps. But to control modes based on conditions is important. For example, if i wanted to use the red channel only for my Photons to introduce new fish or do some 'pod-watching' at night, that would be one reason to have different settings.

the glowing cheap lights that flash are dumb. They’re not helpful. I don’t need it to glow red
To let me know it isn’t connected to the internet.

LOL That was the first thing I turned off.

Greaty synopsis. It's a reassuring to hear from someone with experience who uses and knows both systems. Thanks for the insight!

 

[radfly]

So... Let's assume I pick up EB8s to replace the EB832s. What functionality am I losing and can I get it back with a module or two?

The EB8 uses solid state relays on six outputs, and these will not make closure for items that draw very little power. Plus, there are other issues with it.

 

[Rovert]

So... because I am psychotic about EVERYTHING I do in my life I continued to read on about EB832 vs EB8 and I stumbled across a post in a forum which led me here - https://www.fixreef.com/

Turns out the reason the 832s are so unreliable is because they put a $1.50 part in the PSU. This company offers a service where you can ship them your 832s and they make the necessary upgrades to more reliable parts.

Waiting on an estimate to get my 2x EB832s upgraded and then I'm off and rolling.

Please report back here when you get that quote? I'm strongly inclined to the Apex system, but the power bar issue has me a bit nervous...

 

[alabella1]

Ok, so update on this whole deal. I spoke with @_AV who was a huge help. He was able to tell via the serial number and me sending a few pix that I have a newer version EB832 that was made with better parts and should not suffer the dreaded $1.50 part burnout.