Herbie Overflow with Flow Sensors?

[BrandonP]

Alright so I need everyones' opinion here.

I have a 120 gallon tank. I believe it is an Aqueon. It has two overflow boxes with the undersized holes drilled for 1 inch ABS bulkheads ;Rage. Currently I am running a single durso in each overflow box. I am building a new sump and when I install the sump I am planning on running a Herbie drain in each overflow with the returns running behind and over the back side of the tank. The dursos are terribly noisy and do not provide much redundancy. I am hoping the Herbie method will be much more quiet as well as add redundancy.

I do not have an Apex currently, but I am planning on purchasing one soon. When planning out the upgrade I thought of an idea regarding Apex's FFM. My question is, would it be advantageous of me to install flow monitors inline with the emergency drains so I can monitor the flow and be notified if the flow is greater than normal? This would indicate that something is cutting off the flow from the main siphon since the emergency is working harder. Would this add redundancy or reduce redundancy since it adds a point of failure (blockage) and theoretically will reduce the total flow the emergency drain can handle? I don't quiet know if the pros outweigh the cons. Or would it be better for me to install the flow sensors on the main syphons and monitor the flow that way?

Initially I thought it was a pretty good idea since I have two overflow boxes and the Herbies would work independently of one another so the likely hood of both of them failing at the same time is low, therefore installing flow sensors on the emergency drains would be a good idea. But I want to hear from you guys! What do all you guys and gals think?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Idoc]

can your flow sensor handle small fluctuations in flow without going crazy alerting you to a disaster? Ideally, the herbie design will have a trickle of water going thru the emergency line. Mine changes occasionally and i go from nothing to a little more than a trickle. I can't respond to the use of sensors since i don't have flow sensors hooked up on my system.

But, you should be pretty safe... your going to have 2 emergency overflows running! I only have one and i tested my system by closing off the full siphon line completely and turned up my Varios6 return pump full blast and only one 1" return line handled the flow to the sump without overflowing the DT.

 

[joekool]

I'm all for sensors on almost everything as I'm a control freak. However I wouldn't put them on a emergency drain. Its a clog point, it should be smooth sailing all the way to your sump. This is your only safety from a tanktastrify or overflow.
Now if you wanted to meter your drain line that has the valve install after the valve go for it. You could program it to alert and let you know if there is a big enough change in your drain and would tell you if it gets clogged.

 

[ca1ore]

I have put flow sensors on the dual siphons on my tank and on the main pump return. I'd thought that it would be cool to have apex alert me if the sum of the two drains was less than the return - but I have not figured out yet how to program it. Open to ideas!

I did not put a flow sensor on the emergency, but am planning to use one of the new optical switches on my upcoming build to alert me if the water level in my external overflow box rises to the point of 'engaging' the emergency.

 

[joekool]

If Flow sensor name < _____ then on
Make less than half of return flow
It will automatically send another alert when back to normal parameters or above your less than statement no need to make a then off statement.
Remember not to make it so small fluctuations make it so you get a bunch of alarms.
You can do the same for text alerts if you prefer them instead of emails or both if you like.
Here is what my email alarm page in fusion looks like.

So both drain sensors should be equal to a little less than the return flow. So you will know which drain or both are having issues. If you show me your sensor profile program page I can help further.

 

[joekool]

I have put flow sensors on the dual siphons on my tank and on the main pump return. I'd thought that it would be cool to have apex alert me if the sum of the two drains was less than the return - but I have not figured out yet how to program it. Open to ideas!

I did not put a flow sensor on the emergency, but am planning to use one of the new optical switches on my upcoming build to alert me if the water level in my external overflow box rises to the point of 'engaging' the emergency.

Also you can set the optical if you want but if your emergency handles everything you can push at it with both drains off and return at max output you’ll be good plus with the two flow sensors on the drains you won’t need it you can set the return to turn off if drains drastically reduce in flow and alert you. Not sure if you need that much redundancy but if you want go for it.

Hope any of this helps feel free to ask any questions.

 

[kinetic]

another possible option is to use optical water sensors (Neptune OS-1 I believe) to detect water level fluctuations. If your return chamber runs super low all of a sudden, then there might be a problem / clog. You can also detect when your overflow level is way higher than it should be. So two OS-1 sensors on a FMM would be good, no flow valves to maintain and create even more clog possibilities.

If you defer the alarm for when the sensors trigger, you can also reduce the small variations that you might have.

You could even turn off the return pump when these sensors trigger something off. Then physically goto the tank and turn the return back on to see what's up.

 

[BrandonP]

I have put flow sensors on the dual siphons on my tank and on the main pump return. I'd thought that it would be cool to have apex alert me if the sum of the two drains was less than the return - but I have not figured out yet how to program it. Open to ideas!

I did not put a flow sensor on the emergency, but am planning to use one of the new optical switches on my upcoming build to alert me if the water level in my external overflow box rises to the point of 'engaging' the emergency.

Never thought putting an optical valve in he overflow box. That’s a great idea!

 

[BrandonP]

another possible option is to use optical water sensors (Neptune OS-1 I believe) to detect water level fluctuations. If your return chamber runs super low all of a sudden, then there might be a problem / clog. You can also detect when your overflow level is way higher than it should be. So two OS-1 sensors on a FMM would be good, no flow valves to maintain and create even more clog possibilities.

If you defer the alarm for when the sensors trigger, you can also reduce the small variations that you might have.

You could even turn off the return pump when these sensors trigger something off. Then physically goto the tank and turn the return back on to see what's up.

Also a great idea!

 

[BrandonP]

I’m thinking optical sensors might be they way to go! Of course I might throw one on my return.

 

[joekool]

Dontthinkyounedthem because you have flow sensors already installed. But if you want to buy all that it would add redundancy but that really seems like over kill and you already have the other flow sensors installed so I would just do the programming. You an use the optical for a bunch of other ideas f 6ou already have them.

 

[ca1ore]

Also you can set the optical if you want but if your emergency handles everything you can push at it with both drains off and return at max output you’ll be good plus with the two flow sensors on the drains you won’t need it you can set the return to turn off if drains drastically reduce in flow and alert you. Not sure if you need that much redundancy but if you want go for it.

Redundancy is a reefers best friend! I will tell you that I have had two of my flow sensors lock up on me (a thorough disassembly and cleaning restored them) so be careful what you use the outputs to trigger. I just trigger alerts, not any other kind of control action. I also intend them for different tasks. I will be running a three siphon BA drain on my impending build, so I can monitor the relative flow through two of the siphons, and calculate the third. The optical sensor is mounted high in the external box as my sensor-of-last resort.