Holistic Reefing without Fish

[Jamie9]

Jamie,

“Could you describe briefly how you incorporate macro algae into your reef tank? Do you include it in the display or in a sump/redugium“

KEEP THE TANGS OUT OF THE SEAWEED TANKS.
When I decided I wanted ornamental seaweeds in my mixed garden five year mature 120G, I removed all three tangs. I have small display tanks with a peppermint shrimp as the apex predator. In my 120G now, I have a school of Blue Yellow Tail damsels and a Copper Banded Butterfly fish.

Sponge Habitat

I dusted off 2003 Reef Invertebrates book by Anthony Calfo & Robert Fenner to write this thread. I had just returned from a Marsh Conference in Pittsburg where I meant, Anthony Calfo, Danna Riddle and Eric Borneman, who I flew back to Houston with. Fast forward to April 2023, Angel Cegarra...

www.reef2reef.com

With respect to lighting, I like 6K for seaweed tanks and I like 10K for mixed reef with anything inbetween. Corals and seaweed will adjust to what they get. Run lights to your viewing pleasure.

PS: @vlangel
What tang do you keep in your mixed garden? Any pictures.

Thanks! I also appreciate your book recommendations in some of your threads, I've got copies of "Natural Reef Aquariums" and "Reef Invertebrates" on order. When I started out I asked for some good books to get ahold of, but most people recommend watching YouTube and BRS videos. Those have been useful too...but the 5 minute sound bites always leave me with more questions than answers (and a weird desire to buy a product I probably don't need)!

 

[Subsea]

“In this environment there is a gigantic network of nutrient transfer and recycling, which has been consolidated over millions of years and functions with an efficiency superior to the most elaborate human engineering. All functions are performed by different species and none is indispensable; the absence of some provides opportunities for others. The waste products of some are food for others and nothing is wasted. It is a dynamic system with numerous elements of redundancy, which has allowed reefs to survive the five mass extinctions that have occurred on Earth. This complex network underpins the robustness and stability of coral reefs.”

In his first sentence, Angel Ceggara got my attention with his book, ReefKeeping Fundamentals published April 2021

“Functions with an efficiency superior to the most elaborate human engineering.” And the paragraph ends with

“This complex network underpins the robustness and stability of coral reefs.”

As a controls system engineer for 30 in the field, I was impressed because I had fought against over engineering systems as I saw more failure points in the harsh reality of deep water temperatures at 30 degrees F and 1500psi of sea pressure.

And this microbiologist was talking about auto feedback loops with bacteria crosstalk within coral biomass and as a reefer for 50 years, I saw the analogy. Similarly to Archimedes running naked thru the streets of Greece saying, “Eureka, I have found it!”
Or an LSD flashback.

 

[Subsea]

Considering that nutrient recycling is a mainstay of my methods, I started a thread to that point:

Nutrient Management by “Old School” Reefer

In September of 1971, I entered the Texas Maritime Academy on Pelican Island next to the Galveston ship channel. It was educational/amusing to see the 18 year olds in the Cadet Core marching around campus. I had just discharged from 4 years active duty with four 90 day tours of duty in Cambodia...

www.reef2reef.com

In September of 1971, I entered the Texas Maritime Academy on Pelican Island next to the Galveston ship channel. It was educational/amusing to see the 18 year olds in the Cadet Core marching around campus. I had just discharged from 4 years active duty with four 90 day tours of duty in Cambodia. We did’t spit shine our boots in the jungles.

As a marine engineer student, the first technical elective I took that first semester was Chemical Oceanography 101 in which I was introduced to the concept of Dynamic Equilibrium where carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and calcium carbonate in limestone sediments acted to maintain alkalinity in our oceans. So with this limited knowledge, I decided to set up a 55G glass tank as a Galveston Bay theme. I used standard undergravel filter with crushed up oyster shells purchased from chicken feed store. I found a large oyster cluster in Galveston Bay with fan & tube worms for live rock center piece in tank. From the grass flats & marsh reeds, grass shrimp and green mollies were collected . Anemones from the jetties in Galveston completed stocking this 55G tank. All movement for filtration was provided by one air pump on uplift tubes. I dragged that tank around for 10 yrs. The last time I moved that tank in 1980, I showed off the tanks fish and commented about the beautiful dark burgundy carpet over the ugly crushed up oyster shell. A visitor looking at my tank asked me why I had the cynobacteria mat so thick everywhere. We have come a long way from that day.

As my fascination with the marine aquarium hobby continued and my career took me offshore into “Blue Water” as a subsea engineer whose department was underwater blowout preventers. Depending on locations in the world, work schedule was 14/14 or 28/28 on/off. So with a 150G reef tank in my new home, I plumbed a remote sump that grew into 1000G of algae refugiums and two propagation/growout troughs that were 4’ by 8’ by 12” high. With zero nutrient export, I feed heavy when home on days off but no food was added to tank when I was away. Even though I didn’t know all the details, I did know by cause & effect that my algae filter refugium was a two way street with recycling nutrients. This is the focus of the thread: Recycling Nutrients

I briefly described how CO2 as a gas can seek equilibrium with water to combine with alkalinity & photosynthesis to produce glucose which is carbon. So, let’s follow nitrogen as a gas, as it seeks solubility equilibrium to dissolve in water. Add bacteria, like Cynobacteria, to convert free nitrogen gas into available nitrogen in a process called “nitrogen fixation”.

[Nitrogen (N2) fixation is the microbially mediated conversion of relatively inert dinitrogen gas to biologically available ammonia. ... In the marine environment, N2 fixation occurs in numerous ecologically diverse nearshore, coastal and open-ocean environments.]

www.sciencedirect.com
Nitrogen fixation in the marine environment: relating genetic potential to nitrogenase activity
Nitrogen fixation can be an important source of nitrogen for biological productivity in the marine environment. Biological nitrogen fixation is cataly…
www.sciencedirect.com www.sciencedirect.com

Abstract
[Nitrogen fixation can be an important source of nitrogen for biological productivity in the marine environment. Biological nitrogen fixation is catalyzed by the enzyme nitrogenase, which is possessed by diverse microorganisms representing virtually all phylogenetic groups. Interest in nitrogen fixation in the sea has usually been focused on rates of nitrogen fixation, but information on the types of species present with the capability for nitrogen fixation can be important for predicting nitrogen fixation rates in situ. Molecular tools for detection and characterization of the nitrogenase (nif) genes and immunoassays for nitrogenase protein can provide new information on the factors regulating the distribution and activity of diverse nitrogen fixing organisms in the marine environment. Amplification and characterization of nifH sequences has made it possible to identify the type(s) of organism responsible for nitrogen fixation, such as in aggregates of the cyanobacterium Trichodesmium. Differences in nitrogen fixation patterns have been linked to genetic differences between Trichodesmium strains. Further development of these approaches will provide new and powerful ways to link the genetic potential for nitrogen fixation to nitrogen fixation rates in the ocean.]


Here we are in Dec 2025. I am not sure my methods have changed much since 1971. I just know more about why the method works.

 

[Subsea]

Ode to The Sponge

Of all reef invertebrate, the sponge was least understood by me. In Anthony Calfo / Charles Delbric book “Reef Invertebrae” a whole chapter of 50 pages is focused on > 7000 species that have been identified with diverse feeding habits. All of the sponges in my reef tanks come from Gulf Coast...

www.reef2reef.com

Sponges have become the third leg of biochemistry in my ecosystems:
Bacteria, Algae & Sponges

 

[atoll]

Ode to The Sponge

Of all reef invertebrate, the sponge was least understood by me. In Anthony Calfo / Charles Delbric book “Reef Invertebrae” a whole chapter of 50 pages is focused on > 7000 species that have been identified with diverse feeding habits. All of the sponges in my reef tanks come from Gulf Coast...

www.reef2reef.com

Sponges have become the third leg of biochemistry in my ecosystems:
Bacteria, Algae & Sponges

I have what looks like 2 different species of sponges. Ones about 1/4" diameter and these ones about 3/4" to 1" in my DT

 

[Subsea]

I have what looks like 2 different species of sponges. Ones about 1/4" diameter and these ones about 3/4" to 1" in my DT

Can you get some white light on them?

Instead of somewhat flattened & encrusting, they look spherical.

 

[atoll]

Can you get some white light on them?

Instead of somewhat flattened & encrusting, they look spherical.

They are small white balls with the odd small hole which I guess is to pass water into them...maybe.
This is the best I could get with a flashlight and my phone.

 

[Subsea]

They are small white balls with the odd small hole which I guess is to pass water into them...maybe.
This is the best I could get with a flashlight and my phone.

Yes, the small hole is the vent I think. On Yellow Ball sponges there are numerous holes. I think the water filters in thru the complete outer sphere.

On this rescue, you can see one functioning vent. I often use a soft toothbrush to clean the stuff off. In this case, I introduced large amohipods & tiny Blue Legged hermits. Let’s see how the janitors in the CUC do.

 

[Subsea]

They are small white balls with the odd small hole which I guess is to pass water into them...maybe.
This is the best I could get with a flashlight and my phone.

Considering the white color, I would assume they are grouped in cryptic sponge category.

I have some odd shaped white ones that came in from 150 Rubbermaid rock tub.

 

[atoll]

Yes, the small hole is the vent I think. On Yellow Ball sponges there are numerous holes. I think the water filters in thru the complete outer sphere.

Yes, I kind of guessed that would be the case. Let's see if my little sponges grow or if they stay small.

 

[areefer01]

“My first source of diver collected live rock was The Package from Tampa Bay Saltwater. It’s a bullet proof way to go“

Mine was rock from Fiji through Harbor Aquatics. 2 day freight to door wrapped in wet newspaper. I actually dried it out to read later.

TBS will be next with the upgrade for no other reason that their longevity in the hobby (founder Richard) and the new owners being super cool. I exchange emails from time to time similar to Richard talking about various things and their current diving conditions. Great people.

IPSF - hidden gem of our hobby. Gerald Heslinga has a wealth of knowledge.

 

[KrisReef]

“My first source of diver collected live rock was The Package from Tampa Bay Saltwater. It’s a bullet proof way to go“

The backstory on the purchase was more than 30 years ago. I had just been promoted to Senior Subsea Engineer and had received a $10K retention bonus so I felt special and decided to reward myself. Because, I was on a Transocean semisubmersible drilling rig 100 miles south of Boloxi, Mississippi when I received the bonus, I called TBS using our marisat phone at $10/min on the company dime. So, when I talked to the owner of TBS, he answered on his marisat phone, while he was fishing a July 4 tournament sponsored by Boloxi casino. We laughed about that as the fishing boat he was on was within view. Also in view was a boatload of models who were part of a magazine add on big game fishing. Every time the boat of scantly clad ladies came near the rig, the boys on deck would crowd the side of the rig to make cat calls to the girls. Go figure.

Dang. My mom was on that boat.

 

[Subsea]

Dang. My mom was on that boat.

I guess that makes you a good looking man?

 

[Subsea]

My interpretation of zooplankton transfer is to move ornamental seaweed from 150G Rubbermaid Rock tank that is full of pods and to put in.
Another option is to grab a rock and look on the underside for micro starfish:

 

[Subsea]

Could you describe briefly how you incorporate macro algae into your reef tank? Do you include it in the display or in a sump/redugium. I love the idea of mixing some into my display, but I can see a couple issues.

1) I have some nice red grape macro that came in with my live rock, but as soon as a piece broke off it got sucked into my mp10. Scared the heck out of me when I got home from work and heard the noise the wet-side was making…happily it was fine when I pulled the macro out of it. But, if we have things like lagoon flow and minimizing dead spots in our mixed reef…how do we get the macro established and not clogging our pumps? (Most videos I see of people adding macro to a tank they just sort of place it where they want it in a macro dedicated tank…but with flow I don’t see that working too well.)

2) Lighting…I assume the lighting that many macro algae like won’t be the same as what coral like. Are there certain types you’ve found to work better than others?

I appreciate all the thoughts you’ve been sharing, I love reading about what people are doing in their tanks to try to follow what nature has been doing all along.

High Nitrogen and Phosphorous Acquisition by Belowground Parts of Caulerpa prolifera (Chlorophyta) Contribute to the Species' Rapid Spread in Ria Formosa Lagoon, Southern Portugal - PubMed

Despite worldwide proliferation of the genus Caulerpa and subsequent effects on benthic communities, little is known about the nutritional physiology of the Caulerpales. Here, we investigated the uptake rates of ammonium, nitrate, amino acids, and phosphate through the fronds and rhizoids +...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Jamie,
I recently was made aware of some important distinctions of how Caulerpa Prolifera handles its nitrogen & phosphorus uptake:
Both holdfast in substrate & fronds in water, sequester inorganic nitrogen & phosphorus. The holdfast sequester both inorganic & organic phosphorus. Considering limewater use for alkalinity buffering has made calcium phosphate abundant in many reefers substrate.

Linked to the above study was a small takeaway about Caulerpa Prolifera: its fast growth tendencies are offset with a low light environment in which it slows down preventing it from going sexual in low nutrient environments.

Happy trails.

 

[Jamie9]

High Nitrogen and Phosphorous Acquisition by Belowground Parts of Caulerpa prolifera (Chlorophyta) Contribute to the Species' Rapid Spread in Ria Formosa Lagoon, Southern Portugal - PubMed

Despite worldwide proliferation of the genus Caulerpa and subsequent effects on benthic communities, little is known about the nutritional physiology of the Caulerpales. Here, we investigated the uptake rates of ammonium, nitrate, amino acids, and phosphate through the fronds and rhizoids +...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Jamie,
I recently was made aware of some important distinctions of how Caulerpa Prolifera handles its nitrogen & phosphorus uptake:
Both holdfast in substrate & fronds in water, sequester inorganic nitrogen & phosphorus. The holdfast sequester both inorganic & organic phosphorus. Considering limewater use for alkalinity buffering has made calcium phosphate abundant in many reefers substrate.

Linked to the above study was a small takeaway about Caulerpa Prolifera: its fast growth tendencies are offset with a low light environment in which it slows down preventing it from going sexual in low nutrient environments.

Happy trails.

Thanks for that. An interesting read...and I actually was at that lagoon a couple years ago. I think I should have made different career choices, as my job never seems to involve being in a bathing suit in the Algarve!

I've been enjoying your reading recommendations. I've actually started a list, as well as other fun references I've stumbled across. In another week or two I'll make a thread to keep everything organized and create a sort of recommended reading list. Most of the great references I've found scattered around R2R are available second-hand for about $2-$3.

 

[Subsea]

Thanks for that. An interesting read...and I actually was at that lagoon a couple years ago. I think I should have made different career choices, as my job never seems to involve being in a bathing suit in the Algarve!

I've been enjoying your reading recommendations. I've actually started a list, as well as other fun references I've stumbled across. In another week or two I'll make a thread to keep everything organized and create a sort of recommended reading list. Most of the great references I've found scattered around R2R are available second-hand for about $2-$3.

@atoll
This guy likes good reference books and he is more frugal than you. He is a fast tracker for Holistic Reefer forum.

Jamie,
I have enjoyed reading your post on different threads. I do enjoy your enthusiasm and seeing things from other perspectives.
Keep on trucking.
Patrick

 

[Subsea]

Mine was rock from Fiji through Harbor Aquatics. 2 day freight to door wrapped in wet newspaper. I actually dried it out to read later.

TBS will be next with the upgrade for no other reason that their longevity in the hobby (founder Richard) and the new owners being super cool. I exchange emails from time to time similar to Richard talking about various things and their current diving conditions. Great people.

IPSF - hidden gem of our hobby. Gerald Heslinga has a wealth of knowledge.

When I read , “ I actually dried the paper and read the news from the Philippians”, I laughed and agreed completely with shipping damp and wrapped in paper. I like shipped damp, in the event that something dies, it is contained in a small area as opposed to contaminating shipping water with everything in the water. From a risk assessment point of view, it’s a no brainer; ship damp. For added protection, I limit shipping delays to 24 hour max by using bulk freight, picked up at airport.
In a special case, the rock was collected by divers in the morning and put in holding tanks on midnight the same day: less than 16 hours from a maricultured reef off the coast of Florida in 30’ of water.