How to increase Nitrate and Phosphate?

[Thomas Jedlicka]

Hello all,

I have an lps/softie tank that is relatively young only a couple months old. I am new to reefing this is my first real reef tank My coral seem happy and are extending for the most part. (I have one favia that i cant tell is happy or not) but my acans, caulastrea, and duncan are doing fine since being added a couple weeks back. I have a medium sized leather that just did a large mucus shed which got all the corals annoyed for a bit and will be doing a water change this weekend. I spot feed once a week (mysis for the caulastrea, nyos lps pellets for my acans, reefblizzard pellets for my duncan, with reef roids as well for all). I feed spirulina mysis for the rest of the tank. I have a barnacle blenny, clownfish, and 2 yellow banded possum wrasses. I have a par meter and the corals are in the right par range for their respected species. Flow is something I am still playing around with.

What can i do to increase nitrate? Is adding fish the simplest answer? What about phosphate? Any other recommendations ? What can i do better?

I use API for ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate
Hanna for Alk
Salifert for calc, mag, phosphate

I have hanna ph, calc, nitrite, phosphate and phosphorus on the way with magnesium soon to come.

Parameters:
Salinity: 1.026
PH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 0.0
Alk: 8.0
Calc: 450
Magnesium: 1350
Phosphate: 0.0

 

[Tangdora]

There are sever usefully articles in the stickies around creating diy dosing solution using food grade mixes.

DIY Chemistry Archive

I thought it would be useful to have an archive of DIY chemistry methods. I'll add to it as things come up. Calcium and Alkalinity DIY method comparison https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/randy-recommended-diy-two-part-recipes.984604/ Three Part using Sodium Hydroxide (including Balling Part...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Bruttall]

The simplest and easiest method to increase po4 and nitrate is to feed more. Flake or pellet are usually really good for adding those nutrients. Monitor by testing as you increase food amount, you'll find your happy place.

 

[Uncle99]

Fastest way to increase nutrients is through dosing.

I use both Brightwell Neo-Nitro and Neo-Phos to put mine in the range, from time to time,

Feeding more works but takes considerable time to breakdown, so for me, feeding is a long term solution.

 

[CHSUB]

What can i do to increase nitrate

The best thing is nothing. Aquariums naturally and eventually accumulate filthy our job is to prevent this, not increase it so our low resolution hobby test kits show some readable level. You noted corals look good, so continue feeding fish and whatever else you are doing. I have never and well never add no3 to my aquarium. I could but it would doing nothing except make my test kit show slightly pink vs clear….

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

How did you measure zero phosphate if you don't have the test yet? I would not make any changes to water chemistry based on API tests. Wait till you upgrade the testers.

 

[Thomas Jedlicka]

How did you measure zero phosphate if you don't have the test yet? I would not make any changes to water chemistry based on API tests. Wait till you upgrade the testers.

I have a salifert phosphate. I just prefer hanna as it is less guess and check with titration

 

[Asm481]

Throw away your API test kits once you are done worrying about ammonia. You also shouldn't need to measure nitrite in saltwater. Not positive but phosphorus and phosphate are same with a different type of scale. I've only ever done phosphate, nitrate, alkalinity, Hanna testers and Salifert for calcium and magnesium once in a blue moon.

 

[tritonpower]

I agree with feeding more. 1st be sure the levels are accurate. I use hanna for phosphate and salifert for nitrate. If levels are still low after feeding more (good excuse to get more fish!), I have used Brightwell Neo-phos in the past when phos was low. Mine is high currently but my nitrate is low so I dose Neo-Nitro 3 times a week that keeps my nitrate 2.5-5.0 perfectly.

 

[mcarroll]

I have an lps/softie tank that is relatively young only a couple months old.

Parameters:
Salinity: 1.026
PH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 0.0
Alk: 8.0
Calc: 450
Magnesium: 1350
Phosphate: 0.0

Do you have a build thread for this tank?

Otherwise, can you give some outline of how was the tank started and how has it been filtered/cleaned so far?

Is there any algae growth yet?

A pic of the tank would help.

 

[Thomas Jedlicka]

Do you have a build thread for this tank?

Otherwise, can you give some outline of how was the tank started and how has it been filtered/cleaned so far?

Is there any algae growth yet?

A pic of the tank would help.

No build thread per se but I cycled the tank from dry rock and carib sea live sand. Dosed fritz turbostart 900 4 ounces on the addition of my clownfish from my other tank. Full cycle took four weeks and then i added a varied cuc (margarites, nerites, tiger conch, nassarius, cleaner shrimp).

40 lbs rock, 40 lbs sand, lots of marine pure blocks.

Two weeks later I added a leather which took a week to shed its mucus and has been happy since. I added an african biscuit star with it then. Tank was reading nitrates of around 5 at this point in time.

A week later i got a shipment from dr reefs where I got a favia, two acans, and a duncan. As well as two yellow banded possum wrasse. (Shipped two in case of doa both lived, they get along fine).

Week later Picked up a bicolor candy cane coral colony. Added pods here as well.

And most recently I got an order from SBB that consisted of two hammers, a torch, two gonis, and two acans.

Placed all my corals in respective par ranges using my par meter, got a cheap one off of amazon works decently well to atleast give me a rough idea of light intensity.

5 gallon water change every two weeks. I use fritze red box salt. Temperature and salinity matched. Mixed 24 hours prior to change. Using rodi water.

I have a skimmer have not broken it in or running it yet, will do when nitrates pick up.

I use an ink bird controller with a titanium heating element. Vectra S2 running at 24watts, ~400-500 gph is my guess. Tunze osmolater top off with 5gal reservoir.

I have a 95 watt china led lights that i am planning to upgrade in the new year.

Algae had picked up in my sand bed and on my rocks but i turn over my sand a few times a week and my cuc does a decent job in the rocks. Hasnt been too mych of a nuisance lately.

 

[BryanM]

I never had luck raising nutrients with feeding unfortunately. probably need more fish :)

 

[mcarroll]

40 lbs rock, 40 lbs sand, lots of marine pure blocks.

I suggest removing the extra bio media. Use that if you have a system with high nutrient problems.

Tank was reading nitrates of around 5 at this point in time.

How about phosphate? Much more important.

Placed all my corals in respective par ranges using my par meter, got a cheap one off of amazon works decently well to atleast give me a rough idea of light intensity.

Good move. A lux meter can be used in much the same way. Exact readings are not required.

5 gallon water change every two weeks. I use fritze red box salt. Temperature and salinity matched. Mixed 24 hours prior to change. Using rodi water.

Stop doing water changes until nutrient levels are "too high". Each one lowers your nutrients. If you feel like you must do a water change for some reason, use liquid NO3 and PO4 to supplement the new waterchange water.

Good target levels (for your tank and the water changes) are: ≥0.10 ppm PO4 and ≥5 ppm NO3. Higher numbers are fine too. Just not lower.

I have a skimmer have not broken it in or running it yet, will do when nitrates pick up.

Fire it up – it's mostly for aeration.

~400-500 gph is my guess.

Measure, son't guess. :) Use somethng like a 1-quart measuring cup and time how long it takes to fill up. Do some math to convert quarts/time to gallons/hour.

Algae had picked up in my sand bed and on my rocks but i turn over my sand a few times a week and my cuc does a decent job in the rocks. Hasnt been too mych of a nuisance lately.

In your pics the tank looks like it wants to have a dino bloom. You really see green algae in some places???

IMO you have a semi-urgent case of low nutrients...holler back if you have any questions!

 

[Thomas Jedlicka]

I suggest removing the extra bio media. Use that if you have a system with high nutrient problems.


How about phosphate? Much more important.


Good move. A lux meter can be used in much the same way. Exact readings are not required.


Stop doing water changes until nutrient levels are "too high". Each one lowers your nutrients. If you feel like you must do a water change for some reason, use liquid NO3 and PO4 to supplement the new waterchange water.

Good target levels (for your tank and the water changes) are: ≥0.10 ppm PO4 and ≥5 ppm NO3. Higher numbers are fine too. Just not lower.


Fire it up – it's mostly for aeration.


Measure, son't guess. :) Use somethng like a 1-quart measuring cup and time how long it takes to fill up. Do some math to convert quarts/time to gallons/hour.


In your pics the tank looks like it wants to have a dino bloom. You really see green algae in some places???

IMO you have a semi-urgent case of low nutrients...holler back if you have any questions!

Just ran tests everything is holding but phosphate spiked from 0 to now about 2. (Invetween saliferts 1 and 3 coloration) Assuming its from the shipment I added yesterday. Was reading at 0 on monday. Still waiting on my hanna reagents for my checkers. Ive been over feeding like crazy nothing will bring up nitrate will probably try and add some larger fish. I have a larger system they can go to when the out grow the tank.

Im waiting for the dinos to hit. I think i turn over my sand and rub off my rock too often to have let the dinos take hold yet. I Didnt get all the hair algae off of a couple frags I added yesterday but am not all that worried about it. Need more algae before justifying an emerald crab to handle a couple bubble algae blobs i missed when dipping and inspecting a few weeks back.

Assuming phosphate will taper off in the next couple days but will test daily to be sure

PH-8.6 (using different test kit so not all that concerned by this move, will monitor)
Nitrate-0
Alk-8.7
Mag-1350
Calc-450
Phosphate-2.0 (guestimate between 1 and 3 on salifert. Closer to 1 than 3)
Temp-75.8
Salinity-1.026

None of the corals, fish, or inverts have shown signs of distress. Everything is opening and happy as far as i can tell. Still waiting on a goni i added yesterday to pop open but color/health seems fine for now. Maybe worth dosing some nitrate but will wait for the moment.

Curious to see if the phosphate spike is enough to bloom dinos

Edit: ordered brightwell neo nitro to arrive tomorrow if i need to dose

 

[dvgyfresh]

You absolutely do not want a Dino’s bloom… lol
mcarroll has the best advice for your situation imo

 

[Thomas Jedlicka]

You absolutely do not want a Dino’s bloom… lol
mcarroll has the best advice for your situation imo

Have something to dose nitrate and slowly reduce phosphate coming to arrive tomorrow. Turned on skimmer. Will stay active on the thread to update as it goes. Thanks for the advice everybody.

Not going to pull marine pure yet. Dont want to change too much all at once

 

[mcarroll]

Have something to dose nitrate and slowly reduce phosphate coming to arrive tomorrow. Turned on skimmer. Will stay active on the thread to update as it goes. Thanks for the advice everybody.

Not going to pull marine pure yet. Dont want to change too much all at once

The only thing that pullin gthe Marine Pure will do is free up N in your system from being ocxidized so quickly by organisms that really have nu business with your reef. Your reef actually needs that ammonia....and you're preparing to dose it. :) Go ahead and pull that media....at least get started pulling it out by half or thirds or something. It only makes sense.

You do *not* want to reduce phosphates, even though your test number might seem high. You also want to double check your number....Salifert (and other similar PO4 kits) are notoriously hard to read. Is that light blue, lighter blue or even-lighter blue? Hmm...

What I recommend for the re-test is to have a second vial (identical if possible) filled with the same quantity of tank water. Run the test in the first vial and use the clear sample as a "zero" comparison.....the card alone is not really enough IMO....the clear sample helps accuracy a lot.

As I said, I still wouldn't reduce phosphates...just start freeing up N in your system and the P will be used up in due time. (Pretty sure I'd pull 100% of the that bio-media right now if I were in your shoes.)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is the phosphate really 2 ppm or 0.2 ppm?

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

It’s funny that this thread came up, because the reef tank I have in my classroom had the PO4 and NO3 bottom out. I run only algae and mangroves for filtration…no skimmer, media, water changes, etc.

There is pretty robust growth of the mangroves and algae. The refugium is its own display with pipefish, mandarins, feather dusters, clams, etc, so I don’t want it being choked with algae. Harvesting it and removing it from the tank will only exacerbate the low nutrient levels, so I decided to make a mesh container that I could compost the harvested algae in and return the nutrients to the system. I’ll just add it to a dark area of the sump.

I’ll let you all know how if it works.

 

[CHSUB]

It’s funny that this thread came up, because the reef tank I have in my classroom had the PO4 and NO3 bottom out. I run only algae and mangroves for filtration…no skimmer, media, water changes, etc.

There is pretty robust growth of the mangroves and algae. The refugium is its own display with pipefish, mandarins, feather dusters, clams, etc, so I don’t want it being choked with algae. Harvesting it and removing it from the tank will only exacerbate the low nutrient levels, so I decided to make a mesh container that I could compost the harvested algae in and return the nutrients to the system. I’ll just add it to a dark area of the sump.

I’ll let you all know how if it works.

I believe these levels are perfect. More evidence that hobby testing is only valid for high levels. If mangroves are growing and they only use inorganic nutrients “zeros” are ideal for reef tanks since coral also capture food. I often have the same numbers but also use a skimmer but that’s just me.