How to Quarantine

  1. VJV

    VJV Well-Known Member

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    I have coppersafe but never used it. What dosage do you use and for how long? Also, have you used it with Regal Angels before with success?

    Thanks
     
  2. VJV

    VJV Well-Known Member

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    Also, as far as I am aware hypo is not effective on Velvet.
     
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  3. VJV

    VJV Well-Known Member

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    Also, if you use an air diffuser you should also bleach it right?
     
  4. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member Article Contributor

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    One of these days I need to take the time and accurately dose and record my observations for Coppersafe. The directions on the bottle get you a very low level of copper designed for continuous use in a system. I measured it around 0.3ppm. The target needs to be 1.5ppm to 2ppm since Coppersafe is a more gentle form of copper.

    Sorry, I've only used it on dwarf angels. Someone else would have to speak of their experience with Regal Angels.
     
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  5. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member Article Contributor

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    You can, but I believe most people would recommend throwing it away.

    When I did TTM I used 2 10g tanks with HOB filters and just tossed the filter sponge between transfers. I seeded them with Biospira but you could also keep a supply of sponges in your DT sump if you are confident it is disease free.
     
  6. VJV

    VJV Well-Known Member

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    I believe for TTM biological Filter is not required given ammonia should not rise during those 3 days. The air diffuser is just a bubbler to oxygenate the water and get some motion. A bit expensive to throw 5 diffusers away
     
  7. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member Article Contributor

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    It's possible, but not a chance I was willing to take. Of course, that may also be why I was unwilling to do it again, too much work!

    You can get diffusers for $0.50 each for an application like this.
    https://www.amazon.com/1-inch-Miner...1481813203&sr=8-8&keywords=aquarium+air+stone
     
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  8. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

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    I've used both Coppersafe & Cupramine on both dwarf & regular angels with success. :)

    The key is to take 4-5 days (or longer) to slowly ramp up the Cu level. If the fish stops eating, immediately do a WC to lower the Cu level. If this happens a second time know you've encountered a copper intolerant fish and will need to use an alternative treatment.

    Fish are like people, particular individuals cannot tolerate certain medications... even though the majority can. ;)
     
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  9. VJV

    VJV Well-Known Member

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    @Humblefish: how long would you say it would be required to observe a fish in Quarantine without adding medications, to make sure (as close to being sure as possible) that he does not carry Ich or Velvet?

    Where I am going with this is that I have this gorgeous adult Regal in QT for 3 weeks now and have done 2 doses of Prazi. The fish is eating pellets, flakes and frozen. I have had angels in the past that for 2 years they ate pellets and frozen in my tank. Due to a ich outbreak I took them out (all fish) and put them through 4 weeks of copper. During that period the flame angel gradually lost appetite and stopped eating pellets and frozen. After that he never agin touched on those foods and only grazed in the rocks all day long and eventually made it to corals.

    So long story short: if I keep this in the QT for another 60 days without medication, would that not be enough to be reasonably sure that he is not carrying ich or velvet?

    I know one can never be 100% sure, but that is also true of any other method. And no, I do not want to do TTM
     
  10. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

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    If you were able to sit and watch him for 30 minutes a day (minimum) and look for symptoms of ick like scraching, flashing, heavy breathing ect. then you could be ok. But ou have to be able to watch him every day.
     
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  11. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

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    +1 Although ich is hard to detect due to it's ability to harbor inside a fish's gills, out of sight. You have to watch closely every single day for key behavioral symptoms, as Meredith said. Head twitching is another one to watch out for; anything which indicates the fish is being bothered by something in the gills.
     
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  12. VJV

    VJV Well-Known Member

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    Well, this is what I am not 100% in agreement. From my (admittedly limited) experience if a fish does indeed at some point develops symptoms these do not go away. The reason is quite simple: if it is velvet he will probably get much word rather quickly and if it is ich in a closed small system such as a QT that is not medicated, the symptoms may for a couple of days improve but inevitably they will get worse, as each of the cysts releases 200 new hungry tomites that have only one fish to attach to.
     
  13. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

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    It's your choice sweet heart, but we have seen many people who observed in QT instead of treating and they still ended up with ick in their tank. It's a risk, but you know what the risk is and what the recommendation is, so at least you are making an informed choice. :)
     
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  14. jenreefer

    jenreefer Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    @Humblefish , @melypr1985 The three wrasse that I put in the second QT I have been slowly adding copper. It has been three days. They are not eating well at all and I am only at half strength. I read that they do not do well with CP either, so not sure what to do. The first QT has the Naoko in CP and he has done great and is eating like a Champ. What are your suggestions for treatment for them. Had Velvet outbreak in DT. Thanks
     
  15. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

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    As long as they are eating at all, they will be ok. If they stop eating completely then we want to remove the copper and either do CP or get them eating again and try with the copper again. What kind of copper are you using? What kind of wrasses are they?
     
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  16. jenreefer

    jenreefer Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    coppersafe Bluestar, leopard and yellow coris.
     
  17. VJV

    VJV Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. The way I see it given the lifecycle of these parasites the only way they can be in the QT unnoticed for 60 days is the fish has some form of "immunity", which is something that has not been proven exists.

    Those cases can also be traced to something else like introducing corals, CUC, anemones, or something else. It could have been in the system already brought in by some non quarantined invert, and when you put the new fish in, weakened from the QT and stressed by the new environment and tank mates, he is the first showing symptoms and you automatically think he was the one bringing it in.

    I may still try the short version of copper (ramp up to full those over 5 days and keep it there for another 10 days, followed by a transfer to a new tank). However, I now have a perfectly healthy Regal that was in the store for almost 2 months and is in my QT eating pellets for 3 weeks, very healthy and active.

    I would hate to see him go to waste due to copper intolerance.
     
  18. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

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    I've done the yellow coris in copper with no problems. The leopards are a little more sensitive, but it should be able to be done. Personally, I would wait it out unless they stop eating all together. You can always spend a week after the copper is done to fatten them back up.
     
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  19. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

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    Temporary immunities do happen... more and more these days. That's why ick can go unnoticed for so long. Again, though, it's your choice. Good luck
     
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  20. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

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    +1 Any fish theoretically can develop immunity (or resistance) to almost any disease, including ich & velvet. However, thick mucous coat species (exs. wrasse, mandarin) have an advantage over a thin slime coat fish (exs. Acanthurus Tang, gramma) for this purpose.

    While many hobbyists see this as a reason not to QT, what they fail to see is they are actually introducing a "Typhoid Mary" into their system. A fish which never shows symptoms of disease but still serves as a carrier, capable of infecting (and killing) other fish. :eek:
     

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