How to Quarantine

[Big G]

Yep, placing them in the HOB is the best plan as it will force water through them and make the removal process much more efficient.

With velvet and other diseases so wide spread these days, I usually put fish into a cycled QT and get them eating. If all goes well I start copper by the end of day three. Too many fish coming in that have been in sub therapeutic copper and it starts wearing off quickly. And they often don't show any of the usual symptoms until it is almost or is too late. So, I get going on the copper ASAP.

 

[PeterG]

Yep, placing them in the HOB is the best plan as it will force water through them and make the removal process much more efficient.

With velvet and other diseases so wide spread these days, I usually put fish into a cycled QT and get them eating. If all goes well I start copper by the end of day three. Too many fish coming in that have been in sub therapeutic copper and it starts wearing off quickly. And they often don't show any of the usual symptoms until it is almost or is too late. So, I get going on the copper ASAP.

So you do Copper first. Do you also treat with Prazipro afterwards?

 

[Big G]

Yep. I used to start prophylactically treating with Prazipro, but after losing a whole QT to velvet in 4 days, without any visible symptoms until day 3, I learned my lesson. This sub therapeutic treating of copper and other meds, by shippers, wholesalers and LFS is not cool. So I get them eating and immediately begin slowly ramping up the copper, rather than waiting until I see symptoms. It's easier on the fish. I've had good luck with even copper sensitive fish: puffers, wrasses, anthias, etc. ramping up slowly over 7-8 days to therapeutic levels. Works for me; of course your mileage could vary. Should be even better now that I've got a Hanna High Level Copper Checker. The thing is amazing.

~ Gary

 

[HotRocks]

I also go copper, then prazi, then Metroplex. In that order.
Unless I see something that has to be dealt with differently.

 

[PeterG]

Yep. I used to start prophylactically treating with Prazipro, but after losing a whole QT to velvet in 4 days, without any visible symptoms until day 3, I learned my lesson. This sub therapeutic treating of copper and other meds, by shippers, wholesalers and LFS is not cool. So I get them eating and immediately begin slowly ramping up the copper, rather than waiting until I see symptoms. It's easier on the fish. I've had good luck with even copper sensitive fish: puffers, wrasses, anthias, etc. ramping up slowly over 7-8 days to therapeutic levels. Works for me; of course your mileage could vary. Should be even better now that I've got a Hanna High Level Copper Checker. The thing is amazing.

~ Gary

I've had two wrasses survive Copper - An Xmas Wrasse from the original emergency treatment using Cupramine (doing very well; back in DT) and a new Six Line who is still in QT w/Coppersafe.
I ramped up as you had suggested - 2ml/2xday til I reached 30ml in 25gal water.
Been reading about this new Hanna checker. Have they now certified that it is accurate in Saltwater?

I also go copper, then prazi, then Metroplex. In that order.
Unless I see something that has to be dealt with differently.

Is the Metroplex sufficient as a prophylactic for any bacteria? Do you dose Metroplex before the observation period or can it be used during?

Seems like everyone's approach varies just a bit. Now for a 2-4 week observation period. I'm not confident I'll pick up on anything beyond the most obvious signs of distress.

 

[Mini Coop]

Yep. I used to start prophylactically treating with Prazipro, but after losing a whole QT to velvet in 4 days, without any visible symptoms until day 3, I learned my lesson. This sub therapeutic treating of copper and other meds, by shippers, wholesalers and LFS is not cool. So I get them eating and immediately begin slowly ramping up the copper, rather than waiting until I see symptoms. It's easier on the fish. I've had good luck with even copper sensitive fish: puffers, wrasses, anthias, etc. ramping up slowly over 7-8 days to therapeutic levels. Works for me; of course your mileage could vary. Should be even better now that I've got a Hanna High Level Copper Checker. The thing is amazing.

~ Gary

So - I’m thinking I’ll be doing this approach from now on as well. Like you said - it is getting to the point where you can’t wait to see physical signs. I just had a McCosker through a full copper treatment and he is doing great!

So - right now I have 3 blue star wrasses. One of them has a bit of “dust” on the top of his tail and a spot on one of his side fins. Doesn’t look like ich. But wouldn’t know if it was velvet yet. Doesn’t seem to be spreading. From day one, which was two days ago, this fish seems to be acting a little bit differently than the other two. I was trying to avoid too many medications because I know how sensitive these guys can be. I don’t have a ton of experience with grasses, so their behavior is a little bit foreign to me as well. I am not as good at identifying yet when they’re acting “weird“

Can the blue stars handle copper? Right now I have copper safe on hand, which I know there is a huge debate about, however, I already ordered my Hanna checker for copper and used it very well with my McCoaker. This batch seemed to be ok.
Would love your recommendation for these guys.

 

[Mini Coop]

So - I’m thinking I’ll be doing this approach from now on as well. Like you said - it is getting to the point where you can’t wait to see physical signs. I just had a McCosker through a full copper treatment and he is doing great!

So - right now I have 3 blue star wrasses. One of them has a bit of “dust” on the top of his tail and a spot on one of his side fins. Doesn’t look like ich. But wouldn’t know if it was velvet yet. Doesn’t seem to be spreading. From day one, which was two days ago, this fish seems to be acting a little bit differently than the other two. I was trying to avoid too many medications because I know how sensitive these guys can be. I don’t have a ton of experience with grasses, so their behavior is a little bit foreign to me as well. I am not as good at identifying yet when they’re acting “weird“

Can the blue stars handle copper? Right now I have copper safe on hand, which I know there is a huge debate about, however, I already ordered my Hanna checker for copper and used it very well with my McCoaker. This batch seemed to be ok.
Would love your recommendation for these guys.

I should add the big one isn’t eating well. But the two smaller ones are doing great. I would hate to do anything to hurt them. I am half tempted to take the big one out and put her in her own tank.

 

[HotRocks]

I've had two wrasses survive Copper - An Xmas Wrasse from the original emergency treatment using Cupramine (doing very well; back in DT) and a new Six Line who is still in QT w/Coppersafe.
I ramped up as you had suggested - 2ml/2xday til I reached 30ml in 25gal water.
Been reading about this new Hanna checker. Have they now certified that it is accurate in Saltwater?


Is the Metroplex sufficient as a prophylactic for any bacteria? Do you dose Metroplex before the observation period or can it be used during?

Seems like everyone's approach varies just a bit. Now for a 2-4 week observation period. I'm not confident I'll pick up on anything beyond the most obvious signs of distress.

General cure could be used as well. It would be the same as using prazi and metro.

Metroplex doesn't cover all bacteria. But it covers Brook as well.

 

[HotRocks]

I should add the big one isn’t eating well. But the two smaller ones are doing great. I would hate to do anything to hurt them. I am half tempted to take the big one out and put her in her own tank.

I am on day 20 of therapeutic copper power at 1.75-1.85ppm. My leopards are doing great!

 

[HotRocks]

@PeterG
Hanna has not verified yet. We should be hearing from them very soon regarding the outcome of their research.

I did send a sample to a lab for my own good. It was only .02 less than my test average with the checker. I took 2 Hanna tests from the same sample that was sent to lab.

 

[Mini Coop]

I am on day 20 of theraputic copper power at 1.75-1.85ppm. My leopards are doing great!

Thanks for the feedback. Is this preventative or were they sick? Mine are in a 40 gallon, so it will take a while to ramp them up.
I also have a couple pieces of live rock in this QT for the extra bacteria and hiding spots. As long as I don’t plan on using the rock again in the main tank, I’m good to use copper in there, correct?

 

[Mini Coop]

I am on day 20 of theraputic copper power at 1.75-1.85ppm. My leopards are doing great!

Crap. Forgot to ask - are you doing the 30 days of treatment at therapeutic?

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks for the feedback. Is this preventative or were they sick? Mine are in a 40 gallon, so it will take a while to ramp them up.
I also have a couple pieces of live rock in this QT for the extra bacteria and hiding spots. As long as I don’t plan on using the rock again in the main tank, I’m good to use copper in there, correct?

Yes preventative. Which with Wrasse I would highly recommend. They are very good at hiding symptoms and carrying the parasites to your display with never showing a sign. Then BAM your tangs or whatever else you keep and entire DT are nuked...

Wrasse have a very thick mucus coat and this is not always the case, but most won't show the typical white spots associated with ich/velvet.


I think you mentioned you have a Hanna. I wouldn't be afraid of treating them with copper at all if that's the case. My fish are all eating very well, and seemingly unaffected at the 1.75ppm level. I have a regal angel and a morrish idol in with the Wrasse as well.

Rock is fine, you just have to monitor absorbtion when using copper. Then yes you will never want to use it outside of QT again.

Crap. Forgot to ask - are you doing the 30 days of treatment at therapeutic?

Yes full 30 days at the therapeutic level
I did do an extended ramp up over 6 days to get there as well which I believe helped.

 

[Mini Coop]

Yes preventative. Which with Wrasse I would highly recommend. They are very good at hiding symptoms and carrying the parasites to your display with never showing a sign. Then BAM your tangs or whatever else you keep and entire DT are nuked...

Wrasse have a very thick mucus coat and this is not always the case, but most won't show the typical white spots associated with ich/velvet.


I think you mentioned you have a Hanna. I wouldn't be afraid of treating them with copper at all if that's the case. My fish are all eating very well, and seemingly unaffected at the 1.75ppm level. I have a regal angel and a morrish idol in with the Wrasse as well.

Rock is fine, you just have to monitor absorbtion when using copper. Then yes you will never want to use it outside of QT again.



Yes full 30 days at the therapeutic level
I did do an extended ramp up over 6 days to get there as well which I believe helped.

Tonight will be 48 hours that I have had them and tonight is the first I have seen at least 2 of the three eating really well - mysis and all. I think I’ll give them one more day to really settle in and then start ramping up copper tomorrow. For a 40 gallon what do you suggest? Maybe 3 ml 2x a day?

 

[HotRocks]

Tonight will be 48 hours that I have had them and tonight is the first I have seen at least 2 of the three eating really well - mysis and all. I think I’ll give them one more day to really settle in and then start ramping up copper tomorrow. For a 40 gallon what do you suggest? Maybe 3 ml 2x a day?

My QT is also a 40, and that's exactly what I did. 6ml per day split into two 3ml (7am/7pm) doses. I did encounter absorbtion, so some days I added a couple extra ml at night just before I went to bed to compensate.

 

[Mini Coop]

My QT is also a 40, and that's exactly what I did. 6ml per day split into two 3ml (7am/7pm) doses. I did encounter absorbtion, so some days I added a couple extra ml at night just before I went to bed to compensate.

I have 2 small pieces of live rock and a huge 9x13 pan of sand in the tank. So I’m sure I will have to do that as well.

One more question. I can start copper ramping up tonight. So you think they would be ok to wait one more week? I’m going to be out of town 3 days next week and then 3 days next weekend. I think my husband will be ok checking copper. But not sure about my mom. If not, I can help them figure out how to do it.

 

[HotRocks]

I have 2 small pieces of live rock and a huge 9x13 pan of sand in the tank. So I’m sure I will have to do that as well.

One more question. I can start copper ramping up tonight. So you think they would be ok to wait one more week? I’m going to be out of town 3 days next week and then 3 days next weekend. I think my husband will be ok checking copper. But not sure about my mom. If not, I can help them figure out how to do it.

If I was you, I would feel more comfortable having them in theraputic copper while your away. If you wait, and those who are caring for the fish don't know what symptoms/signs to look for if something is going wrong... Then what?

But I understand there is risk either way. My wife is hands off with the fish. She can feed, but that's it. When I left last time during a ramp up period, I just had syringes filled, ready, and laid out with reminder notes for her and she did just fine.

 

[Mini Coop]

If I was you, I would feel more comfortable having them in theraputic copper while your away. If you wait, and those who are caring for the fish don't know what symptoms/signs to look for if something is going wrong... Then what?

But I understand there is risk either way. My wife is hands off with the fish. She can feed, but that's it. When I left last time during a ramp up period, I just had syringes filled, ready, and laid out with reminder notes for her and she did just fine.

Pre-filled syringes! Awesome idea!!! Did you have her testing with the checker or an API?

 

[HotRocks]

Pre-filled syringes! Awesome idea!!! Did you have her testing with the checker or an API?

This was well before my checker days. She didn't test. I was gone days 1-4 of ramp up. So it wasn't an issue. I would never recommend dosing without testing now, but I have learned alot since then.

Are you using copper power?

 

[Mini Coop]

This was well before my checker days. She didn't test. I was gone days 1-4 of ramp up. So it wasn't an issue. I would never recommend dosing without testing now, but I have learned alot since then.

Are you using copper power?

Coppersafe. I know there is research now that @Big G and @4FordFamily and some others are doing about coppersafe, but I just finished a treatment with it and it was true to dosage. I also have the checker to keep tabs on it as well now.